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A Fine Tuned Universe is Evidence for God

Simply_Amazing

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I would answer to use Science to help you understand the Bible & the message God has for you today. If Science supports YEC then that is the best explaination. Just like everything in Science something better may come along, but for now the best we can do is our best explanation.
[Hint: Science has completely rejected YECism both on counter evidence and a lack of evidence.]

Christian creationism is also not even close to universally accepted. At best 33% of the world is christian, and a large percentage of them accept evolution. What are you talking about? :confused:
 
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impblack

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[Hint: Science has completely rejected YECism both on counter evidence and a lack of evidence.]

Christian creationism is also not even close to universally accepted. At best 33% of the world is christian, and a large percentage of them accept evolution. What are you talking about? :confused:
He's talking that great part of the population believes/believed (until "recently" when most of the people started believing in evolution) in the creation and in that part of the bible. Christians and jews do, and i don't know about muslims but i do now that at least some of them see their religion as an advance of christianity, same way christians see themselfs as a better version of judaism. So you could say it is universaly accepted, the bible. Most of them who accept it are not scientists (or the scientists who believe it most of them don't try to mix it with science, and the ones who do aren't very successful). Most of them don't even interprete the bible literally. But yeah, universal. But it doesn't even matter, even if most of the people believed it, as i said, it isn't "universal" that long, it wasn't spread through philosophy or science but through violence and politics. So, not very good argument for several reasons.
 
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Simply_Amazing

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Ok, the Earth is not Young. Yet GAP has a very literal interpretation of Gen Ch 1 and they still accept whatever science has to say about the age of the earth.
That's one way to explain observed fact. It is also not the least likely explanation, and has almost no evidence behind it. Also, what makes a GAP theory interpretation the right one?

The above is regarding it being the best explanation. (this is majorly up for debate) Do you retract your statement about it being universal? (as it isn't accepted by other creationists, evolution believing Christians, other religion's creationists, or those non-affiliated)
 
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Wiccan_Child

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But the simple eye turns into a complex eye in many different species without common decent.
Science disagrees. The evolution of the eye is well understood, and from its original form in our distance ancestor, it has evolved multiple additions and variations throughout the various branches in the tree of life - squid have W-shaped irises to observe polarised light, for instance.

The very first law is First Cause. First Law of Thermodynamics: Energy can be changed from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed. The universe is a self contained system, the energy had to come from somewhere. All of the universe is an effect and a effect requires a cause.
The First Law of Thermodynamics is an empirical law - it is open to violation as any of the other conservation laws humans have proposed (such as parity or charge conjugation). The Law of Cause and Effect is another type of law, and that has been disproven - quantum mechanics shows us that there are indeed events that occur without a cause. It is therefore fallacious to suppose that there must have been a cause.

Then Hawking is wrong again. Of course it is only the most intelligent and most educated that say the universe is fine tuned. Because they see how finely balanced everything is. Just for one cell to communicate with another cell is complicated.
Only the most intelligent and educated? Please, I'm not interested in a numbers game. For the purposes of this discussion, the onus is on you to demonstrate that the universe is fine-tuned.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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Because Jesus is the only way to be saved. If you lived before Christ you looked forward to the sacrifice He made on the cross. If your alive after calvery then you look back to the work He did there for us.

Jesus is the way the truth and eternal life and there is no other way to be saved. Christianity does not save you, Jesus is the only one that can save you. He paid the price for our sins at Calavery so we can be saved.
So, if he died for everyone's sins, then everyone is saved, right? Or is there some other clause or caveat you're not telling us?
 
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Why would you think the universe is fine-tuned?
That was actually Francis Collins belief based on: "The fine tuning of the constants which govern nature; all of which are required to have a very specific value in order for us to be here to observe the universe." Although lots of scientists believe in a fine turned universe. Collins just uses the fine tuned universe as evidence for God.

Hawkings would argue that the fine tuned universe is a produce of the natural laws. Collins would reply if you believe in the natural laws of the universe, then you believe in God. Because the natural laws are the way that God expresses Himself. We all deal with the law of God if we believe in God or not.
 
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So, if he died for everyone's sins, then everyone is saved, right? Or is there some other clause or caveat you're not telling us?
The word is "Whosover" Whosoever is willing let them come.

"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that hears say, Come. And let him that is thirsty come. And whoever will, let him take the water of life freely." rev 22 17

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
 
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Non sequitur

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Because the natural laws are the way that God expresses Himself. We all deal with the law of God if we believe in God or not.

You could have simply said, "Because God loves you so much, he made the natural laws for you to enjoy", and it would carry the exact same weight.


This "trump card", without evidence, sure is getting annoying.

It's claim after claim...
 
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Nostromo

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That was actually Francis Collins belief based on: "The fine tuning of the constants which govern nature; all of which are required to have a very specific value in order for us to be here to observe the universe." Although lots of scientists believe in a fine turned universe. Collins just uses the fine tuned universe as evidence for God.

Hawkings would argue that the fine tuned universe is a produce of the natural laws. Collins would reply if you believe in the natural laws of the universe, then you believe in God. Because the natural laws are the way that God expresses Himself. We all deal with the law of God if we believe in God or not.
But you do realise that whether or not it actually was fine tuned, it would always look like it was to someone observing it?
 
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Wiccan_Child

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The word is "Whosover" Whosoever is willing let them come.

"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that hears say, Come. And let him that is thirsty come. And whoever will, let him take the water of life freely." rev 22 17

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Ah. So, even though God died for my sins, I'm still not saved, because I'm not a Christian? Why is belief a prerequisite for salvation? Did Jesus die for my sins or not?
 
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Wiccan_Child

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I do not know if your saved or not. That is between you and God.
You have to work it out with Him, that has nothing to do with me.
On the contrary, you seem to have way more information that little old me. What does one need to do to be saved? Apparently, whosoever believes in Jesus will have everlasting life. What does that mean, exactly? Do I have to believe Jesus existed?
 
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But you do realise that whether or not it actually was fine tuned, it would always look like it was to someone observing it?
You have to talk to Science about the fine tuned univese. From what I understand they have everything balanced within a billioneth now a days. If it is more then a Billioneth off, it will not work.

With nano technology you can filter air and water within a billioneth.

"With over 15 years of Experience, Ampac-USA Introduce the All New SeaPro™ Reverse OsmosisSeawater Desalination systems also known as Watermakers for the Marine Industry converting Sea Water to Pure Drinking Water for Yachts and commercial Freightliners worldwide."

SW3000SM.jpg
 
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RareLight

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No one can prove that there is no God, though we often hear this claim from atheists in name of science. But this proof simply isn't there. What they can disprove is the narrow view of creationism that claims the earth and universe are merely 6000 years old. But this is only one view of creationism. The other views of creationism support an old earth and universe. Old earth creationism has support in scripture and in science. (see RareUniverse,org)

The fact is that no verified theory can explain what caused the big bang, and the existence of the universe. No scientist can claim to understand why the universe is fine tuned for life. No one can explain how life arose on earth as soon as it was environmentally possible. (After the late heavy bombardment ended 3.8 billion years ago.)

Evolution is not evidence against God, since there are many who find evolution to be compatible with the bible. (According to a 2010 Gallop poll, 38% of Americans believe that God guided evolution in the creation of man.) Evolution only works when life already exists. The origin of life is still a mystery in science. So whether or not you accept evolution, it makes no difference for the question of God.

God has not been disproved, but to the contrary, there exists much support for His existence within the findings of modern science. (See some of the evidence for God at www,rareuniverse,org)
 
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AV1611VET

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:wave:
God has not been disproved, but to the contrary, there exists much support for His existence within the findings of modern science. (See some of the evidence for God at www,rareuniverse,org)
You started and ended this post alright; but in the middle, you did some hefty advertising for evolution.

What does God's existence have to do with evolution?

Did you make this post just so you could propagate evolution within the context of God and the Bible?
 
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