A few questions

[seashale76]

going back to one of my previous posts, what about ancient greek mythology that was before christianity? Do christians think that this was just a set of stories? For example in Homers epic poetry, or even roman mythology in the Inferno. I would say that those mythologies have died out completely by this time, but do you guys think people did believe Zeus, Athena, etc with all of their heart? I guess I'm just confused as to what Christians believed there was before jesus (religion wise).

I think that a lot of mythology as we know it, was perhaps, based on real events and people. There were people who truly believed in their pantheon of gods, and those who didn't really believe in them, but professed to as it was convenient. However, I do think that all ancient non-Jewish religions contain elements of truth to them. I believe that those people are judged based on what they did with the knowledge they had.

 

[seashale76]

thanks!

Another question, what do christians believe gods purpose was when he made everything?

We are made in the likeness and image of God, to commune with God. We are united to God by participating in the divine energies.

 

[Eclyps19]

thanks seashale!

 

[seashale76]

I see some people refer to Jesus as god, yet I always thought he was supposed to be the son of god or something along those lines.

The hypostatic union; Christ is fully God and fully man. Christ is also the Word of God, which was there in the beginning. Christ is God, part of the Holy Trinity.

This may or may not be the best place to find the answer to this question, but I'll go for it anyways.

One of my favorite books is Inferno, part of the Divine Comedy. For those who have read it, how is it different than todays Christian hell? I believe it was written around the 1200s, so Christianity had been well established by then. Do christians believe that lucifer used to be an angel that wanted to be better than god, so god sent him down to hell (or something similar to that)? Dante describes the bottom circle of hell full of ice with lucifer trapped in the middle - the worst sinners hanging from different mouths of lucifer. How much of this is made up from Dantes imagination, and how much was taken from Christian beliefs? Does modern day hell have circles for different severity of sinners, or do all sinners go to the exact same place? In the Inferno, different sins are given different punishments. Is that how it works in Christianity?

thanks

Dante's Inferno, while an interesting read, isn't what the Church believes regarding hell. You've got hades and gehena (the lake of fire). Think of the essence and energies of God; with God being Love and His presence being like fire. How one endures this fire has everything to do with how they were tempered in this life, just like the three righteous youths in the fiery furnace joyfully walked around unharmed in the fire, so did others who didn't love God perish just being near the fire. The fire didn't change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_in...tern_Orthodoxy

"For many ancient Christians, Hell was the same "place" as Heaven: living in the presence of God and directly experiencing God's love. Whether this was experienced as pleasure or torment depended on one's disposition towards God. St. Isaac of Syria wrote in Mystic Treatises: "... those who find themselves in Hell will be chastised by the scourge of love. How cruel and bitter this torment of love will be! For those who understand that they have sinned against love, undergo greater suffering than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart, which has sinned against love, is more piercing than any other pain. It is not right to say that the sinners in Hell are deprived of the love of God ... But love acts in two ways, as suffering of the reproved, and as joy in the blessed!" This ancient view is still the doctrine of the Eastern Orthodox Church."

 

[paperneck]

there are inconsistancies some christians deny this, i don't.

for example: the story of the gentile woman who told jesus "even the dogs eat the crumbs from under the table" is told in two of the gospels, and identified as being from a different country in each.

in luke, and acts1 it is written that Judas kept the silver the elders gave him for betraying Jesus, but in Matthew it is said that he gave the silver back. Both of these stories give an explanation to a location known as "The Field of Blood".

the book of john begins "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with god, and the word was god."

For me i feel that the bible is inspiration for the bible is devine, but since it was written by men much of it is imperfect. Many people associate the Word of God with the bible itself, but for me i consider the word of god to be all creation and the laws that override all creation. I consider these laws to be both the laws nature, physics, etc. The bible also tells us that "the laws of God are written on the hearts of men." which some people associate with the conscience, but i feel it goes far deeper than that, to the point that if we can learn to love without any sense of self, or desire, we can see clearly what god wants us to see, and thus we learn how to move with him.

the gospel of John also says "The word became flesh and made his dwelling among us" this of course refers to Jesus, or Yahushua, or Jesu or Jeshua (take your pick). It gets very complicated when you take something as vast and infinite as God and try to isolate him to a single point(a human body) and then try to understand how god had to obide by our limitations. Anyone who takes the Gospels litteraly has to agree that Jesus felt pain, and that he either was afraid, or pretended to be afraid. Some people take Jesus' humanity as evidence that he was not actually God, but rather the literal Son of God. My belief is that Jesus was God, but he had to enter the role of a man, and embrace the parameters a human body presents. I believe if God came to the earth as a man it makes sense for him to be afraid in the moments before his death, because it is impossible for a human to exist without a sense of fear. The point of God being a man and demonstrating fear is that he shows how to overcome fear, and presents us with the truth of what bravery actually is. He simultaneously shows us what it means to be humble, so much so that we arrive at the point where we no longer exist in the sense of I or Me, but we simply become one who exists and fulfills by following this example. Honestly Jesus might not have been afraid at all, but simply meant to teach by example. The example i gave of the caananite woman he refered to as a dog is a common example of where Jesus didn't exactly mean what he said, but meant to teach his followers by being challenged.

 

[dead2self]

I'm just going to answer the questions without getting involved with any of the discussions here just incase you want yet another view. BTW, I'm a fundamentalist Baptist. I'm also a Christian Hedonist (yes there's a good explanation behind that one).


General Questions

1) Can homosexuals really be Christian? Doesn't that go against Christianity?
Performing any homosexual acts, either male-male or female-female is indeed sinful, but no more so than many other sins. Now with this sin, or any other, if you are living in it unrepentantly, I do not believe you can be a Christian. Keep in mind that all passages labelling this as sinful behaviour are hotly debated by many with more liberal theology.


2) How do you know the bible is written by god?
The Scripture is self-authenticating. But after all the proofs are laid on the table, it comes down to faith.


3) Can people actually hear god talk? If so, would you consider a person who hears voices from a seemingly unknown source crazy?
That's some very thin ice over very deep water my friend. Yes, God can talk to people. But one must excercise extreme caution here. FOr so can Satan. One must allways test any supposed message from God against Scripture. As for them being crazy, perhaps occasionally. But I think that more often than not, thosee we lable as crazy are suffering from spiritual oppression.

4) How has Christianity changed so much since the time of the Romans? It would seem that it would be written and explained properly the first time. Who decides what gets changed in the religion?
The sinful desires of man is the problem. God's word is perfect, man's actions concerning it are emphatically not. Really, the Bible decides what gets changed, or should in true Christianity. However, historically, men have modified or removed doctrine to suit their own passions. Or they have added tradition to scripture for their own power. Nowadays, the trend continues. Rather than using the Bible as an outline of Christianity, there are those today would tear it apart and twist it to justify their own sins.

5) Forgive my ignorance, but what is the difference between the New and Old Testimate? Were they both written at the same time/by the same person?
Both testaments were written by many people. The Old Testment was written in the several thousand years preceeding the first comming of Christ. The last book was written about 400 years before Christ. After Christ came, the New Testament was written within a hundred years of His birth. The OT deals with God's dealings with the Nnation of Israel and points to the comming of Christ while the NT dealswith the life and work of Christ and what that means for us now.

6) Is Noah and the arc supposed to be read as a true event? I know most Christians believe the flood, so I'm assuming this is a yes?
Yes it is. Interestingly enough, though it sounds far fetched, calculations show that an ark the size describe in Genesis would actually hold all the animals and feed for them while still leaving plenty of room for Noah and family.


Personal questions

1) How do you know the Christian god is real but not any of the other gods in other religions?
Faith and evidence. The Bible has proven itself to me time and time again. I have no doubts about it. Therefore, my belief is that God is real. Now seeng as how Christianity claims absolute and exclusive truth, all other Gods are by necessirt false.

2) Do you think that if you were born in the Saudi Arabia you would follow the Islamic faith?
I would have to start, but would have converted. Just like I was bon into an ungodly country and converted from that to Christianity. God elects those whom her will save and there are no cultural or religious borders that will stand before His call.

I notice that you added a question, on why God created everything. Well, He did it for His glory to put it simply. The purpose of all creation is to more fully display God's ultimate glory.

 

[Eclyps19]

Thanks dead and paperneck.


dead, I have a question regarding this.

I notice that you added a question, on why God created everything. Well, He did it for His glory to put it simply. The purpose of all creation is to more fully display God's ultimate glory.

So you're saying god created everything so he could show off his ultimate power to the things he created, simply by creating them? It seems like he would have no reason to show off if he's the only thing around. Unless I'm mistaken and there were things around (angels and such) before he created the universe.

----- additional question

Repenting seems like a pretty poor way to redeem ones self. Could an individual kill a ton of people (lets just use hitler or saddam as examples), and then repent on their deathbed and go to heaven?

thanks again, everyone

 

[ebia]

Hello everyone. I'll be brutally honest - I don't know a whole lot about modern Christianity, and I have never read the bible. I am, however, very interested in different religions. I will most likely be writing my final thesis on religion when I get my BA in English. Religion absolutely fascinates me, but my knowledge is pretty much limited to ancient religions.

So I have a few quick questions that i'd like some responses on. I've broken them up into 2 categories. If you don't want to answer the personal questions, no problem. If you do, then great!

General Questions

1) Can homosexuals really be Christian? Doesn't that go against Christianity?

All Christians are flawed, imperfect, people. Jesus came to reconcile us to God, not to call a people who were already fine as they are.

2) How do you know the bible is written by god?

It wasn't. It was written by people inspired by God.

3) Can people actually hear god talk?
If so, would you consider a person who hears voices from a seemingly unknown source crazy?

For most people, most of the time anyway, God speaking to us isn't that sort of thing. In any case the distinction between God speaking to someone, and psychotic voices in ones head, may be a blurred line to tell but it is one that all but the most militant rationalists amongst mental-health professionals acknowledge.

4) How has Christianity changed so much since the time of the Romans?

The world has changed quite a bit, and Christianity is incarnated in that world, so it must look different. If you want a precise answer you'll need to spell out what difference(s) you had in mind.

It would seem that it would be written and explained properly the first time.

How do you "explain properly" something that is completely beyond what any of us can completely get, and something that has to be constantly learned, explored,... People might like it all encapsulated in a simple unambiguous concept that everyone can get their head around quickly and easily, but nothing worth learning is like that.

5) Forgive my ignorance, but what is the difference between the New and Old Testimate? Were they both written at the same time/by the same person?

Already covered adequately by other posters.

6) Is Noah and the arc supposed to be read as a true event? I know most Christians believe the flood, so I'm assuming this is a yes?

True, yes. Historically factually precise - that's not what it's about. The Noah story follows several stories that tell about how humanity has rebelled and hence creation has gone wrong. In the story, God floods the world to wipe out evil, saving one righteous family to carry on creation after the flood. But the punchline is that immediately after God's promise not to do it again Noah abuses God's gift of vineculture and winemaking, gets drunk, and it all goes wrong again. The story is an explanation of why evil cannot be simply wiped out. It then leads immediately into the story of Abraham - the story that takes up the rest of the bible - the story of how God will put the world right, not by washing away evil by force in the flood (which will not work) but by washing away evil in the self-sacrificial love of Christ (which will).

Personal questions

1) How do you know the Christian god is real but not any of the other gods in other religions?

If Christianity is right about its God, then that God is unique - there are no others.

2) Do you think that if you were born in the Saudi Arabia you would follow the Islamic faith?

Maybe.

 

[ebia]

Another question for everyone. According to the bible, did the ancient greeks and such exist? From what I've heard, most believe that the earth is only 6,000 years old. The pre-hellenic period (supposedly) started around 2000 BC, which would make it about 4,000 years ago. According to the bible, when were people first put on this earth?

The bible doesn't spell that out. Some people have inferred 6,000 years by assuming that the whole thing is modernist style chronology and adding together the generations listed. But that's not what the text is about.

Was there Christianity before jesus was born or crucified?

There have always been people who (imperfectly) put their faith in God's way - eg Abraham - but the name 'Christianity' wasn't invented until a decade or two after Jesus' death and gets all of about one mention in the entire bible. In fact a more biblical name for 'Christianity' is simply "The Way'.

Repenting seems like a pretty poor way to redeem ones self. Could an individual kill a ton of people (lets just use hitler or saddam as examples), and then repent on their deathbed and go to heaven?

Repenting, in the sense Jesus uses it, isn't just "feel a bit guity about being naughty" but "give up your way of doing things and turn to mine". And that is what it's all about - getting us, and through us all creation, back on God's plan.

 

[ebia]

but the difference is that a painter does indeed paint, but that's not all he's there for. A painter sells his work, makes a living, does other activities. It seems like there would have to be some other purpose other than to just "create". If not, than why bother creating?

Maybe I shouldn't be anthropomorphisizing god though... do christians believe god is literally a man, or is god more of an unknown being?

God is god. There is one God, but that God is three persons in relationship - "Father", "Son" (ie Jesus) and "Holy Spirit". Jesus is both fully God and (from his conception to Mary onwards) full human - he brings creation and God together in one person.

One of my favorite books is Inferno, part of the Divine Comedy. For those who have read it, how is it different than todays Christian hell? I believe it was written around the 1200s, so Christianity had been well established by then.

Dante's picture of hell (and heaven for that matter) owes more to medieval fantasy than the bible. Dante didn't actually originate that type of vision, but he was one of the main popularisers of it. Sadly his pictures have coloured much Christian thinking on the subject ever since, to the exclusion of a more biblical view.[

The New Testament itself is much more interested in God's plan for humanity and creation than the alternative. It acknowledges that there is an alternative - that people who decline to be part of God's renewal will be thrown away like chaff on the winnowing fire (whoosh, and it's gone) or like prunings on a bonfire, or like rubbish on Jerusalem's ever smoldering rubbish heap (Gehenna).

Another question, what do christians believe gods purpose was when he made everything?

It's God's nature to be an extravagant creator (which is why we, made in his image, also like to create stuff for its own sake) and to enjoy relationship (which is the concept at the heart of Trinity).

 

[dead2self]

So you're saying god created everything so he could show off his ultimate power to the things he created, simply by creating them? It seems like he would have no reason to show off if he's the only thing around. Unless I'm mistaken and there were things around (angels and such) before he created the universe.

This is a difficult topic to explain, as it deals with God's motives. But I'll give it a shot. Before creation, God existed as the Trinity. The three persons of the Godhead were in perfect unity and entirely satisfied. God lacked for nothing. But He did have an overabundance of love. God is, afterall, love. Now, to shower this infinte love on others, He needed to create them. So it could be said that He created the universe to love. But going deeper, the truest love is to do what is best for someone. Beholding God's glory is what is best for us. So in this way, the display of His glory was the cause for creation. God is consumed with the display of His glory so that those who love Him may more fully enjoy Him. That is what love is. That is why we were created. So that we may glorify God, and see His glory in the rest of creation and thereby more fully experience His awesome love for us.

As for the angels, while I do think they were there before the universe was created, they were still created so a part of creation. There was a point where God was the only One there.

Repenting seems like a pretty poor way to redeem ones self. Could an individual kill a ton of people (lets just use hitler or saddam as examples), and then repent on their deathbed and go to heaven?

According to man's justice, yes, it does seem like a poor plan. Live like the devil, and say sorry before you die. But let's take a closer look at just what is involved in the word repenting and why it has any effect.

First off, let's look at what saving repentance is. To repent is not simply to say you're sorry. It is actually to turn away from your sins, to the point where you die to yourself (hence my username). This means that you hate your sin, that you come to the end of where you can put up with your own self. You must deny your own nature, and die to it, being crucified with Christ. You need to do this and trust in Jesus for your salvation. Only then will you be born again. After dying to self, you are rasied as a new creation. God replaces your heart of stone with a heart of flesh. What you previously loved you will hate, what you previously hated you will love. Repenting in faith completely transforms you.

Now, that is all fineand well, but without a good reason why even genuine repentance can wash away sins, it is still not just. That is where Jesus Christ on the cross comes in. This is a problem specifically dealt with in the Bible. God's word states that a one who justifed the wicked is an abomination. So in chapter 3 of Romans, Paul explains that Jesus was displayed as a propitiation for the disply of God's righteousness so that He could be both just and the justifer of those who have faith. Justcie demands that every sin be punished. And every sin is indeed punished. Either we bear the punishement ourselves, or Chirst bore it on the cross in our stead. Now, if one kills millions as Hitler did, or simply lies on his tax retrun, he has commited sin. The punishement demanded for that affront on the glory of God is death. The amount of sin is irrelavent to salvation as the blood of Jesus is infinately valuable. His sacrifice is enough to cover all sins. The reason it is not unfair for Hitler to be forgiven, is that if he had repented, every sin, every murder would have been paid for by Christ. When you repent in faith, you are trusting in Jesus' work on the cross in bearing your sins and taking your punishment.