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It seems to me that you don't know much about the Catholic Church. Some of the nonsense peddled by Protestants about the CC is as appalling as it is laughable.In short, the whole routine is an illusion
Timothyu makes a habit of it. He avoids rational discussion and instead specializes in, like you said, "meaningless work salad". That's why I ignore most of his posts.you completely avoided the questions I asked.
Sadly, you're still not making sense. Why would Jesus begin a sentence with, "And I say to you that you are Peter" (Matt 16:18), if nothing in that sentence applies to Peter?Sadly you leave out 16 and 17 which gives it context.
Great point. I believe Jesus was a great teacher not prone to confusing His words. Why did he not start his sentence with "I am Jesus" instead of renaming Simon in the same sentence saying: "And I say to you that you are Rock (Peter) and upon this Rock I will build My Church?"Sadly, you're still not making sense. Why would Jesus begin a sentence with, "And I say to you that you are Peter" (Matt 16:18), if nothing in that sentence applies to Peter?
Simon, you are rock, the truth you have spoken will be the foundation the church of the people. People who understand that truth only comes from God and not the governments or institutions of self serving mankindWhy would Jesus begin a sentence with, "And I say to you that you are Peter" (Matt 16:18), if nothing in that sentence applies to Peter?
But that's not what Jesus said.Simon, you are rock, the truth you have spoken will be the foundation the church of the people. People who understand that truth only comes from God and not the governments or institutions of self serving mankind
That is exactly the point He was making when he asked the apostles that question. Pretty hard to miss.But that's not what Jesus said.
Certainly. A person experiences that fullness in any church that has the Holy Spirit. Some churches will leave you as empty as you came in.Which verse says "These are the necessary truths ..."? How do you know what the "necessary truths" are?
Eph 1:22-23 says the Church is the body and "fullness" of Christ. Is your church the "fullness" of Christ?
Sounds like you're saying the Holy Spirit has not or cannot led anyone to "all truth" (John 16:13). In that case, you're contradicting the words of Jesus.Well, have any of us reached the pinnacle of faith and knowledge yet?
Says who? Jesus said the HS would lead us to "all truth", so "all truth" must exist somewhere in this world. Evidently, you have no idea at all where "all truth" can be found ... you don't seem to even believe that it can be found.The idea that any church will then contain all the truth is in error.
You obviously don't understand what "all truth" means in John 16:13, which relates to DOCTRINAL truth. It doesn't mean individual members of the Church will behave perfectly and be sinless in this life.To claim your particular Church contains all truth is just as problematic, since the RCC has a very long list of abuses and false doctrines down through history.
All truth referred to the Gospel of the Kingdom alone, definitely not to the doctrines of man.Jesus said the HS would lead us to "all truth", so "all truth" must exist somewhere in this world. Evidently, you have no idea at all where "all truth" can be found
What good is doctrinal truth if it doesn't change the individual?You obviously don't understand what "all truth" means in John 16:13, which relates to DOCTRINAL truth. It doesn't mean individual members of the Church will behave perfectly and be sinless in this life.
Jesus is the way and the truth. A church that gets in the way of people coming directly to Jesus is blocking the truth. Putting priests in between, putting prayers to a mere person in between, losing people in the rituals instead of leading them to the cross....did you ever think that perhaps all truth here isn't about the doctrines that aren't central, but about something much deeper? The heart of God isn't for us to understand him perfectly, but to know him intimately.Says who? Jesus said the HS would lead us to "all truth", so "all truth" must exist somewhere in this world. Evidently, you have no idea at all where "all truth" can be found ... you don't seem to even believe that it can be found.
I don't believe this is true due to these versesEach of us stands alone before God at the Judgment seat of Christ:
Each of us stands alone before God at the Judgment seat of Christ:
no pastor/priest/church-council will stand-in our place.
2 Cor 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
So then:
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God Himself is "a God of Truth"
Deut 32:
3 For I proclaim the name of the Lord:
Ascribe greatness to our God.
4 He is the Rock, His work is perfect;
For all His ways are justice,
A God of truth and without injustice;
Righteous and upright is He.
He made Himself known to us through Christ (God the Son)
John 1:
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
... 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
Our source of Truth is Christ
John 14:6 "the WAY the Truth and the life"
And therefore the Holy Spirit
John 16 "The Spirit of TRUTH will guide you into all Truth"
1 John 5:6 This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
1 John 2:27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.
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Our infallible standard of truth is the Word of God. And we measure all doctrine by that standard:
Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - WERE SO"
2 Tim 3:16 "ALL scripture is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine AND correction"
Gal 1:6-9 "if WE (Apostles) or an angel from heaven brings to you a gospel other than what you have already received - let him be accursed!"
The Holy Spirit gave us Scripture
2 Pet 1: 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. (NKJV)
20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. (NASB)
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Your argument in the OP is that with only God and His Word as our source of Truth - would we not then agree that we could never have any real assurance of what Truth is - and our answer is "no we do not agree".
And of course the whole argument in the "protesting Catholics" history of the reformation is - "yes" we do have assurance of pure doctrine by relying on God alone, scripture alone. And we join in fellowship with like-minded Christians in that regard - all benefiting from the gifts God has given to the "body of Christ" via the Holy Spirit.
Still it does not change the fact that each one stands alone before at that judgment seat - no historic flawed council will be there taking our place.
I don't believe this is true due to these verses
1 Corinthians 4:5 (KJV)
[5] Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
Luke 8:17 (KJV)
[17] For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.
" For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?"
My reply was specific to what I quoted... you said we stand alone and according to the verses I quoted refute that idea...I don't see any "either-or" conflict between the texts I quoted and you omitted ... vs the ones you quoted
My reply was specific to what I quoted... you said we stand alone and according to the verses I quoted refute that idea...
2 Cor 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
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