A few questions for my fellow Calvinists

[Sultan Of Swing]

Hey there. I attend a Reformed Anglican church, and Calvinism seems pretty scriptural to me.

A long time ago when I was Arminian I found the idea quite distasteful, and using verses like 1 Tim 2:4 and my own standards and ideas of what God should be like I justified my position.

Recently though, I have found myself more reliant on the Scriptures (I was burned quite badly after nearly becoming Catholic a few months ago, I've lost trust in anything other than what is found in my Bible).

Wrestling with the Scriptures honestly, considering verses like John 6:37 and Romans 9 made me realise that it is indeed up to God, not us, it is He who is sovereign, not us. And when I submitted myself to the Scriptures I found that it was not a repugnant idea but the complete opposite. It brought a sense of awe and great reverence that God chose me, who deserved Hell, and that I could be secure in my salvation because it was up to God, not up to me. The assurance that God is in control of everything. The incredible holiness of God, the beauty of His holiness and God's commitment to His glory, and our own desire to see it and experience it.

So anyway, enough about me, I've got some questions bugging me for my fellow Calvinists that I'd hope you could help me out with.

1. God's sovereignty over all. I've read John Piper talk about how God is in control and wills every molecule in the universe, and Spurgeon I think who writes about how all the dust-mites in the air move according to God's sovereign will. My question is though, how does this apply to our thoughts? Does God predestines every one of our thoughts? Are my thoughts truly mine or part of God's sovereign will, that He is willing me to think?

2. Furthermore, while I can understand God's purpose in bringing good and bad things into one's life, what about all the very mundane things? Was it God's sovereign will that I had my shower at 8:30am and not 8:40am? Was it God's sovereign will I got to an appointment late? Are there reasons for everything?

3. If a person acts according to his nature, and men who do not know Christ have sinful natures and are unable to choose God, why do they have responsibility for their actions deserving of Hell? If a person is unable to do anything else but rebel and sin against God, why are they blamed for it? They may choose to sin, but that is because they were born with a sinful nature, right? Why are they held accountable for a nature they cannot change? They are dead in their sins, why are they blamed for that and given eternal punishment? As I'm writing this the words of Romans 9 are echoing in my mind, haha (Who are you o man...) but just wondering if anyone has an answer to this.

4. Why does God not predestine all of the elect to become Calvinists if that is the truth? Why do they remain in all sorts of different denominations and systems? Why would God let some of the greatest preachers like John Wesley remain staunchly Arminian and not reveal to him the true light of the Scriptures?

5. If Christians, the elect, are new creations, and are freed from slavery to sin and have become sons and daughters of God, why does it not seem evident in the world? Why do Christians around the world often live like the people around them, and non-believers often seem to do similar amounts of charity as Christians do? If Christians are free from bondage to sin and are new creations, where do we see that in the world around us? Why does the Church seem so mundane and ordinary, just like everyone else, and not the radical free-from-sin people they are meant to be?

6. When regeneration of a sinner happens, are they merely enabled to choose God and they naturally will choose God, or is their very will forced into believing and trusting in God?

EDIT: And a seventh question: Why do I often not feel like a new creation? I am well aware my faith does not and should not rest on feelings and emotions, but oftentimes I feel as much as a slave to sin as everyone else. I have no memory of my sinful life before being saved to compare with my life now, because I have honestly known Jesus for as long as I can remember and believed and trusted in Him, formally accepting Him as my Lord from a young age. Sometimes it even makes me doubt whether I am truly saved but I know in my heart that I love Jesus and accept Him as Lord, I desire to see His glory and am so thankful for what God has done for me in Christ.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Okay, since no one has replied yet, I'm guessing my post was too long? lol

I may have to split this into seven different topics, haha.

 

[Inkfingers]

Hey there. I attend a Reformed Anglican church, and Calvinism seems pretty scriptural to me.

It it

Are my thoughts truly mine or part of God's sovereign will, that He is willing me to think?

God makes all occur; including your thoughts, yes. He is sovereign of ALL that happens.

Was it God's sovereign will that I had my shower at 8:30am and not 8:40am?

Yes.

If a person acts according to his nature, and men who do not know Christ have sinful natures and are unable to choose God, why do they have responsibility for their actions deserving of Hell?

The universe is God's forge, through which he refines some and casts others into the recycle bin.

Why are they held accountable for a nature they cannot change?

God is a being of order, and he works through orderly ways in the universe, which make some saveable and others not. And no, this is no more a limit on God's power than is his inability to make 1+1 equal 648.

Why does God not predestine all of the elect to become Calvinists if that is the truth?

It is necessary for his purpose that he does such. Remember, we do not deserve salvation; it's not a debt that he owes us, but an act of charity that he saves some.

If Christians, the elect, are new creations, and are freed from slavery to sin and have become sons and daughters of God, why does it not seem evident in the world? Why do Christians around the world often live like the people around them, and non-believers often seem to do similar amounts of charity as Christians do?

We are finite and mortal creatures, and so our finite mortal minds forget things and are subject to illness. Being saved doesn't mean "never stumble".

When regeneration of a sinner happens, are they merely enabled to choose God and they naturally will choose God, or is their very will forced into believing and trusting in God?

Both. Salvation works through the reason (its not hypnotism) but it is not something that we can refuse to accept. We can however forget it from time to time, and stumble.

Why do I often not feel like a new creation?

Same reason as above; we are mortal and finite beings. Only God is perfect, so to expect perfection of his finite creations is faulty thinking bordering on idolatry.

Hope that helps.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Okay, since no one has replied yet, I'm guessing my post was too long? lol

I may have to split this into seven different topics, haha.

My thoughts, exactly.

I would take a stab at some answers if there were one question at a time.

 

[hedrick]

I’m actually a liberal Reformed person, so I don’t quite accept TULIP. But I’m going to try and give you a traditional Calvinist answer.

There’s one piece of background that’s common to several question. Calvinists generally believe in “compatibilism,” the idea that the same thing can both be part of God’s plan, and a human choice. Calvin uses the example of the story from the beginning of Job, where Sabeans steal from Job’s people. He says that this event can be understood on three levels. On one level, it is the decision of the Sabeans, motivated by a desire for loot. On the next level, it’s part of Satan’s plan, intended to show up God. But ultimately it’s part of God’s plan, intended to vindicate his justice. All three of these explanations are true. When we make a decision, it’s our decision. God doesn’t force us to do it, usually. But everything we do is part of his plan. He does more than just forsee it. He chooses it, so he’s responsible. But still, his plan generally works through what are called “secondary causes,” i.e. the normal course of human life.

1. God's sovereignty over all. I've read John Piper talk about how God is in control and wills every molecule in the universe, and Spurgeon I think who writes about how all the dust-mites in the air move according to God's sovereign will. My question is though, how does this apply to our thoughts? Does God predestines every one of our thoughts? Are my thoughts truly mine or part of God's sovereign will, that He is willing me to think?

They are yours. They are part of his plan, but they’re your thoughts.

2. Furthermore, while I can understand God's purpose in bringing good and bad things into one's life, what about all the very mundane things? Was it God's sovereign will that I had my shower at 8:30am and not 8:40am? Was it God's sovereign will I got to an appointment late? Are there reasons for everything?

Again, it’s part of his plan. That doesn’t mean that he had some earth-shaking purpose for every event. You made the choices that led you to be late. Maybe it fits into his plan and has some far-off consequence that we can’t see yet, but I’m not convinced that every event necessarily has that kind of meaning.

3. If a person acts according to his nature, and men who do not know Christ have sinful natures and are unable to choose God, why do they have responsibility for their actions deserving of Hell? If a person is unable to do anything else but rebel and sin against God, why are they blamed for it? They may choose to sin, but that is because they were born with a sinful nature, right? Why are they held accountable for a nature they cannot change? They are dead in their sins, why are they blamed for that and given eternal punishment? As I'm writing this the words of Romans 9 are echoing in my mind, haha (Who are you o man...) but just wondering if anyone has an answer to this.

It’s precisely the actions are in accordance with our nature that we are most responsible for. If someone else forced us to do something, we aren’t responsible. If we have a moment of insanity and do something not typical of us, it’s temporary insanity. I know we don’t choose what we are. But it’s still what we are that is the main issue. Heaven is to be a place where there’s no evil. By its nature it can’t include people who are opposed to God. They will inevitably do things that won’t work in heaven.

Any theology in which God is omnipotent is gong to have this problem. I think you’re going to have to live with it unless you accept “open theology.” If God is in charge, he could save anyone he wants. I’m not sure that ethically there’s any real difference between knowing that his plan is going to result in people who are evil and not doing anything about it, and saying that he has actually chosen to have such people. The fact is, God has chosen or at least allowed some people to reject him. Why does the world have evil? There are all kinds of answers proposed. I think they’re at best guesses. I hope when we see God face to face we’ll be able to ask him. But I don’t see any way to avoid this. Whatever your theology, people are what they are for reasons that they didn’t choose.

I’m not answering 4. I don’t know. But I also don't think God is as focused on specifics of theology as we often are. I see no sign of it in either Jesus or Paul. One God, sure. Jesus is the Son of God, sure. But there's no explicit theory like Calvinism or Arminianism taught in Scripture. Paul says lots of things that may imply something, but he nowhere explicitly mandates a specific view on how we reconcile how responsibility with God's control, or makes that a requirement for Christian fellowship.

5. If Christians, the elect, are new creations, and are freed from slavery to sin and have become sons and daughters of God, why does it not seem evident in the world? Why do Christians around the world often live like the people around them, and non-believers often seem to do similar amounts of charity as Christians do? If Christians are free from bondage to sin and are new creations, where do we see that in the world around us? Why does the Church seem so mundane and ordinary, just like everyone else, and not the radical free-from-sin people they are meant to be?

Of course we aren’t fully free from sin in this world. But the people in my church do actually seem to show God’s love, in the usual imperfect human way. I think we are in fact a bit of an oasis from the world. I read in various places in CF all kinds of horrifying stories about churches that are dominated by gossip and backbiting, legalistic churches, etc. I can only say that’s not been my experience, nor is it true of other churches I know. Maybe this is a difference between relatively liberal churches, that tend to emphasize how we treat each. I just don’t know.

6. When regeneration of a sinner happens, are they merely enabled to choose God and they naturally will choose God, or is their very will forced into believing and trusting in God?

I’m not sure this is the right question to ask. See my explanation of compatibilism. We’re not forced in the sense of someone who holds a gun on us. We really do make a choice. Our wills are changed by the Holy Spirit regenerating us, so that we will make that choice.

: And a seventh question: Why do I often not feel like a new creation? I am well aware my faith does not and should not rest on feelings and emotions, but oftentimes I feel as much as a slave to sin as everyone else. I have no memory of my sinful life before being saved to compare with my life now, because I have honestly known Jesus for as long as I can remember and believed and trusted in Him, formally accepting Him as my Lord from a young age. Sometimes it even makes me doubt whether I am truly saved but I know in my heart that I love Jesus and accept Him as Lord, I desire to see His glory and am so thankful for what God has done for me in Christ.

Read through Matthew or Luke (which have the most teachings from Jesus) and look carefully at the various parables of judgement. What criterion does God use? I’m not aware of any teaching in which God looked for people who are free from sin. He looked for people who helped each other, and in the parables of judgement it’s always people who abused others who are judged. In my opinion the sign of a Christian isn’t that they are free from sin, but that they make a difference for other people. Sins can of course be a significant barrier to that. But they will know we are Christians by our love.

As I noted, I’m a liberal Christian. Part of that is that I think many churches have too much of an emphasis on things like sexual thoughts, who does what to whom, and are envisioning the Church as a place where no one violates a fairly small set of rules. I think that’s why so many people say that their churches aren’t any better than the world outside. Who wants to be part of a place that makes us focus on all the rules we’re broken? Again, not that rules don’t have a place. But our focus should be on God and on others, on being a place where members support each other when they need help, where they are making a difference in the world around them. Not a place where everyone is worrying about what rules they’ve broken, and pointing out to each other where they’ve fallen short.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Thank you Inkfingers and hedrick, very informative and helpful.