A False Proverb Refuted

[Mr. M]

Right. Thanks for corroborating my point - which was that our unanimous concept of justice, as I spelled it out, is ALSO spelled out in those verses. In essence, those verses don't even need to exist because they rehash what we already know.

The corroboration you are seeking was in the OP#1

 

[Mr. M]

In your last post, for example, you intimated that Romans 5 speaks of a "justice" other than the "justice" of Ezekiel 18.

Which post was that?

 

[JAL]

The corroboration you are seeking was in the OP#1

I'm not seeking corroboration of what we all already know. Intuitively, we all know the definition of justice.

 

[JAL]

Which post was that?

(Sigh). Here's what you just said a moment ago:

If Paul is referencing Ezekiel 18, or Deuteronomy 24:16 when he writes Romans 5, could you please cite the reference. Where exactly in Romans 5 is Paul dealing with the justice described in Ezekiel 18?

Thereby you insinuate that it is possible for Romans 5 to speak of a "justice" different than the "justice" dealt with in Ezekiel 18, or Deuteronomy 24:16 .

 

[Mr. M]

(Sigh). Here's what you just said a moment ago:

Thereby you insinuate that it is possible for Romans 5 to speak of a "justice" different than the "justice" dealt with in Ezekiel 18, or Deuteronomy 24:16 .

No, I did not insinuate anything. I asked a question. Shall I answer it?
Romans 5:12. Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—

Ezekiel 18:20. The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

All sinned-all died. Justice served. Where is the contradiction?

 

[JAL]

No, I did not insinuate anything. I asked a question. Shall I answer it?
Romans 5:12. Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—

Ezekiel 18:20. The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

All sinned-all died. Justice served. Where is the contradiction?

Those infants in womb dying of starvation, disease etc - and the ones who have already died - when exactly did they deliberately choose to sin?

 

[Mr. M]

Those infants in womb dying of starvation, disease etc - and the ones who have already died - when exactly did they deliberately choose to sin?

Ezekiel 18 is clearly not dealing with this topic, nor is the OP, as clearly stated:
A False Proverb Refuted
Ezekiel 18
1 The word of the Lord came to me again, saying,
2 What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying:
The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge?
3 As I live, says the Lord God, you shall no longer use this proverb in Israel.
4 Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father
As well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die.

This is a scriptural example of a traditional belief undermining the Word of God.

Deuteronomy 24:16. Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor shall
children be put to death for their fathers; a person shall be put to death for his own sin.

This statute clearly refers to grown children who can be held accountable for committing
a sin that is "unto death", not children too young to be held accountable.

 

[JAL]

Ezekiel 18 is clearly not dealing with this topic, nor is the OP, as clearly stated:
A False Proverb Refuted
Ezekiel 18
1 The word of the Lord came to me again, saying,
2 What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying:
The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge?
3 As I live, says the Lord God, you shall no longer use this proverb in Israel.
4 Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father
As well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die.

This is a scriptural example of a traditional belief undermining the Word of God.

Deuteronomy 24:16. Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor shall
children be put to death for their fathers; a person shall be put to death for his own sin.

This statute clearly refers to grown children who can be held accountable for committing
a sin that is "unto death", not children too young to be held accountable.

So these 100 billion infants DIDN'T sin, but yet they are, from the womb, plunged into a world of disease, suffering, death - by a supposedly omnibenevolent God. Care to explain that? And care to explain how it reconciles with justice?

 

[Mr. M]

So these 100 billion infants DIDN'T sin, but yet they are, from the womb, plunged into a world of disease, suffering, death - by a supposedly omnibenevolent God. Care to explain that? And care to explain how it reconciles with justice?

No, I do not. That is off topic. You are off topic. If you want to debate that, start your own thread.
For the last time.

 

[JAL]

No, I do not. That is off topic. You are off topic. If you want to debate that, start your own thread.
For the last time.

You can't tell me that's off-topic. Adam is a father. He had children. And the topic of this thread pertains to whether children suffer for the offenses of their father.

 

[Mr. M]

You can't tell me that's off-topic. Adam is a father. He had children. And the topic of this thread pertains to whether children suffer for the offenses of their father.

No, actually the OP and Ezekiel 18 speaks to whether or not, as an act of false justice, a man can
be put to death for his sons crime, or vice versa. Not dealing at all with your concern for billions
of children born into horrible world. If you get arrested and charged with murder that was committed
by your son, that would be on topic.

 

[JAL]

No, actually the OP and Ezekiel 18 speaks to whether or not, as an act of false justice, a man can
be put to death for his sons crime, or vice versa. Not dealing at all with your concern for billions
of children born into horrible world. If you get arrested and charged with murder that was committed
by your son, that would be on topic.

Where does Ezekiel 18 limit itself to the act of arrest?

 

[JAL]

No, actually the OP and Ezekiel 18 speaks to whether or not, as an act of false justice, a man can
be put to death for his sons crime, or vice versa. Not dealing at all with your concern for billions
of children born into horrible world. If you get arrested and charged with murder that was committed
by your son, that would be on topic.

Again, Ezek 18 expresses the unanimous definition of justice. Has nothing to do with a discussion limited to "being placed under arrest".

 

[Mr. M]

Where does Ezekiel 18 limit itself to the act of arrest?

No, actually the OP and Ezekiel 18 speaks to whether or not, as an act of false justice, a man can
be put to death for his sons crime, or vice versa. .

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

No, I did not insinuate anything. I asked a question. Shall I answer it?
Romans 5:12. Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—

Ezekiel 18:20. The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

All sinned-all died. Justice served. Where is the contradiction?

There is no contradiction. Only one with a personal agenda to push would not agree.

 

[JAL]

There is no contradiction. Only one with a personal agenda to push would not agree.

Said the guy who ignores all charges of contradictions levied against him in any debate.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Said the guy who ignores all charges of contradictions levied against him in any debate.

There are no contradictions in what I believe as I can harmonize them in both Testaments. Just like a hand in a glove, a perfect fit !

 

[St. Helens]

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