A Disturbing Question

[RedTulipMom]

Thank you for your responses. I guess being a Baptist I never equated God the Father with Jesus the Son until after the resurrection and His Glorification. The "Creator" is God Almighty to me. That term could never be applied to Jesus in my humble opinion. and, I guess, that is what I found so disturbing.

I will continue to monitor responses here.

Matthan <J>< (the Baptist guy)

REally? Are you sure Baptists teach that? I think scripture makes it quite clear that Jesus isnt a created being. It makes it quite clear that he was here from the beginning...long before his birth on earth as Jesus in human form. When i used to be Baptist i understood it the same way as we as Catholics understand it. You don't think that Jesus only became God after the resurrection do you?? If you do then who was he before he came to earth? Your understanding doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me bibically.
karen

 

[nyj]

Thank you for your responses. I guess being a Baptist I never equated God the Father with Jesus the Son until after the resurrection and His Glorification. The "Creator" is God Almighty to me. That term could never be applied to Jesus in my humble opinion. and, I guess, that is what I found so disturbing.

The Nicene Creed states:

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
​

The bolded "him" in there refers to Jesus Christ.

 

[Hannah__1]

Is this an issue over whether Jesus is God the Creator? During the creation story God said "let Us make man in our own image". I always saw this as a forshadowing of the revelation of the Trinity. All three persons of the trinity are God the creator. Jesus was eternally there from the beginning creating with the Father and the Holy Spirit. Also in the old testament we read Elohim which is the Hebrew plural for God. It is the New Testament that reveals fully the true nature of God. We cannot seperate from Jesus that He is God the Son and God the Creator. Mary being the Mother of Jesus can therefore be also called Mother of the Creator. We are not saying that she created God the creator. We are saying that she was his mother.

Hannah

 

[seayhere]

I have been debating this with Protestants and I got a book called the Catholic Church Traditions based on Scripture. The following vs. are what they say Mary is based on. The more research I do, the deeper my faith is becoming and being so Thankful that I have the Catholic Church to lead me in the right direction. Glory be to God in the Highest!

“For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the first born among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.”(Rom 8:29-31)

Revelations-12:1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 12:2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 12:3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 12:4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 12:5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 12:6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

The early Protestant leaders honored Mary!

Is Christ only to be adored? Or is the holy Mother of God rather not to be honored? This is the woman who crushed the Serpent's head. Hear us. For your Son denies you nothing." [Martin Luther, last sermon in 1546]

"The more the honor and love of Christ increases among men, so much the esteem and honor given to Mary should grow." [Ulrich Zwingli]

"It cannot be denied that God in choosing and destining Mary to be the Mother of his Son, granted her the highest honor." [John Calvin]

2 Thessalonians 2:14

"Stand firm, then, brethan, and hold by the traditions you have learned, in word or in writing, from us"

 

[Axion]

I guess being a Baptist I never equated God the Father with Jesus the Son until after the resurrection and His Glorification. The "Creator" is God Almighty to me. That term could never be applied to Jesus in my humble opinion. and, I guess, that is what I found so disturbing.

That sounds similar to an "Adoptionist" position to me.

 

[Credo]

"Mother of the Creator"

hmmmm....let's see. What does the Bible say about this?

He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities--all things were created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. - Colossians 1:15-17

This is saying that Christ was present at the creation of all things and through him and in him all things were created and hold together. Thus, Christ is God and was active in all creation. Christ is the creator.

By faith we understand that the world was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was made out of things which do not appear. - Hebrews 11:3

The world was created by the word of God. What/Who is this word of God? Of course, it's Jesus!

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God; all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. - John 1:1-3

Again, Christ is the creator.

Who did Mary give birth to? Jesus Christ - God the Son - through whom all things were made. Mary is "Mother of the Creator"? You betcha! Nothing disturbing here!

JMJ

 

[Epiphanygirl]

Who did Mary give birth to? Jesus Christ - God the Son - through whom all things were made. Mary is "Mother of the Creator"? You betcha! Nothing disturbing here!

 

[St_Joseph_Cupertino]

Have you been on the Baptisma-whirl?? It's great you spin around and get dunked under water...

ROFL! That's soooo funny! Gotta luv that sense of humour

*I wanted to name more rides from Baptist Land here, but realised that might be construed as being in poor taste.*

But ya gotta luv that!

Peace in Christ.

 

[ufonium2]

Matthan, the belief that Mary was not the mother of God but only the mother of Christ is called Nestorianism. It was condemned as a heresy in 431. As others have stated, the debate was much more about Christ than it was Mary.

I know your denomination doesn't put a lot of stock in history, but maybe this will help you see why we do. Nestorianism was a mistake. We know about this mistake and can learn from it without having to repeat it. Consequently, we don't have to deal with answering the same questions and defeating the same heresies every few years. If you ignore history, you have no way of knowing that your question was asked and answered hundreds of years earlier. So you have to make your own mistakes, and waste time and energy (not to mention the risk of sliding into heresy) repeating age-old mistakes.

It's liberating to know you don't have to re-invent the wheel.