A Disturbing Question

[Paul S]

Thank you, one and all, for your kindness in allowing me to post this question. I read where the RCC refers to Mary as "the mother of the Creator." I find this personally disturbing, as (to me) it denotes God the Father rather than Christ the Son.

Yes, God the Father is the creator, but how did He do it?

Genesis tells us God spoke His Word, and the universe was. John tells us that the Word is the second Person of the Trinity, God the Son, Jesus.

The Father also created by sending His spirit to move over the waters, so all three Persons of the Trinity can be called Creators.

Catholics do not believe Mary is the mother of God the Father. We do believe she is the mother of God the Son, since He was born of her and took His human nature from her. His divine nature was begotten of the Father before all ages, but once the Incarnation occurred, we cannot separate the two. Mary did not just give birth to the human part of Jesus, she gave birth to a person who was both fully God and fully man.

 

[Roald]

Hi, why that is not "disturbing" at all -- it's part and parcel of something we are not technically meant to understand: the Trinity. Mary is the mother of Christ and Christ is God in human form. He has both divine and mortal components so to speak and is technically the same person as God the Father. So God let Mary be his conduit into the earthly world. Does this make sense? It's a paradox that we are only supposed to understand in eternity.
Cheers!
Colleen

Welcome to CF Poohbear246!

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

There is nothing disturbing at all. Mary is the mother of Jesus, Jesus is God, God is the Creator. All makes logical sense to me.

 

[Michelina]

CCC#290 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth":three things are affirmed in these first words of Scripture: the eternal God gave a beginning to all that exists outside of himself; he alone is Creator (the verb "create" - Hebrew bara - always has God for its subject). The totality of what exists (expressed by the formula "the heavens and the earth") depends on the One who gives it being.

291 "In the beginning was the Word. . . and the Word was God. . . all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made." The New Testament reveals that God created everything by the eternal Word, his beloved Son. In him "all things were created, in heaven and on earth.. . all things were created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together." The Church's faith likewise confesses the creative action of the Holy Spirit, the "giver of life", "the Creator Spirit" (Veni, Creator Spiritus), the "source of every good".

292 The Old Testament suggests and the New Covenant reveals the creative action of the Son and the Spirit, inseparably one with that of the Father. This creative co-operation is clearly affirmed in the Church's rule of faith: "There exists but one God. . . he is the Father, God, the Creator, the author, the giver of order. He made all things by himself, that is, by his Word and by his Wisdom", "by the Son and the Spirit" who, so to speak, are "his hands". Creation is the common work of the Holy Trinity

 

[Matthan]

Thank you for your responses. I guess being a Baptist I never equated God the Father with Jesus the Son until after the resurrection and His Glorification. The "Creator" is God Almighty to me. That term could never be applied to Jesus in my humble opinion. and, I guess, that is what I found so disturbing.

I will continue to monitor responses here.

Matthan <J>< (the Baptist guy)

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

Well- we can have our own discussion- speaking of made for communion-

Did you ever think about how at the Annunciation Mary ,in a way, received the first Holy Communion? And directly after receiving Jesus into her body- she goes forth to bring Jesus and to serve her cousin Elizabeth and bring joy to little St. John the Baptist?

My disturbing question about Mary is-- do we do the same after Holy Communion? Do we ponder these things in our heart and then spring forth in joyful service- first and foremost to our families- but also to the rest of the world? Do we become little Mary's- being God-bearers to all the earth? How many unworthy, unproductive Communions have we made?

, something to reflect on during prayer. Additionally, how many times are we not humbly subservient to the will of God before receiving Him and thus are not properly disposed to receive all that He wants to give us.

 

[Poohbear246]

Thank you Roald. Sorry for posting w/o introducing myself.

 

[Paul S]

Thank you for your responses. I guess being a Baptist I never equated God the Father with Jesus the Son until after the resurrection and His Glorification. The "Creator" is God Almighty to me. That term could never be applied to Jesus in my humble opinion. and, I guess, that is what I found so disturbing.

Jesus is God Almighty - He even called Himself I Am - "Before Abraham was, I AM."

The Son is just as much God as is the Father and the Holy Ghost.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Thank you for your responses. I guess being a Baptist I never equated God the Father with Jesus the Son until after the resurrection and His Glorification. The "Creator" is God Almighty to me. That term could never be applied to Jesus in my humble opinion. and, I guess, that is what I found so disturbing.

I will continue to monitor responses here.

Matthan <J>< (the Baptist guy)

But there aren't separate Gods-- there is only one God... Jesus has always existed, as has the Holy Spirit.... all are uncreated... though as an immense gift to humanity the Uncreated came to us as a Created being (yet also filly divine!)-- so that we might come to know God- that we might have comprehension and understanding of the Uncreated. That we might consume Him that He might abide in us and we in Him. Jesus isn't a separate diety- and His nature doesn't change after the Resurrection...

 

[Poohbear246]

Thank you for your responses. I guess being a Baptist I never equated God the Father with Jesus the Son until after the resurrection and His Glorification. The "Creator" is God Almighty to me. That term could never be applied to Jesus in my humble opinion. and, I guess, that is what I found so disturbing.

I will continue to monitor responses here.

Matthan <J>< (the Baptist guy)

Hi Matthan -- How do you view Jesus' life on earth in relation to God? Is Jesus not divine in Baptist theology, or perhaps he wasn't conscious of his divinity? Thanks for your clarification, I wasn't aware of that difference in doctrine on that front!

 

[Michelina]

The "Creator" is God Almighty to me. That term could never be applied to Jesus in my humble opinion. and, I guess, that is what I found so disturbing.

Jesus is God Almighty. He was God Almighty in Mary's Womb, in the manger, throughout His Life and on the Cross.

 

[Matthan]

Okay so I guess we can't have our own discussion as we now have to understand why we aren't supposed to think of Mary as Jesus' mommy- though she is specifically referred to as His mother (see Luke 2:33-35).

We be;ieve that there is 1 God in 3 Persons-- Mary is the Mother of God, because she is the mother of Jesus who was, and is, and shall forever be God.

Shannon, I never for an instant even suggested that you folks here in your domain were to think or not think in any manner. I came here asking a question only. And I apologise if you took my meaning wrong.

Matthan <J>< (ignorance is me...)

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

, something to reflect on during prayer. Additionally, how many times are we not humbly subservient to the will of God before receiving Him and thus are not properly disposed to receive all that He wants to give us.

I struggle with that- boy do I! With four little, little kids at Mass with me- I often find it hard to be recollected properly- I ask Jesus' patience and beg Mary to borrow her heart so that I might receive Him well.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Shannon, I never for an instant even suggested that you folks here in your domain were to think or not think in any manner. I came here asking a question only. And I apologise if you took my meaning wrong.

Matthan <J>< (ignorance is me...)

Just chalk it up to vice, not yet overcome, on my part....

When threads begin with two pages of responses to "Can I ask that which I find (insert perjorative adjective) about Catholics? " Generally those threads are meant to help Catholics understand their folly and be brought to the light of "right" thinking.

Again- it is just vice on my part and I beg forgiveness undesrved..

 

[seebs]

Thank you for your responses. I guess being a Baptist I never equated God the Father with Jesus the Son until after the resurrection and His Glorification. The "Creator" is God Almighty to me. That term could never be applied to Jesus in my humble opinion. and, I guess, that is what I found so disturbing.

I will continue to monitor responses here.

Matthan <J>< (the Baptist guy)

Interesting! Maybe you should start a thread over in Baptist-land about that. I have always assumed that Jesus was part of the Trinity before we even had laws of physics, let alone before the Incarnation.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Baptist-land

Have you been on the Baptisma-whirl?? It's great you spin around and get dunked under water...

 

[Rising_Suns]

Have you been on the Baptisma-whirl?? It's great you spin around and get dunked under water...

The Baptisma-what? Are you feeling ok Shannon?

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

Interesting! Maybe you should start a thread over in Baptist-land about that. I have always assumed that Jesus was part of the Trinity before we even had laws of physics, let alone before the Incarnation.

I thought that the Baptists who at least pretty solid on their understanding of the Trinity. Was I mistaken? Or is Matthan confused about what his tradition believes?

 

[Radagast]

Thank you for your responses. I guess being a Baptist I never equated God the Father with Jesus the Son until after the resurrection and His Glorification. The "Creator" is God Almighty to me. That term could never be applied to Jesus in my humble opinion...

In other words, this is not a question about Mary, but a question about the Trinity.

I suggest you read John 1 again:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.

He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God– children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ” From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

-- Radagast

 

[Radagast]

Or, if you prefer to get your theology from hymns:

http://www.geocities.com/jeffhung/lyrics_the_servant_king.htm

-- Radagast