A difficult but necessary study

[Boanerge]

Is it the MJ belief that the Holocaust was done to the Jewish people by Chrisitan people?

If Christianity has the ability to be used as a cloak to hide ones true intentions and reveal them before its too late, then a Christian is capable of such things.

Then again anyone within any religion, is capable of such things.

Simply because many have the habit if interchanging Faith with Title. For example, "Oh, She's a Christian, she must be able to heal us!" or "Oh, he's a Christian, how can he dress like that!" I try my best to know the difference, but There is living like a Christian only by title, living like a Christian by others doctrines without you ever reading the Bible yourself, or living like a Christian following the footsteps of Christ, doing as he says.

And you can tell by which of the three you follow simply by looking at your life.

I see the Holocaust as a means for the enemy to hinder us from ever getting united in a spiritual sense, making it difficult for the Jews to ever believe in what Christians believe in. But those who still do, call themselves messianic Jews because of the extremely heavy burden that the Title "Christian" holds. And i would not make such a big deal to force people to convert into any "Title" because it is not the name "Christian" That changes the heart of a person, and history can show you this.

It is who that name is suppose to represent, Jesus Christ, that does the work within a person. Your real title is found within the condition of your heart, and it can reveal whether you are a Sheep or a Goat, no matter what your surounding title is, whether you are Jew, Messianic Jew, Muslim, or Christian.

Many of those who want to find Jesus, try to do so within the surrounding religion, because it is safer, for some reason anyone who speaks the truth in Jesus gets trampled on or mocked at. I kind of know why, and i kind of don't, because Living as the Lord wants us to live really improves our lives, i don't understand why its so wrong to follow Him. We can follow other things, but following Jesus is the hardest. Why? I believe it's because the enemy, the Synogogue of Satan, has learned that if there is any belief that means something, it is any belief that has something to do with Jesus, and will do anything to divide and confuse the truth as in "what does it really mean to follow Jesus"?

Some people think that being corrected and rebuked is "persecution".

But persecution that means something, in my book, is this: Getting strange looks when reading the bible to someone in the train, getting laughed at for giving the Lord a song of praise, getting in trouble for doing a small prayer in school, helping out a stranger that everyone hates. For example, a Muslim helping an American and an American helping a Muslim. And then it extends into physical persecution from there.

Anyway theres more to this, but right now i don't understand it, so i will wait until the Holy Spirit teaches me more. I learned something today, and if i continue writing it would only be me exploring this new lesson. I pray that this may get you thinking too, but rightesously and in truth. who knows, maybe your post will help me better understand what i am trying to understand right now.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Well said, Boanerge

 

[ShirChadash]

But those who still do, call themselves messianic Jews because of the extremely heavy burden that the Title "Christian" holds.

How true. And actually, many identify as Messianic Jews, rather than "Christians", also because of the great amount of paganism that has come to be part and parcel of Christianity and Christian observances/practices/understandings of what it is to be a believer. Messianic Jews often eschew such paganism and instead embrace the observances/practices/understandings of the Jew who also believes, which are those found in the Word of G-d and practiced by the Word of G-d, Yeshua. Same Messiah, different way of living. Messianic Jew would be a more accurately descriptive term for such believers.

 

[Trish1947]

I might be making this too simplistic here, but if we look at just the human side of why people do such things, does it seem like a natural thing for such hatred to manifest itself in humanity to the point of sadistic, unparelleled murder? Or would we be more apt to believe that there is nothing human about it at it's root? We must not forget that we have a spiritual enemy, that hates all God's people, wheather Jew or Christian. Yes, I believe that it is Satan, and if we let him affect our thinking on who should we blame for all this evil, and we blame each other, then has he not suceeded in his mission to cause hatred even among God's people? Wheather Jew or Christian. We need to be aware of his devices.

 

[Sephania]

I rented "Life is Beautiful " last night. I still have a huge lump in my throat. But through it all you can see that Carlos had the spirit of Jacob in him. It is this spirit that G-d choose, one that would not only wrestle with G-d but who would persevere no matter what the enemy throws at him. As a light to the rest of the world AND a warning, but how many took notice and said "if G-d would do that do his own beloved what will he do to us? "

Arrogance and spiritual blindness, but they will see some day.

 

[Plan 9]

I would like to suggest the book, Man's Search for Meaning by Vicktor E. Frankl.
Not everyone is aware that it is a Holocaust account.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

How true. And actually, many identify as Messianic Jews, rather than "Christians", also because of the great amount of paganism that has come to be part and parcel of Christianity and Christian observances/practices/understandings of what it is to be a believer. Messianic Jews often eschew such paganism and instead embrace the observances/practices/understandings of the Jew who also believes, which are those found in the Word of G-d and practiced by the Word of G-d, Yeshua. Same Messiah, different way of living. Messianic Jew would be a more accurately descriptive term for such believers.

What Paganism?

 

[Ann M]

I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but I feel I must... I have a basic knowledge of the Jews, the holocaust etc, so I was quite amazed one night when listening to the Religious talkback show a few years ago when they had a few Jews on speaking about themselves. One referred to friends who called themselves 'Atheist Jews'. I had always thought of Jews as being first and foremost a religious entity.... to me it would be like calling myself an 'Atheist Catholic'?

 

[Henaynei]

"Being Jewish" is several things:
1) an ethnic people group - often defined by if one's mother was Jewish, and her mother was Jewish and ... so on...
2) a nationality
3) a religion

Many Jews see themselves as #1 or #1 and #2, a few see themselves as #1 and #3, even fewer see themselves as #1, #2 and #3.

The VAST majority of Jews are only #1. Sad, but true

4) One can also convert - these can then be #4, 4+2, or 4+3 or 4+2+3

Shalom

 

[ShirChadash]

"Being Jewish" is several things:
1) an ethnic people group - often defined by if one's mother was Jewish, and her mother was Jewish and ... so on...
2) a nationality
3) a religion

Many Jews see themselves as #1 or #1 and #2, a few see themselves as #1 and #3, even fewer see themselves as #1, #2 and #3.

The VAST majority of Jews are only #1. Sad, but true

4) One can also convert - these can then be #4, 4+2, or 4+3 or 4+2+3

Shalom

*rubs eyes* A math lesson at 7:45 AM. Where's my coffee????

 

[simchat_torah]

What Paganism?

Do I have to behave myself?





or can I just go at it?

 

[simchat_torah]

I began to think... "where do I start"... but my thoughts were overwhelmed, so I decided to play a bit coy

 

[Sephania]

Not here. Isn't there some other thread that this can be addressed in? This subject really needs to stay on topic.

MHO.

 

[ShirChadash]

I agree Zayit. A new thread would be better, if people want to really discuss it in depth, rather than to derail this one.

Quick answer from me, as I don't care to argue: Anything practices/beliefs/understandings not found within "Judaism", which was the one and only faith handed down directly from YHVH Elohim through Yeshua (the Memra) by the power of His Spirit (Ruach Elohim), are pagan in origin.

Duet. 12:30-31
"...be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their g-ds, by saying "How do these nations serve their g-ds? We will do the same. You must not worship the YHVH your G-d in their way..."
Here we can see clearly that not only are we not to worship other g-ds, but specifically we are not to worship OUR G-d in the SAME WAY. We do not worship HIM with the same practices or forms of worship... He has already laid out how we are to worship him, including 'holy days'.

Duet. 18:9&13
"When you enter the land your YHVH is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there"..."You must be blameless before the YHVH your Elohim."
Here we see that we are not to even IMITATE pagan practices. On the contrary, we are called to stive to be blameless.

from this thread: http://www.christianforums.com/t36732&page=1
which deals with some things... or maybe someone could just start a new thread altogether?

 

[simchat_torah]

I wouldn't mind starting a pagan origins thread. The thread quoted just above this post details a specific form of paganism adopted in, not paganism in general.

shalom,
yafet

 

[Henaynei]

It occurs to me that such discussion might be best handled in the GA or UTD threads...
/me looks warily at simchat_torah and is grateful for his decision to take the high road and "behave" -- LOL Just wiat until I tell Mrs. S_T!!! Will she believe it??

 

[simchat_torah]

*glares*

 

[koilias]

Simchat snarls...

 

[Henaynei]

/me looks on sweetly knowing that dog has one ferocious bark but won't attack unless attacked

 

[koilias]

* Henaynei looks on sweetly knowing that dog has one ferocious bark but won't attack unless attacked

C'mon...Let him loose! I wanna watch the show...