A different view of the Rapture.

Jig · Feb 28, 2006

depthdeception said:
This is a good point. I was thinking to the allusion in the verse earlier posted about "meeting in the clouds"... My point was more directed towards the metaphorical nature of the word "air" and "clouds."

Why must those words hold a metaphorical nature? Why could they not be literal?

depthdeception · Feb 28, 2006

Jig said:
If Christ died to save us from physical death, then why do saved people die a physical death still?

Well, the point is that because of Christ you don't stay dead forever, which is precisely what would happen had Christ not been resurrected.

Let me ask you a question: When we go to Heaven will we still have our old Earthly body or a new glorified body?

It will be both--we will still be physical creatures that lived transformed existences. You are improperly "loading the deck" towards your opinion by using the words "old" and "new" as if one is better than the other.

Also, when we die, do you believe the soul stays with your corpse? What happens if the body is cremated and scattered? Is the soul also scattered in pieces?

"You" will not have a corpse. You will be a corpse. The two cannot be divided for humans are body/soul, not body and soul.

The flesh is weak and sinful by it's very nature. Paul said so. (Romans 8:3, etc.)

Paul would rebuke you for this perversion of his teaching.

Quite trying to build a straw man...I'm not subscribing to any gnostic beliefs. I'm not saying the soul is free from the stain of sin. Now, that would be a gnostic belief.

Okay, the Gnostics explicitly taught that the physical body was sinful. As you yourself have admitted this belief, I do not see how my statement is a "strawman."

Well, that would be a great opinion to express if this thread was about if you believed there is a Rapture. It's not though.

Sorry to disappoint you.

depthdeception · Feb 28, 2006

Jig said:
Why must those words hold a metaphorical nature? Why could they not be literal?

I thought you didn't care what "non-rapturists" thought...

Melethiel · Feb 28, 2006

When we go to Heaven will we still have our old Earthly body or a new glorified body?

I believe Scripture speaks of the OLD bodies being raised incorruptible.

OrthodoxyUSA · Feb 28, 2006

Melethiel said:
I believe Scripture speaks of the OLD bodies being raised incorruptible.
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Same body only made anew and incorruptable.... We will reconize each face.

Forgive me....

Jig · Mar 1, 2006

Is there anyone who believes in the Rapture, that has an opinion on the OP??

linssue55 · Mar 1, 2006

Jig said:
The price for sin is physical and spiritual death. (Romans 5:12; Romans 6:23)Adam and eve died spiritualy when they ate of the tree.......nearly 800 years later they died physically. When we sin we use 1 John 1:9 to get back into fellowship......filled with the spirit. Use this evrey time we sin.

We all must experence physical death for are sins, but Jesus dead to save us from spiritual death (eternal seperation from God). Use 1 John 1:9 then we are no longer greiving or quenching the spirit. We are never seperated from the Godhead, at salvation we are Indwelt with all three and they live in our body, they never leave, when we sin we are greiving and quenching the Holy Spirit, so we use 1 John 1:9.

My question is (I'm not sure if this has come up before or even discussed): When the rapture happens, will we die physically that instant?No! We go up to meet the Lord in the air, there is no death (physical) at the time of the rapture, at this time we recieve our perfect resurrection body, No physical death.

I mean...maybe the movie Left Behind has it wrong. Maybe when the rapture occurs, it is only our souls that are caught up in the clouds with the Lord. (1 Thess. 4:17) This makes since...I mean, why would we need are Earthly bodies still? No, our soul and human spirit go to meet the Lord in the air with our bodies, then the Lord being God, gives us our new body. The old sin nature does not go with us, we will never again have it, for we no longer sin.

This would mean...all are physical bodies (our sinful flesh) would be left behind to rot with the rest of the world. I don't know what happens to our old bodies, but who cares, we are going to have an uncorruptable body. This body we now have is only temporary, it is only a house, and I don't want it in heaven, it's all used up. lol.

Can you imagine in a blink of an eye there suddenly is millions of corpses just laying around the world? No, millions of people (body's) will be gone, missing, not found, vanished.

I believe the 'world' could explain away this happening by calling it a mass flash plague or placing some kind of scientific theory to it (such as a catastrophic cosmological event dealing with high energy sun flares or something ) ...This would be a lot easier than explaining away millions of purely missing people.

What do you guys think?

The unbelievers on earth will say it was UFO's that have taken us. Called the new age, world order! They are so ignorant, not thinking it was God. During the 7 years many will become believers, but it will be "LITTERAL HELL ON EARTH". That is why the Lord takes us up, for He will NOT allow His children (us) to go through such hell.

Gwenyfur · Mar 1, 2006

Jig said:
We all must experence physical death for are sins, but Jesus dead to save us from spiritual death (eternal seperation from God).

My question is (I'm not sure if this has come up before or even discussed): When the rapture happens, will we die physically that instant? I mean...maybe the movie Left Behind has it wrong. Maybe when the rapture occurs, it is only our souls that are caught up in the clouds with the Lord. (1 Thess. 4:17) This makes since...I mean, why would we need are Earthly bodies still?

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

I think you're onto a good train of thought there..."unto men" implies that all men must die once. The 2 witnesses who are killed in Rev are thought to be the 2 men who haven't tasted death in the OT...(pure speculation of course) Though...the thought of all those rotting corpses...

oh yes...I'm a pre-trib zionist

Jig · Mar 1, 2006

linssue55 said:
No! We go up to meet the Lord in the air, there is no death (physical) at the time of the rapture, at this time we recieve our perfect resurrection body, No physical death.

You are so quick to say no. Is there scripture that clearly states this? I mean, why is there no physical death for these people? I thought we ALL must physcially die for our sins. Why is it that only those who are lucky enough to be alive when the rapture occurs get to escape this physical death? I'm going to be picky here and request scriptural support for your answer.

linssue55 said:
No, our soul and human spirit go to meet the Lord in the air with our bodies, then the Lord being God, gives us our new body. The old sin nature does not go with us, we will never again have it, for we no longer sin.

Again, I'd appreciate some scriptural support. I believe in the Rapture of the church, I just don't think scripture gives us all the details to it.

linssue55 said:
I don't know what happens to our old bodies, but who cares, we are going to have an uncorruptable body. This body we now have is only temporary, it is only a house, and I don't want it in heaven, it's all used up. lol.

That's basicly what my question is about. What happens to our flesh during the Rapture. It might not truely matter, but I'd like to see if anyone can pull some clearity on this topic with scriptural support.

linssue55 said:
No, millions of people (body's) will be gone, missing, not found, vanished.

Again, I think you answer 'no' too quickly. Where is this in the Bible? When 1 Thess 4:17 says "those who are still alive" that just means those who are alive when the rapture occurs, because if you look at the verse previous, we see the already dead being rised up first. I have not seen support for your statement. I'm just asking if you could provide it. Thanks in advance.

linssue55 said:
The unbelievers on earth will say it was UFO's that have taken us. Called the new age, world order! They are so ignorant, not thinking it was God. During the 7 years many will become believers, but it will be "LITTERAL HELL ON EARTH". That is why the Lord takes us up, for He will NOT allow His children (us) to go through such hell.

Sounds like you took that right from the movie Left Behind. You are WAY TOO sure of your belief in this with no scriptural support to back it up.

Jig · Mar 1, 2006

Gwenyfur said:
Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

I think you're onto a good train of thought there..."unto men" implies that all men must die once. The 2 witnesses who are killed in Rev are thought to be the 2 men who haven't tasted death in the OT...(pure speculation of course) Though...the thought of all those rotting corpses...

oh yes...I'm a pre-trib zionist

Good verse.

Lynn73 · Mar 1, 2006

We can nit pic til the cows come home. What's gonna happen is gonna happen, we'll just have to wait and see. But I still think it will be a pre-trib Rapture of the church. Hey, that's just me.

Melethiel · Mar 1, 2006

I don't know what happens to our old bodies, but who cares, we are going to have an uncorruptable body. This body we now have is only temporary, it is only a house, and I don't want it in heaven, it's all used up. lol.

Scripture speaks of the old bodies being raised incorruptible. Look at Jesus' resurrection, He still had the same body, not a new incorruptible one. To speak of the human flesh as only temporary, a shell, reeks of Gnosticism.

azzy · Mar 1, 2006

Jig said:
Is there anyone who believes in the Rapture, that has an opinion on the OP??

Well,as I see it,we shall be changed,in a moment,in the twinkling of an eye,and will forever be with the Lord.

OrthodoxyUSA · Mar 1, 2006

azzy said:
Well,as I see it,we shall be changed,in a moment,in the twinkling of an eye,and will forever be with the Lord.

Correct, 1000 points for azzy!

Forgive me....

depthdeception · Mar 1, 2006

linssue55 said:
That is why the Lord takes us up, for He will NOT allow His children (us) to go through such hell.

Why not? God has allowed the Church to go through such for the last 2000 years. Why would things change?

Advent Christian · Mar 1, 2006

Hello all
I apologize for this post not directly addressing the OP I feel however that I am supposed to post it.

I will admit I do not find the Rapture of the church to be scriptural at this point in my Christian growth. I will say, for a number of reasons, I hope the interpretation is correct even though I do not believe it to be. I will name but two of my reasons for this hoping I am wrong in my understanding. 1st It causes an extreme ease for Satan to misled Christians if the Rapture dose not occur prior to Tribulation. There are many which will be deceived by the Tempter during these time and one way I see that happening is for those who believe they will not be here during those times then they also would not believe they could be marked by Satan, their not suppose to be here. 2nd reason I will list here is fleshlier. It certainly is comforting to think that myself and none of my loved ones which accept Christ as Savior will suffer through Tribulation, this thought just feels good to me(I believe the Word of God warns us of tickling the ears). This however doses not correlate with scripture in entirety. While there are scriptures which can be used to support both sides of this debate scripture should be taken as a whole. I do not care if there are 999 verses which in context agree with an interpretation of Gods Word, if there is but 1 verse which again taken in context disagrees then that interpretation is either incomplete or plain wrong. God is not the author of confusion, man and his own intelligence is. God dose not contradict Himself in any manner man creates these contradictions. On this subject I am still delving following where the Lord leads. I hope and pray the Rapture belief is correct but alas so far I can not find it to be so. I pray this is my short coming. As always my love to all and May God Bless.

OrthodoxyUSA · Mar 1, 2006

depthdeception said:
Why not? God has allowed the Church to go through such for the last 2000 years. Why would things change?

1000 points for depthdeception!

Remember the points mean nothing!

Forgive me...

depthdeception · Mar 1, 2006

OrthodoxyUSA said:
1000 points for depthdeception!

Remember the points mean nothing!

Forgive me...

holdon · Mar 1, 2006

depthdeception said:
Why not? God has allowed the Church to go through such for the last 2000 years. Why would things change?

Christ said "we" the christians would have tribulation in the world. (At the beginning of that same discourse He had also pointed out that He would come again to fetch His disciples.)
In another place He also said that "then" there would be great tribulation as there never was nor ever will be.
So, He is clearly talking about a different thing.

Things will definitely change..

Loukuss · Mar 1, 2006

linssue55 said:
That is why the Lord takes us up, for He will NOT allow His children (us) to go through such hell.

We are saved from God's wrath, but not from the trials of Satan. Furthermore, God has shown us in the past that we may be present on earth while His wrath is poured out, but we will be protected from it.
It isnt necessary for God to rapture us to heaven to protect us from His wrath.

A different view of the Rapture.

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