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A different gospel
- Thread starter vanshan
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holeinone said:
As was already pointed out we are not Roman Catholics, and we firmly reject the misinterpretation of these scriptures by the Roman Catholic faith.
I have read several commentaries written by various Church fathers regarding these verses, and the clear understanding almost universally (a few may have made an error in intepretation earlier), before the Roman corruption and schism, was that Christ built His Church on all the Apostles, not just Peter, and He gave His authority to bind and loose things to them all. Peter was equal to every bishop. The whole hierarchical structure of the Roman Catholic faith is diametrically opposed to the collegial system of leadership seen in the Church. Bishops do not act like rulers over the people, they are shepherds, who work together as equals to preserve the gospel unchanged. They are bound together, not by some odd hierarchical structure, but by there desire to preserve truth and unity among each other. The Church is not a modern corporation with a CEO at the top.
Basil
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calmcoolandelected
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I thought it interesting that he warns against preachers who use proof-texts and then he proof-texts...ContraMundum said:
CC&E
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canadiancatholic
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I would much rather have a pastor who preaches the truth. Even Mormons teach the bible, but I'm not about to take a seat. Any pastor can wave a bible in the air and extoll it's virtues, but does that mean he's got it correct? With all the differences in various denoms, One has to wonder.Just my opinion.
canadiancatholic
canadiancatholic
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holeinone said:
None of the denominations I explored, before becoming Orthodox, could satisfactorily explain the full body of scriptures. Every group seems to be emphasizing certain verse sets, while not being able to give adequate explanation, at least to my satisfaction, of those verses that seemed to clearly contradict their teachings. There was no comprehensive understanding of the Bible, and often no historic continuity for their interpretations. We use scriptures as proof of the truths we maintain, but we can also explain the ones that seem to contradict each other.
Basil
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canadiancatholic
Regular Member
mesue said:
Yes! But not all are wrong in interpreting it, someone has to have it right.
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ContraMundum said:
I was wondering the same thing, also wondering if I am being unusually slow. But, I'm pretty sure our inferences are right on.
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mesue said:
If most of the thousands of opposing denominations believe they are being led by the Holy Spirit in their interpretation of scripture, yet they disagree on many very significant points, then they are being led by a different spirit, not the Spirit of God. Are you saying that the Holy Spirit causes confusion, dissent, and division? That sounds more like satan than God.
mesue said:
God has made the truth available through His Church. Each of us, individually, are fallible in our understanding of scripture and our ability to hear God, so it's important not to place our understanding above the full understanding that has been passed down from the beginning. I don't care who you are, or who you believe you are getting your understanding from, the true test is if what you understand is in agreement with the truth that has been preserved in Christ's Church. Everything else is just traditions or gospels of men, either derived out by misinterpretation or demonic dellusion.
Basil
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mesue said:
God created one Church to preserve truth for all ages, of which Christ is the only head. He said the Church would be the pillar and ground of the truth (1 Timothy 3:15) and that the gates of hell would never prevail against it (Matthew 16:18). If we are part of the Body we show ourselves to be His children, although we are unworthy. If we gather a fellowship of men who agree with our personal interpretation, but it is a distortion of the truth, then we become a pack of wolves, working to steal others away from the truth, because of our error. We may think we are teaching the truth, but if we are wrong we are enemies of Christ.
Basil
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canadiancatholic said:
Says who? Who says that anybody has it all right? Do you believe that even the apostles had it all right during their lives?
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Splayd said:
A sage reply. Thanks. The deposit of faith is held within the Body established at Pentecost, which is commemorated June 11 this year, by the way. In it the proper balanced understanding of scripture exists, not because the Orthodox have figured it out, or have preserved some gnostic secret knowledge, but because they have preserved the truth unchanged for these two millenia since Christ. The historic record of those who followed the Way are there to be sorted through. Collectively they agree on essential points of truth, even if one or two may have been off course on some topics--which is why we never base truth on the opinions of one man, because anyone, even a saint, can misunderstand some things.
Basil
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The more threads I read in GT, the more dissillusioned I become. I honestly expected these forums would be a place where we celebrate our unity. I know that's naive. I also expected there to be a lot of debate and disagreement regarding doctrines and I welcomed the prospect as an opportunity to learn and grow, but quite frankly I've become sick to the stomach with the elitism here. We're not examining truths and working through our beliefs in most of these threads - we're just trying to claim bragging rights as the one true church. How petty and arrogant it is. It reminds me of the brothers jostling for position with Jesus.
The truth is not the orthodox church, catholicism, protestantism or any other ism... It's Christ!!!
The truth is not the orthodox church, catholicism, protestantism or any other ism... It's Christ!!!
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ContraMundum said:
I don't know if this thread even has a point, but the hope is to dispel ignorance. I alone cannot say anything, except what I have heard, not being an eloquent theologian, but I have read many things and truly believe many of us have been led astray, first by the corruption of the Roman Catholic faith and then by the subsequent reformers, who went in totally new directions getting some things right, but many things wrong. They created a whole smorgasboard of strange new teachings never believed before, therefore definitely establishing traditions of men, not God.
Basil
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canadiancatholic
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racer said:
Does this mean you travel from church to church every week to get the whole truth. What is taught in your church that you feel isn't true regarding the bible. Where do you go to get it, or do you just rely on a private interpretation even though many of your fellow parishoners probably think differently. And yes the apostles did have it right on the salvation end of things. How could they not? I can't see God hoping that we could discern true salvation from faulty words. Someone has to be the pillar and foundation of truth, not truthes and not some truthes or partial truthes, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.Just my opinion.
canadiancatholic.
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To be honest vanshan - the more posts I read from the Orthodox members here, the more I realise we actually have so much more in common than we realise. We just have our defintions mixed up.
As I see it the protestant view of "Faith Alone" is spot on because the true believer who argues this point understands that true faith bears fruit and works will necessarily follow. Without the fruit - it's just a statement of belief.
It seems to me that those that argue against it are concerned that it's simplicity may lead to the error of believing that hollow words are sufficient.
What I perceive to be the orthodox view of Faith+Works also seems to reach the same conclusion. A sincere christian who starts at this point doesn't do works because they are trying to earn salvation, but rather because the Spirit is stirring in them, just as it is in the sincere protestant. Those who argue against this perspective appear to do so out of a concern that it could lead to the erroneous belief that one can earn salvation through works.
The truth is though - both perspectives lead to the same outcome for a sincere mature christian. It's only our concerns about motivation that cause us to quibble about the details.
That's just how I'm seeing it lately. I'm prepared to be wrong.
As I see it the protestant view of "Faith Alone" is spot on because the true believer who argues this point understands that true faith bears fruit and works will necessarily follow. Without the fruit - it's just a statement of belief.
It seems to me that those that argue against it are concerned that it's simplicity may lead to the error of believing that hollow words are sufficient.
What I perceive to be the orthodox view of Faith+Works also seems to reach the same conclusion. A sincere christian who starts at this point doesn't do works because they are trying to earn salvation, but rather because the Spirit is stirring in them, just as it is in the sincere protestant. Those who argue against this perspective appear to do so out of a concern that it could lead to the erroneous belief that one can earn salvation through works.
The truth is though - both perspectives lead to the same outcome for a sincere mature christian. It's only our concerns about motivation that cause us to quibble about the details.
That's just how I'm seeing it lately. I'm prepared to be wrong.
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vanshan said:
In your opinion, do you think that the Anglican Church got it right?
(BTW, thanks for this thread. I am a former Roman Catholic. Need I say more?)
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It is God that preserved His word and not we ourselves.- Status
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