A curious question..

[Radagast]

... The person who did it died just a decade ago. And people who saw it are still alive...

Ironically, this is exactly the argument St Paul makes about the Resurrection of Christ... and not too different from what supporters of Galileo said about the phases of Venus.

 

[Radagast]

This 61-foot modern replica of a Polynesian canoe has travelled all around the Pacific...

That replica probably has GPS, but traditional navigation used the stars, wave patterns, the presence of wildlife, and (within settled areas) some rather unique charts:

 

[Tiberius]

Ironically, this is exactly the argument St Paul makes about the Resurrection of Christ... and not too different from what supporters of Galileo said about the phases of Venus.

Ah, but how many people were there to see it first hand? For Kon Tiki, we have photographs as well, as well as written reports of the guy who actually did it.

If there were photos of Jesus and his own written account of what happened, then I'd consider it a bit more...

 

[Radagast]

For Kon Tiki, we have photographs as well, as well as written reports of the guy who actually did it.

Kon Tiki was perhaps not the best example, as it was actually a raft, not a canoe.

And of course, the written reports of the guy who actually did it that are less important than the reports of the guys who saw it. And hundreds of people have seen the replica canoe Hokulea.

 

[Lillen]

I am curious, how do you navigate to a unknowned target!?

 

[TLK Valentine]

I am curious, how do you navigate to a unknowned target!?

You don't -- but you do know where you currently are, and can use clues such as changing currents and presence of certain kinds of wildlife to deduce that land is near -- so the target doesn't stay unknown for long.

 

[keith99]

Indeed.

Of course, not all canoes that set out arrived, and not all passengers were alive on arrival. But that's been true for all major settlements. Thousands of people died along the Oregon Trail too. As Resha Caner said, some people thought the risk was worth it.

I'd bet that in some cases the risk was obviously worth it. Losers of wars often have slavery at best to face, more likely death. Heading out with a slim hope is better than staying with no hope.

 

[keith99]

I am curious, how do you navigate to a unknowned target!?

You are starting with the mindset that tehy went straight to some new island. You also seem to be starting with the mindset of a land based society.

These were people who fed their families largely from the sea. When the known sites are not productive it makes sense for a fisherman to venture farther out, eventually beyond the sight of land. Worse time, farther out.

Both navigation and land location get learned that way. For example identifying types of birds. Some types tend to stay nearer land. A ocean going culture would have learned that. I have seen Islands from over 30 miles away. Reading ocean signs can extend knowing one is close to land far more. A bit of luck would be involved, but as others have said people died, not everyone was lucky.

If a culture lives by hte sea there will be a constant stream of those caught in storms. Some will find their way home, some to other Islands. Enough of those finding other land will want to get back home for any of a number of reasons. Some will try, some of those will make it. Then one more island is no longer an unknown.

 

[Radagast]

These were people who fed their families largely from the sea. When the known sites are not productive it makes sense for a fisherman to venture farther out, eventually beyond the sight of land. Worse time, farther out.

Also, if you live by the sea, that's who you are, and that's where your pride comes from, so that there are always guys wanting to go one step further. Like the Vikings that reached America.

 

[TheReasoner]

This 61-foot modern replica of a Polynesian canoe has travelled all around the Pacific. It looks like this:

That's not too much smaller than a viking longship. I assume neither this nor the viking longships had one set size.
But for comparison the ships in the viking ship museum in Oslo are about 70.8 feet and 76.5 feet long respectively.

And, well, if the vikings braved the north sea in ships like that - and with great success - why shouldn't it be possible to do so down in the pacific in large canoes like the one shown here?

I don't know if the seas are milder down there, but I hope so. The north sea can apparently get extremely rough.

 

[Radagast]

And, well, if the vikings braved the north sea in ships like that - and with great success - why shouldn't it be possible to do so down in the pacific in large canoes like the one shown here?

Good point. We also have replica longships, apparently.

I don't know if the seas are milder down there, but I hope so. The north sea can apparently get extremely rough.

The Pacific can get very rough (in spite of its name), but the Polynesians would have developed a good sense of when the storm season was.

 

[Lillen]

Explorers discovered new lands through navigating by stars. they did not actually use navigation to tell where they were, but rather use naviagtion to discover something new. In this case new land. Stars simply do not reveal to you where you are, because you'll need a map and compass to tell were you are, and deep sea was back then not on a map and compass was not yet invented.

Navigation by the stars is not another way to orientate with a map and a compass. It is way to discover new territory.

And with those ships you all show I see my bad...

 

[TheReasoner]

Good point. We also have replica longships, apparently.

Yep. They occasionally stop by on medieval festivals and such here in Norway. So, I have seen some.
Apparently, there was one - named Viking - sailed from Bergen, Norway to Newfoundland and New York, up the Hudson River, through the Erie Canal and into the Great Lakes to Chicago in 1893. It took twelve men to sail, and the ship is still in the US

It (The ship) has a wikipedia page: Viking (ship) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
where you can find out where they travelled and where the ship is now.

The Pacific can get very rough (in spite of its name), but the Polynesians would have developed a good sense of when the storm season was.

I would think so.

 

[Radagast]

... Stars simply do not reveal to you where you are, because you'll need a map and compass to tell were you are, and deep sea was back then not on a map and compass was not yet invented...

The Polynesians made maps, but stories have much the same effect (e.g. "we sailed north for 12 days from X and found land at Y, then we sailed 5 days east and reached Z").

Also, stars give you the direction of north and south, so you don't need a compass.

North of the equator, finding north is even easier.

Polynesians also navigated using the diffraction patterns caused by prevailing waves passing around islands.

 

[Radagast]

Apparently, there was one - named Viking - sailed from Bergen, Norway to Newfoundland and New York, up the Hudson River, through the Erie Canal and into the Great Lakes to Chicago in 1893. It took twelve men to sail, and the ship is still in the US

Cool!

I've just been reading about Viking travels to America, actually.

 

[TheReasoner]

The Polynesians made maps, but stories have much the same effect (e.g. "we sailed north for 12 days from X and found land at Y, then we sailed 5 days east and reached Z").

Also, stars give you the direction of north and south, so you don't need a compass.

North of the equator, finding north is even easier.

Q: I realize that as I spent some of my childhood on the countryside in Norway with people extremely fond of roughing it and being in the scouts then later the army it may be natural for me in my situation, but.... Isn't this something everyone learns at some point? Rough stellar navigation I mean. As well as a couple of other signs - moss on trees, I think there was something about anthills and of course what to do in snowstorms (okay, this one may be less widely known), and other basic survival traits?

Do you - down under - learn such things in primary school? We sure did. Had classes running around the forest. Classes slaughtering animals, too. It was the school's view that we needed to know where our food came from. And how to prepare it. Biology+cooking. In one go.

 

[Lillen]

Whatever...

 

[Lillen]

We obiously do not navigate by stars the same way.. Remeber the world was flat back then... And the center of the universe...

I am not sure i follow that description in your picture. It is two dimentional, only shows that south is downwards... explain it further...

And also, to add, north and south was not invented yet??? It was invented with the compass, or?? Remeber flat, center...

 

[Radagast]

I am not sure i follow that description in your picture. It is two dimentional, only shows that south is downwards... explain it further...

It says south is directly below the south celestial pole.

But you're a northerner... just think north = Polaris.

And of course they knew about north. Every ancient society did.

 

[Radagast]

Isn't this something everyone learns at some point? Rough stellar navigation I mean...

Not everywhere, apparently.

We're a very urbanised society in Australia -- we learn how to find south, and safety issues at the beach, and which poisonous animals to avoid. People who grow up in the country learn a little more, I believe.