A Concern

[TheOriginalWhitehorse]

Dear Friends,

Lately I've been troubled because of a practice ever so well-meaning, but spiritually harmful. It's feeling the very godly need to encourage, but doing so without proper knowledge of scripture, and so struggling believers who are wounded or in serious need of help take comfort in doctrines that don't come from God, or promises that don't apply to them because the conditions for those promises have not been met by them. The truth can be comforting if the promises really can be held by the person in question. But the truth also includes things people don't want to hear, but they need to hear in order to be saved.

Here's just one of many examples, and we've all done it at some point in our walk: indiscriminately telling people that God loves them, without taking into account God's sovereignty. The flesh tells us it's mean not to tell everyone God loves them, but the Spirit tells us that if we do not warn people of God's soveregnty, they will never repent.

The difference is prayerfully and submissively reading the scripture every day, and paying careful attention to what we read. Reading in context instead of the tempting ailment of those short on time: the flip-and-dip (flipping the Bible open and reading a random chapter). Of course it takes time to get to know scripture well; I know that, and everyone says things they later discover weren't actually correct. I've done it myself many times. But my fear is that we've become a nation that conforms the faith into what we want to hear and believe. We've stopped learning and studying, and sometimes I wonder how carefully we assess what we've always assumed about the Lord.

In all Christian sincerity and love,
Whitehorse

 

[LynnMcG]

Well done. And in good time I think. Thank you and God bless you!

 

[brinny]

Dear Friends,

Lately I've been troubled because of a practice ever so well-meaning, but spiritually harmful. It's feeling the very godly need to encourage, but doing so without proper knowledge of scripture, and so struggling believers who are wounded or in serious need of help take comfort in doctrines that don't come from God, or promises that don't apply to them because the conditions for those promises have not been met by them. The truth can be comforting if the promises really can be held by the person in question. But the truth also includes things people don't want to hear, but they need to hear in order to be saved.

Here's just one of many examples, and we've all done it at some point in our walk: indiscriminately telling people that God loves them, without taking into account God's sovereignty. The flesh tells us it's mean not to tell everyone God loves them, but the Spirit tells us that if we do not warn people of God's soveregnty, they will never repent.

The difference is prayerfully and submissively reading the scripture every day, and paying careful attention to what we read. Reading in context instead of the tempting ailment of those short on time: the flip-and-dip (flipping the Bible open and reading a random chapter). Of course it takes time to get to know scripture well; I know that, and everyone says things they later discover weren't actually correct. I've done it myself many times. But my fear is that we've become a nation that conforms the faith into what we want to hear and believe. We've stopped learning and studying, and sometimes I wonder how carefully we assess what we've always assumed about the Lord.

In all Christian sincerity and love,
Whitehorse

I'm trying to understand where you're coming from. Regarding God loving everyone, He does. His grace is what enables the lost to come to Him. He draws them. We are to show His love and be an encouragement. Maybe I'm not understanding your point. If not, can you let me know?

Thanks.

 

[amariselle]

What you're saying is true, and very important. We can't afford to take things out of context. However, if there is someone who is doubting themselves, a new Christian , or just anyone that is insecure, what right do we have to sit there and tell them about God's judgement. Sharing God's love with others is never wrong. Telling someone Jesus loves them when they're feeling unsure and out of place is never a lie, because Jesus does love us, and always will.

It isn't for us to judge others, we are to share God's love with one another.
Learning of the Lord's judgement, things like that are very important as well.
But let's say you wanted to talk with someone about the end times, well you would have to consider how well you knew it yourself.

I personally prefer to stay away from topics like that, I don't want to mislead anyone in any way. And I will never be 100% certain of what is going to occur when God judges us all. I have talked about it, but have just been honest in saying that I wasn't sure what was going to happen.

We are to strengthen one another's faith, and love each other.
Knowledge of the Bible is very important though, and just randomly flipping through it means you could be taking things out of context, I agree with you there.

And as you get to know the Lord, and read his word, which I know that I don't do nearly enough, then you learn about these things. I think it's important to make sure the person you want to share things in the Bible with, is ready to hear them, strong enough in their faith to hear them.

 

[whatseekye]

It is my fervently held belief that without repentance, there can be no true faith. I didn't read this as a doctrine and then believe it. I experienced it when I was born again. The Holy Spirit truly does work to bring the unrepentant sinner to a state of being able to comprehend personal and original sin, at least in a gut-level way. It seems like something that is very fundamental to being born again. Of course, without true belief in Jesus (which means a turning away from disbelief of Jesus, that is...another form of repentance, in this case, repentance of unbelief), a person can't know what they are hoping in which is the true forgiveness of sin and reliance on Jesus Christ. I can say that a person does not have to have this spelled out for them in order to go through it. Yet at the same time, there are many false conversions made where people think they are saved but have very weak faith that ends up coming to nothing. This explains the many people who just stop believing one day or go on for years living a dual life of Sunday saint, weekaday hellion. I don't mean this to sound judgemental. It just seems obvious to me, and there is a lot written on the subject. We all want to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith, not subject everyone else to critical examination. I think it's fair to represent the gospel of Christ as the true gospel which is repent and believe and be born again. That is true salvation which comes from really believing Jesus...believing who He is, believing what he taught, believing what he commanded, believing what he said would come...

Another reason that sin must be rebuked when preaching of salvation is that in this modern age, people are very stubborn about denying that they even sin at all. We have all "accepted" ourselves so much that we are in danger of trying to be Christians and also do whatever we think or feel is ok. But as the scriptures warn, there is a way that seems right to a man but leads to hell. It's my belief that if a person has the Holy Spirit, they can preach the truth without fearing the reaction of people and also with their words being received by the people. You shouldn't comprimise the gospel for fear of offending someone. On the other hand, you don't abuse the gospel by using it to abuse or dominate people. It's a fine line but God does enable many people to preach the Gospel.

 

[TheOriginalWhitehorse]

What you're saying is true, and very important. We can't afford to take things out of context. However, if there is someone who is doubting themselves, a new Christian , or just anyone that is insecure, what right do we have to sit there and tell them about God's judgement. Sharing God's love with others is never wrong. Telling someone Jesus loves them when they're feeling unsure and out of place is never a lie, because Jesus does love us, and always will.

I also believe in true, genuine encouragement; God does love His people and all those who will become His people by His sovereign will [Romans 9]. Anyone who puts his/her trust in Him and perseveres does so by His gracious will. Well, I'm not talking about failing to encourage, I'm talking about avoiding the terrrible mistake of giving false hope to ease a mental burden at the expense of giving real hope that eases a spiritual burden. It's saying, "Don't worry; God loves you" to someone who is in complete rebellion and who needs to hear,

Phillipians 2:12

Work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is the Lord who works in you to will and to act according to His good purpose.

One example from real life: a very, very well-meaning woman told her gangster son that God loved him. His response? "Then He can just keep loving me, then. I'm not stopping." His conclusion? He can live as a gangster and still get into heaven. God loves him. But there is no scriptural basis for telling just anyone that God loves them; instead we should do as Jesus did. Warn people of the coming judgment, and encourage them with the promises that can be had when the conditions for those promises have been met, and gently encourage them to put themselves under those conditions. Faith is a gift of God, and He responds to our earnest efforts.

So, the opposite of false hope isn't no hope; it's the truth of God's mercy, to those who put themselves under the right conditions to receive the promise. The hope is that the door is open to anyone who receives Jesus Christ as both Savior, and Lord.. That's the the rescue, but also the rulership. We cannot guarantee the eternal future of those who hate God or who persevere in rebellion against Him. Romans 9 is what I had in view, and there are so many other scriptures. It's not a matter of judging who God does or does not mean to save in His gracious sovereign will; we all deserve hell. The problem is a matter of promising salvation to those who do not understand the doctrine of repentance-and I also told people this, as a new Christian.

It isn't for us to judge others, we are to share God's love with one another.

Amen. And I think the best love we can offer is to gently encourage people into the whole truth, avoiding false hope that leads away from repentance.

Learning of the Lord's judgement, things like that are very important as well.
But let's say you wanted to talk with someone about the end times, well you would have to consider how well you knew it yourself.

A resounding amen.

I personally prefer to stay away from topics like that, I don't want to mislead anyone in any way. And I will never be 100% certain of what is going to occur when God judges us all. I have talked about it, but have just been honest in saying that I wasn't sure what was going to happen.

Amen-we can talk about what we know and study hard, realizing that God elects not to reveal everything; only that which is needful and beneficial to us.

We are to strengthen one another's faith, and love each other.
Knowledge of the Bible is very important though, and just randomly flipping through it means you could be taking things out of context, I agree with you there.

Right, and it has to be a real faith that we encourage. Someone who is in defiant rebellion has the hope of repentance through faith in Jesus Christ, not the faith of being saved while in rebellion. True faith always leads to repentance, and while we may struggle with it, backslide, make blunders, feel swayed by the flesh, if we trust in the Lord to bring repentance, He will, because He promises repentance to those who love Him. There are many verses on how we can assess ourselves to make sure our faith is genuine:

2 Corinthians 13:5

13:5Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith. Examine yourselves. Or do you not recognize for yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you?--unless you fail the test.

Good criterion are listed in 1 John. Such a huge portion of God's word is devoted to distinguishing real faith that can save from many slick counterfeits, that this has to be part of the story so we really are contributing to actual salvation so there won't be any surprises at the judgment.

And as you get to know the Lord, and read his word, which I know that I don't do nearly enough, then you learn about these things. I think it's important to make sure the person you want to share things in the Bible with, is ready to hear them, strong enough in their faith to hear them.

Discrimination is necessary. Tact is absolutely a necessity. I'm not saying we should discourage; I'm saying we should select the right verses to offer true hope of salvation instead of encouraging them when they aren't right with God. Instead, help them get right with God so they really are putting their faith in a solid spot.

Very good points-thanks for blessing us with them.

 

[TheOriginalWhitehorse]

I'm trying to understand where you're coming from. Regarding God loving everyone, He does. His grace is what enables the lost to come to Him. He draws them. We are to show His love and be an encouragement. Maybe I'm not understanding your point. If not, can you let me know?

Thanks.

Hi, Brinny. THanks for joining our discussion. I'm looking at the doctrine of God's sovereignty, and the need to repent. Repentance cannot save us since we can not be perfect enough, but it is always present as a manifestation of genuine faith in Christ. I'm looking at Romans 9. Also Ephesians 5:5:

5:5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Hebrews 12:16

12:16Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

The other side of the story is that God promises salvation to those who believe in Him, and if we confess our sins He will be faithful to cleanse us of them. But the above verses are the other side of the story and need to be heeded with great care, lest we fall. I attempt never give one truth without the other. When I warn, I always try to include the promises and what is necessary to have a right to those promises. I always try to mix encouragement in with the warnings, because that's what God seems to do in His word.

Amen-I do agree that God loves all those who are His own, or will be His one day through His gracious salvific work.

Good question-thanks for asking and participating.

 

[amariselle]

Thank you, you made some excellent points as well. Too often we don't think about how we live our lives and treat those around us.


We need to encourage all of our brothers and sisters, and pray for them.

 

[TheOriginalWhitehorse]

Amen, and amen. It's a good thing to consider, and give solid encouragement they can trust their eternal souls to.