Can anyone present a sophisticated information filled code that wasn't written/created with intelligence?
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
A code needs a coder.
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Warden_of_the_Storm
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How did a process involving random mutations where the extremely rare random mutation that is considered as beneficial create such a complex code?
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Quid est Veritas?
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Technically, to answer DNA is to beg the question since it is assuming that DNA arose from Natural Selection in a purely Naturalistic Materialist world. I assume the OP is inferring this is not the case.
For DNA to satisfy, it would therefore require us to show that its existance began independant of a creator in entirety or has always existed. This is a tall order and frankly not possible to show. For even if the initial event solely was due to such a being, the rest arising materialistically, all else would still follow from this first act.
Besides, DNA is created by choice of mates with some random mutations and recombination thrown in, so is only partially not the product of intelligence per se, even if inadvertently so.
Therefore another instance is likely sought for as DNA only works with the caveat of a predetermined worldview. The question as I understand it, rather asks this to either support DNA possibly being such a type of code or to undermine it if no other example can be given.
I would rather suggest Crystallisation or atomic energy states, although the idea of it being 'information filled code' is less clear cut.
For DNA to satisfy, it would therefore require us to show that its existance began independant of a creator in entirety or has always existed. This is a tall order and frankly not possible to show. For even if the initial event solely was due to such a being, the rest arising materialistically, all else would still follow from this first act.
Besides, DNA is created by choice of mates with some random mutations and recombination thrown in, so is only partially not the product of intelligence per se, even if inadvertently so.
Therefore another instance is likely sought for as DNA only works with the caveat of a predetermined worldview. The question as I understand it, rather asks this to either support DNA possibly being such a type of code or to undermine it if no other example can be given.
I would rather suggest Crystallisation or atomic energy states, although the idea of it being 'information filled code' is less clear cut.
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Of those mutations how many enhance the fitness of an organelle in a cell that the information in DNA is known to code for?
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If anyone goes to those links they find out that the mutations typically remove information rather than increase the information in the DNA.
It can be compared to taking the wheel off of a skateboard to allow it to slide down a hill.
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they lack working copies of a gene known as PCSK9,
Some people have a genetic mutation that disables their copy of the CCR5 protein.
Sickle cell anemia causes changes in the shape and makeup of red blood cells, which makes it difficult for them to flow through the blood stream and deliver adequate levels of oxygen.
The skateboard lacks wheels and now can slide down the hill easier.
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jayem
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Here's a series of 3 articles discussing how the genetic code could have developed by natural means, without a designer. They're somewhat technical. I'll start with the second one.
The author notes he's a Christian. BTW.
http://biologos.org/blogs/dennis-venema-/biological-information-and-intelligent-design-abiogenesis-and-the-origins-of-the-genetic-code
The author notes he's a Christian. BTW.
http://biologos.org/blogs/dennis-venema-/biological-information-and-intelligent-design-abiogenesis-and-the-origins-of-the-genetic-code
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Biologos mentioned Stephen Meyers...They also asked if the genetic code is really a code.
Here's a 3 1/2 min long video that Meyers did to show one of the processes in the cell. The answer becomes obvious pretty quick....DNA most defiantly is a code.
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From biologos:
- We believe that God created humans in biological continuity with all life on earth, but also as spiritual beings. God established a unique relationship with humanity by endowing us with his image and calling us to an elevated position within the created order.
but also as spiritual beings.....the question is when did this occur? Biologos would argue that sometime during human evolution God made the entire population spiritual beings. No where does the bible teach this. This concept adds to the Word of God.
God established a unique relationship with humanity by endowing us with his image. Once again Biologos departs from the biblical authority and adds to the Word of God.
and calling us to an elevated position within the created order. The bible tells us God on day 6 created us in an elevated position...not called us out of the animal kingdom.
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