A challenge.

[Brenlae]

EDIT - Thank zerosaiyaman for establishing my faith. I've never said this, but I think I can now believe in God.

 

[zerosaiyaman]

The wonderful thing about following Christ, is that one must simply have faith, and alone from there, through grace, does Christ lead and transform and fill and bless.

I, myself, am a biologist. Not someone simply going through college getting a major in it and saying that - I do real research, and though I am still at the beginning of things, I've already gotten a publication.

Science is a beautiful thing. Structured wonderfully, deeper than our limited understandings. All the time things we thought were silly or "would do differently", we find are rather important and interesting. Take "Junk DNA" for instance. Just this past year they've discovered that all DNA is transcribed, including the "junk", or long repeats known as satellite DNA. What does it do, why is it transcribed? Not only that, but some of the short lived pieces of RNA even make complex structures, docking stations and scaffolds for other short lived pieces. All wiped out faster than our previous techniques could see by the exosome (only depleting parts of the exosome can you see these short lived RNAs).

It's wonderful, and exciting for a scientist. It blows all our ideas and understandings out of the water. So much to do. Yet from a strictly chemical standpoint, this endless complexity makes no sense. From the view of random chance, change, and optimization, it is too superfluous. Yet it all has some role. Each balanced thermodynamic reaction, the constants by which we express them are so perfectly calibrated, if off by even a slight amount life would be impossible and simply become inert matter.

It is my belief that by God's hand this complexity exists, for idle minds to enjoy and marvel at. Every time some scientist thinks some area is solved, we discovered it isn't at all. There's always something just under the surface that turns out preconceptions on their heads - but in a random world this shouldn't happen, from the sheer math of it we know that. But science by itself is a mirror of that rule. On its own, "reason" and "logic" are cold and inert, they have no direction or purpose. Health care for the elderly drains our system, takes money from places we could better spend it, logic says it should be cut out, reason says there's no point grasping on to life. But faith says we want to show our love, we want to do what's right, because what we have we've been given, and what is right has been passed down to us by someone greater.

Looking through history, the prophesies that have come true, the naming and description of Cyrus the Meed 200 years before his birth by Isaiah, the re-foundation of Israel as a country in 1948 as clearly foretold when it seemed absolutely impossible, and so much more.. the rise and fall of civilizations.. we see only one thing is constant, God's will. And that will is to trust and believe in Him.

No matter where you are in life, no matter what you do or think, you can still trust Him, as you've never done. Not trust in the sense of a selfish human wish to get something you might want singularly - which could certainly happen, but why should it? How do we know our desires lead to anything good? - but trust that He is in control and who He says He is, and will guide both you and the events of your life to your best, to your good, if you love Him as He promises. Does that mean no pain? Does not a vaccination hurt? Or exercise burn? Rather, it means at the end of it all, you will not be destroyed, but greater than ever before, and not of yourself. Anyone who's lived knows that by ourselves we amount to little; though some people do a good job trying to convince themselves otherwise, foolishly.

The choice is always yours, and yours alone to whom you'll give your life, and what you'll make your god. Will you make it the all powerful one, who despite having the immensity of the cosmos in His hands (150 billion odd galaxies, 100 million to a trillion stars each), still loved and considered you, personally enough, to die for in a mortal sense that you might not be snuffed out in the end despite all your short comings and infinitesimal nature? Or will you choose to make your god something else, something more familiar and human like (i.e. any other god in any other religions)? Or will you choose to make your god "science", founded completely on the human mind and ability to imagine, and which is nothing more than the expression of people to perceive the world around them and deduce and use the rules by which it operates, having no meaning beyond such (even though it's so much fun for someone like me!)?

A biased set of rhetorical questions, perhaps. But you've never really looked at Christianity, not the actual following of Christ, of God. There's none like Him, and science is nothing more than us understanding what He did - it is never against God, not any more than a lizard poking around its terrarium can say anything about the greater workings of the person who keeps it. Believe and trust and accept Christ, which is all that's required irregardless of your or my shortcomings at this time, or not; that freedom to choose, the possible consequences and fate, are all yours. And oh, is there ever a freedom in Christ and a hope you can get no where else, and requires nothing blind.

 

[Brenlae]

zerosaiyaman, you've just given my faith back to me.

Thank you.

 

[BrotherOfJesusChrist]

zerosaiyaman, considering that you are independent and intelligent enough, I request that you give God’s design, and by extension God, 100% of the credit in your research, and that you do not descend into telling evolution stories. I always find evolution stories attached to research amusing and irrelevant, but besides that, they make a mockery of science. This is not to say you cannot discuss how things change, which can be totally appropriate, and should not be thought of as contradicting God’s hands in things.

Don’t get me wrong. Given that unbelieving interests-I assume undemocratically-have hijacked the leadership of the academic world, you likely cannot pass through the academic system without learning the Evolution religion. But hopefully, it will be to you just another subject you are forced to study, and you do not lose sight of the reality of God.

 

[SoundCard]

zerosaiyaman, considering that you are independent and intelligent enough, I request that you give God’s design, and by extension God, 100% of the credit in your research, and that you do not descend into telling evolution stories. I always find evolution stories attached to research amusing and irrelevant, but besides that, they make a mockery of science. This is not to say you cannot discuss how things change, which can be totally appropriate, and should not be thought of as contradicting God’s hands in things.

Don’t get me wrong. Given that unbelieving interests-I assume undemocratically-have hijacked the leadership of the academic world, you likely cannot pass through the academic system without learning the Evolution religion. But hopefully, it will be to you just another subject you are forced to study, and you do not lose sight of the reality of God.

Um, I hate to burst your bubble, but I don't think he actually said anything supporting evolution. I know the guy personally, and have for 7 years, the guy's a creationist. In fact, he didn't even mention anything about evolution, he's talking about processes undergone during the transcription of DNA, and just talking about existing biological processes does not equal belief in evolution. Please read thoroughly before coming to such conclusions.

 

[BrotherOfJesusChrist]

I know he did not say anything supporting Evolution. My post intended to bridge belief to practice (or ensure the bridge is there,) but in a moderate way.

True, he did not mention Evolution by name, but he did allude to wrong science, and by that, I assume today the "science" is Evolution. You may make a different assumption.

 

[Svt4Him]

You think now you can believe in God? What about a few months from now, will you be able to then? I think a faith you are talked into is one you can be talked out of, so my advise is to meet God and find out if He is or isn't real. Then it's not a matter of what you think it's a matter of truth.

 

[Hugga_Bear]

I agree with Svt4Him, you should choose your own faith, regardless of what that may be, by all means allow external opinion, but do not simply follow a clever mind.


zerosayaiman;
I do not pretend to have fully researched this, but I have a good grasp of the replication of DNA.

The wonderful thing about following Christ, is that one must simply have faith, and alone from there, through grace, does Christ lead and transform and fill and bless.

I, myself, am a biologist. Not someone simply going through college getting a major in it and saying that - I do real research, and though I am still at the beginning of things, I've already gotten a publication.

Science is a beautiful thing. Structured wonderfully, deeper than our limited understandings. All the time things we thought were silly or "would do differently", we find are rather important and interesting. Take "Junk DNA" for instance. Just this past year they've discovered that all DNA is transcribed, including the "junk", or long repeats known as satellite DNA. What does it do, why is it transcribed? Not only that, but some of the short lived pieces of RNA even make complex structures, docking stations and scaffolds for other short lived pieces. All wiped out faster than our previous techniques could see by the exosome (only depleting parts of the exosome can you see these short lived RNAs).

I agree science, or the scientific method is a wonderful thing.

You ask why junk DNA is replicated, how is this evidence FOR an Intelligent Designer? (IDr) In my view it makes strong evidence against one, it no longer serves a purpose (as mutations of it show). I confess interest to your mention of the shorter lived RNA, I have not seen this before.

It's wonderful, and exciting for a scientist. It blows all our ideas and understandings out of the water. So much to do. Yet from a strictly chemical standpoint, this endless complexity makes no sense. From the view of random chance, change, and optimization, it is too superfluous. Yet it all has some role. Each balanced thermodynamic reaction, the constants by which we express them are so perfectly calibrated, if off by even a slight amount life would be impossible and simply become inert matter.

As a biologist you must understand that is not pure chance, evolution has little to do with chance whatsoever. As for the perfection of our environment, on every level up to (or down to, depending on your view) the chemical/atomic level it is straightforward. There it does indeed get more interesting. Personally I have read various hypotheses and found them interesting in their explanations and much more straight forward than an Intelligent Designer. (Such studies include the infinite universes, multiverses, phantom energy etc).

It is my belief that by God's hand this complexity exists, for idle minds to enjoy and marvel at.

Then I state you are not a scientist. You do not approach this with a scientific mind, but an irrational one. There is no evidence for the existence of an IDr, much less the Christian God. I do not dispute your faith, just your approach to your belief as presented here.

Every time some scientist thinks some area is solved, we discovered it isn't at all. There's always something just under the surface that turns out preconceptions on their heads - but in a random world this shouldn't happen, from the sheer math of it we know that.

Would like to see math.
We never believed an area to be solved, or at least not the greater of us. Everything we see is a new wonder to be looked at, everything we dont a marvel to be explored. Once we think we have found something, we let others look at it, then we look at how it connects, where is it wrong where does it fit, what bit isn't right? What could be bias? What is absolute? Science cannot assume. It is an impossibility.

But science by itself is a mirror of that rule. On its own, "reason" and "logic" are cold and inert, they have no direction or purpose. Health care for the elderly drains our system, takes money from places we could better spend it, logic says it should be cut out, reason says there's no point grasping on to life. But faith says we want to show our love, we want to do what's right, because what we have we've been given, and what is right has been passed down to us by someone greater.

here we delve into philosophy. Standing back and being totally logical it is indeed illogical to spend money on healthcare on the elderly or disabled. However I dispute that it was passed down by an IDr. Morality has been looked at as a by product of altruism (where I think the current emphasis still lies) and fits well. Again, there is no evidence for an IDr so no reason to suppose it above research.

Looking through history, the prophesies that have come true, the naming and description of Cyrus the Meed 200 years before his birth by Isaiah, the re-foundation of Israel as a country in 1948 as clearly foretold when it seemed absolutely impossible, and so much more.. the rise and fall of civilizations.. we see only one thing is constant, God's will. And that will is to trust and believe in Him.

Ignoring the prophecies (as many are unfulfilled and those fulfilled are debatable) a common question (which I have yet to receive an answer for) is why your God requires our worship. The closest anyone has come to answering this was to say that their God was wonderful and so deserving of worship. I am afraid that this is not a strong reason, mostly because it strongly implies extreme vanity and the supposition that worship is greater than living a good life.

No matter where you are in life, no matter what you do or think, you can still trust Him, as you've never done. Not trust in the sense of a selfish human wish to get something you might want singularly - which could certainly happen, but why should it? How do we know our desires lead to anything good? - but trust that He is in control and who He says He is, and will guide both you and the events of your life to your best, to your good, if you love Him as He promises. Does that mean no pain? Does not a vaccination hurt? Or exercise burn? Rather, it means at the end of it all, you will not be destroyed, but greater than ever before, and not of yourself. Anyone who's lived knows that by ourselves we amount to little; though some people do a good job trying to convince themselves otherwise, foolishly.

I agree in part. I do not agree that a deity's will is the presiding factor, though i do strongly agree that our individual lives mean little to the world. However it ends there. I have multiple friends and family. I have people who respect me and many people who turn to me for help with their lives problems. Were I to go today and leave them (by whatever means) their lives would be altered, I think for the worst (though i could be wrong). We do matter, a lot, to people around us. Of these people I love everyone with all my heart, I truly do. If any one of them was to be taken from me (as has happened in the past) then I know it would be very painful. We mean little to the world, but to our own corner of it we mean a lot.

The choice is always yours, and yours alone to whom you'll give your life, and what you'll make your god. Will you make it the all powerful one, who despite having the immensity of the cosmos in His hands (150 billion odd galaxies, 100 million to a trillion stars each), still loved and considered you, personally enough, to die for in a mortal sense that you might not be snuffed out in the end despite all your short comings and infinitesimal nature?

Never understood Jesus' sacrifice...
Regardless, why does a deity demand such a cost as your life? A leap of faith is one thing but asking you to stake everything on nothing is too far, especially for a rational mind.

Or will you choose to make your god something else, something more familiar and human like (i.e. any other god in any other religions)? Or will you choose to make your god "science", founded completely on the human mind and ability to imagine, and which is nothing more than the expression of people to perceive the world around them and deduce and use the rules by which it operates, having no meaning beyond such (even though it's so much fun for someone like me!)?

Science cannot be a god or worshipped as such. So I agree with your nect statement \/

A biased set of rhetorical questions, perhaps. But you've never really looked at Christianity, not the actual following of Christ, of God. There's none like Him, and science is nothing more than us understanding what He did - it is never against God, not any more than a lizard poking around its terrarium can say anything about the greater workings of the person who keeps it. Believe and trust and accept Christ, which is all that's required irregardless of your or my shortcomings at this time, or not; that freedom to choose, the possible consequences and fate, are all yours. And oh, is there ever a freedom in Christ and a hope you can get no where else, and requires nothing blind.

I disagree that it requires nothing blind, it requires blind faith. It requires blind belief. There is no evidence for its existence.

However. Happiness is where you find it. Regardless of what brings you that happiness you should pursue it, be it science, friends, a god or collecting dustbins.
I await your reply and apologise for any implied rudeness or irritation, I am not used to debating civil opposition and often come off as crude; it is not meant.