A chalange to belivers in Evolution

[tocis]

If you can calculate the number of CHANCE that all this exist by CHANSE then you will sertanly know the number of your ignorance !bb

You're right, it's ridiculous.

I'm glad to see you agree that Odin Allfather must have created the universe.

Disagree? Then prove me wrong.

 

[Animus]

You know, we have actually witnessed evolution. Anyone ever actually seen God?

 

[Lord Emsworth]

You'r giving me a headache
I asked 1 bilion times and repeated myself 5 zilion times ...
What made these laws ?

Can quantum mechanic scinatist make a new law for the atoms and change the behavior of the particles in them ?

NO !

Laws are descriptions of how things behave. They aren't prescriptions.

Only God can and God did !

"Only God Can [make such laws]" would be law itself.

And here it all crumbles.


(Rest snipped because of too many smilies)

 

[Kahalachan]

I can beat ANY evolution or materialistic theory just with one question

WHY ?

To cut things short please take some time to ask the question WHY to your belives and post something when you are shure that you can't ask the question WHY anymore

Why is a philosophical question and not so much scientific. However, as a theistic evolutionist, I will address the Why.......




People will ask why God allows suffering or gripe about death. It is painful, yes. It's how we came into existence though. Evolution could not happen without death, suffering, and needing to overcome everything that would cause us suffering. We could not have existed if God hadn't created us through evolution.

I see so many lessons from evolution

It was our ancestor's ability to adapt, be creative, and overcome adversity that led to the dawn of man. It was their cooperation in social groups that allowed them to flourish. Selfishness, and not looking to the future is what led to the demise of the other homonids.


Too many moral and physical questions come up with creation. Why didn't God tell Adam and Eve "If a snake comes to tell you that the tree won't kill you, ignore that little liar." How could our population have escalated to 6 billion in 10, 000 years, when we know that population rises exponentially and can mathematically calculate population trends? etc. etc. etc.


With evolution, we can see God allowed pain and suffering to create us and we have no right to question why it exists, because our very ability to question comes from the fact suffering exists to produce a more inquisitive mind.

God has shown us, through evolution, that when we adapt and overcome adversity, we survive better. We can see God's purpose in our lives through the mechanism that God used to create us. To trust in God, do the best we can and overcome our struggles, and advance ourselves. To be benevolent and cooperative because that is what led to our existence.

For millions of years humans have survived by working together and overcoming our environment. Now things are different. We can create our own environments and are less susceptible to the natural environment. "Love your neighbor as yourself" is what leads to human progress. I'm sure Christ knew that because we would create artificial environments to suit our survival, that we could work in opposition to the millions of years of God's perfectly organized mechanism of evolution, by not cooperating as best we can, and hurt our very own survival.

No matter which one is true, it is beautiful how our minds can pick which belief suits our lifestyle best, and even that is a selection of ideas where only the ideas most fit for the individual will survive.

 

[AV1611VET]

Hello, Dimitree

Here are my top three favorite questions to Evolutionists:

• 1. Explain evolution in light of a 6000 year universe - (Genesis 1).
  2. Since God pronounced His Creation "very good" in Genesis 1:31 - why the need for Evolution?
  3. Since Jesus didn't believe in Evolution - (Mark 10:6; 13:19) - why should we?

BUMPED FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION

 

[Shemjaza]

It's trivial AV.

Evolution is a consequence of how life and chemistry function.

Incidentally, is Dimetree really you? (A bunch of people seemed to think so 16 years ago).

 

[AV1611VET]

Incidentally, is Dimetree really you?

No.

 

[Freodin]

Ah, the memories! All the old folks! Friends. Fo... not-friends. And a time where I still had the patience to engage with people like JohnR7 and AV. We are getting ol... embedded with more age.

I find it quite interesting to revisit old threads like this one. I find it quite interesting that after more than a decade later, I still can stand behind each of my posts... the serious and the snarky.

But I see that I never answered the original question. Which is also... interesting, because it was indeed the world-shattering revelation/realization that set me on this path here: that "why?" might be a meaningless question.

A bit sad: Dimetree will never see this... and if AV wants to chime in on it, I will never see it. I lost my patience with him long ago.

 

[AV1611VET]

A bit sad: Dimetree will never see this... and if AV wants to chime in on it, I will never see it. I lost my patience with him long ago.

Academia has that affect on people.

It's called "intolerance."

 

[Yttrium]

Well, then. I never participated in this thread, so I might as well give it a go now.

I'm not a firm believer in the Theory of Evolution. I just think that it's by far the most likely explanation for the development of life on Earth.

Why?

Thanks to a couple biology courses in college, I developed a basic understanding of genetics, and the process of evolution. Populations of organisms can change over time. We can observe mutation and selection in progress, and study it in laboratory conditions. Evolution happens. Lots of little changes can add up to big changes over long periods of time and many generations. We don't know of anything in the DNA that would prevent change past a certain point. And patterns in the genes and in the fossil record align with common descent.

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

 

[Astrophile]

3. Since Jesus didn't believe in Evolution - (Mark 10:6; 13:19) - why should we?

In Mark 10:6, Jesus was talking about marriage and divorce, not about evolution. In Mark 13:14-31, he was warning his followers of the imminence of his return 'to gather his elect from the four winds'; he was not talking about evolution.

 

[Astrophile]

Make ANY statement about evolution
And then ask the question why
then ask why to the answer and to the answers answer

You will reach to one point no matter what was your first statement

The (now extinct) dodo was confined to the island of Mauritius. Why?

 

[dlamberth]

BUMPED FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION

1. Explain evolution in light of a 6000 year universe - (Genesis 1).
No such thing as a 6000 year universe, so the way the
question is framed is not possible to answer

2. Since God pronounced His Creation "very good" in Genesis 1:31 - why the need for Evolution?
Evolution is needed because that's how God creates new and continuing types of life forms.

3. Since Jesus didn't believe in Evolution - (Mark 10:6; 13:19) - why should we?
That was about marriage and being a more human Human Being.

 

[AV1611VET]

1. Explain evolution in light of a 6000 year universe - (Genesis 1).
No such thing as a 6000 year universe, so the way the
question is framed is not possible to answer

2. Since God pronounced His Creation "very good" in Genesis 1:31 - why the need for Evolution?
Evolution is needed because that's how God creates new and continuing types of life forms.

3. Since Jesus didn't believe in Evolution - (Mark 10:6; 13:19) - why should we?
That was about marriage and being a more human Human Being.

You don't want me to grade this, do you?

 

[AV1611VET]

Here's a test I made up some time ago, Lamberth -- and I'll post it again, just for you!

Creationist Test:

1. Explain the difference between creatio ex nihilo and creatio ex materia; and give two examples of each.
2. Explain the difference between "God" and "LORD God".
3. Eden in the Bible is known as __________ on a map.
4. The triune Godhead is a violation of what law?
5. Put the following in order that they appeared in the universe: whales, stars, trees, sun, land, sea, outer space.
6. What day was Adam created on?
7. Was the universe created a closed system and, if not, what kind of energy did it run off of? if it was created open, what closed it?
8. Describe terra aqua and what kind of water it consisted of and why.
9. Photosynthesis required light from the sun prior to the Fall. true or false?
10. Explain how a 24-hour day could transpire before the sun was created.

 

[dlamberth]

Here's a test I made up some time ago, Lamberth -- and I'll post it again, just for you!

Creationist Test:

1- Explain the difference between creatio ex nihilo and creatio ex materia; and give two examples of each.
Creatio ex Nihilo would be creating things out of nothing.
I cannot think of any examples

Creatio ex Materia the way I understand it is creating using eternally existing matter.
I cannot think of any examples

2- Explain the difference between "God" and "LORD God".
“God” is the Life Force running through and within all of the Cosmos.
“Lord God” is a human construct for the need to worship a physical form.

3- Eden in the Bible is known as __________ on a map.
Eden is known as a Myth…an imagination of paradise that has never existed
outside of the imagination.

4-The triune Godhead is a violation of what law?
The Law of Oneness

5-Put the following in order that they appeared in the universe: whales, stars, trees, sun, land, sea, outer space.
None of the above.
Energy first appeared. One could even say from some perspectives that
energy is Light

6- What day was Adam created on?
No such thing as a “Created” Adam.
Adam is Humanity, which evolved as us Human Beings.

7-Was the universe created a closed system and, if not, what kind of energy did it run off of? if it was created open, what closed it?
The Universe is infinitely open. It is forever changing and evolving
in potential and actuality.

8-Describe terra aqua and what kind of water it consisted of and why.
That would be lands that have submerges since the Ice Age melt.

9-Photosynthesis required light from the sun prior to the Fall. true or false?
No such thing as the “Fall”.
Photosynthesis has been around for roughly 3.5 Billion years.

10- Explain how a 24-hour day could transpire before the sun was created.
Not possible. The 24 hour day is tied to the transit of the sun.
Science even suggests that way in the distance past the days
were somewhat shorter.

 

[Estrid]

1. Explain evolution in light of a 6000 year universe - (Genesis 1).
No such thing as a 6000 year universe, so the way the
question is framed is not possible to answer

2. Since God pronounced His Creation "very good" in Genesis 1:31 - why the need for Evolution?
Evolution is needed because that's how God creates new and continuing types of life forms.

3. Since Jesus didn't believe in Evolution - (Mark 10:6; 13:19) - why should we?
That was about marriage and being a more human Human Being.

If people think God says it's very good
how do they get to say they hate things like bats?

 

[Estrid]

1- Explain the difference between creatio ex nihilo and creatio ex materia; and give two examples of each.
Creatio ex Nihilo would be creating things out of nothing.
I cannot think of any examples

Creatio ex Materia the way I understand it is creating using eternally existing matter.
I cannot think of any examples

2- Explain the difference between "God" and "LORD God".
“God” is the Life Force running through and within all of the Cosmos.
“Lord God” is a human construct for the need to worship a physical form.

3- Eden in the Bible is known as __________ on a map.
Eden is known as a Myth…an imagination of paradise that has never existed
outside of the imagination.

4-The triune Godhead is a violation of what law?
The Law of Oneness

5-Put the following in order that they appeared in the universe: whales, stars, trees, sun, land, sea, outer space.
None of the above.
Energy first appeared. One could even say from some perspectives that
energy is Light

6- What day was Adam created on?
No such thing as a “Created” Adam.
Adam is Humanity, which evolved as us Human Beings.

7-Was the universe created a closed system and, if not, what kind of energy did it run off of? if it was created open, what closed it?
The Universe is infinitely open. It is forever changing and evolving
in potential and actuality.

8-Describe terra aqua and what kind of water it consisted of and why.
That would be lands that have submerges since the Ice Age melt.

9-Photosynthesis required light from the sun prior to the Fall. true or false?
No such thing as the “Fall”.
Photosynthesis has been around for roughly 3.5 Billion years.

10- Explain how a 24-hour day could transpire before the sun was created.
Not possible. The 24 hour day is tied to the transit of the sun.
Science even suggests that way in the distance past the days
were somewhat shorter.

It's not just "suggests".

It's obvious the tidal drag from the
moon will slowr rotation.

The power for tides has to come from somewhere.

The moon is locked with one side facing us.

There are varves and corals that record
more days in a year

 

[Astrophile]

Here's a test I made up some time ago, Lamberth -- and I'll post it again, just for you!

Creationist Test

1. Put the following in order that they appeared in the universe: whales, stars, trees, sun, land, sea, outer space.
2. Was the universe created a closed system and, if not, what kind of energy did it run off of? if it was created open, what closed it?
3. Photosynthesis required light from the sun prior to the Fall. true or false?
4. Explain how a 24-hour day could transpire before the sun was created.

1. Outer space, stars, sun, probably land, probably sea, trees, whales.
2. I don't know. What is your answer?
3. True.
4. The Sun formed about 30 million years before the Earth, so the light from the Sun was already present when the Earth began its history as a rotating planet.

 

[The happy Objectivist]

I can beat ANY evolution or materialistic theory just with one question

WHY ?

To cut things short please take some time to ask the question WHY to your belives and post something when you are shure that you can't ask the question WHY anymore

And I can answer your why in every case.

Why do populations of living organisms evolve?

Because of the interaction between the environment and genetic variation.

Why is there genetic variation in populations?

Because DNA changes over time and these changes get passed to the next generation.

Why does DNA change over time?

Causality: entities acting and interacting according to their nature.

Why do entities act in accordance with their nature? Because existence exists and A is A.

Isn't it interesting how the special sciences rest on philosophy? Can you point to where the above regression transitions from biology to philosophy?

We started out with a question about biology and we ended up with the most fundamental philosophical axiom.

All truths reduce to A is A because all truths are statements that essentially say that some aspect of reality is what it is.