Ignatius the Kiwi
Dissident
- Mar 2, 2013
- 9,066
- 4,763
- Country
- New Zealand
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Eastern Orthodox
- Marital Status
- Single
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
I look forward to it.I'm not an egytologist or great expert in history, and a quick google search mostly came up with christian sites that were written to disprove such a claim. I currently have no time to look into this, am a bit busy and it's getting late. I'll take a closer look tomorrow.
How many of these things have you verified for yourself?1. at least 25 fulfilled, Old Testament predictions of this Messiah's coming. To accurately predict this requires total control over the future events and the power to make them happen; ergo knowledge and power. (Isaiah 7.14;9.6; Micah 5.2)
2. supernatural conception (aka Virgin Birth) of Jesus (Luke 1.26-38). This is predicted in advance. God's Holy Spirit power brings it to pass.
3. Jesus lived a sinless life. (2 Cor 5.21; 1 Ptr 1.18-19)
4. Jesus the Savior died for His followers--fully paid for their sins.
5. Jesus forgives sin, removes the guilt. (Jn 8.32; Matt 11.28-30; Jn 10.10).
6. Promises eternal life as a FREE gift (Rom 6.23; Jn 6.37;10.28; 1 Jn 2.25;Tit 3.5)
7. Resurrected bodily from the grave
8. Co-creator of nature - Jn 1.1-3; Col 1.16-17; Heb 1.2,10)
Hephaestus was born of Zeus and Hera, although Hesiod records an alternate legend that Hera bore him alone in revenge for Zeus having Athena jump fully formed from his forehead. This is in contradiction with most other legends that Hephaestus was the one that struck Zeus with an axe to free Athena in the first place.Well, I can't tell you of an example of something like that happening, because I don't think it's possible.
But the myths predate christianity. Examples would be several greek gods like Hephaestus, Krishna, Horus, Marjatta, the list goes on.
Really, if one wanted to make a mythical figure special, strange circumstances around the birth and pregnancy were very common.
1. at least 25 fulfilled, Old Testament predictions of this Messiah's coming. To accurately predict this requires total control over the future events and the power to make them happen; ergo knowledge and power. (Isaiah 7.14;9.6; Micah 5.2)
2. supernatural conception (aka Virgin Birth) of Jesus (Luke 1.26-38). This is predicted in advance. God's Holy Spirit power brings it to pass.
3. Jesus lived a sinless life. (2 Cor 5.21; 1 Ptr 1.18-19)
4. Jesus the Savior died for His followers--fully paid for their sins.
5. Jesus forgives sin, removes the guilt. (Jn 8.32; Matt 11.28-30; Jn 10.10).
6. Promises eternal life as a FREE gift (Rom 6.23; Jn 6.37;10.28; 1 Jn 2.25;Tit 3.5)
7. Resurrected bodily from the grave
8. Co-creator of nature - Jn 1.1-3; Col 1.16-17; Heb 1.2,10)
Are you saying that you can prove that the other virgin births were false but Jesus's was true?Why are you even interested in saying anything on a Christian forum?
BTW virgin 'myths' may be plenty, but an actual virgin 'birth' is unique.
Look into it, you might be surprised and pleased with our Savior.
I said AT LEAST 25 to reduce disagreement. But yes, lots more!! Praise God. Man made religions do not have such predictions for their founders. Why not? One must have total control of history---the power and knowledge to make it happen!
So you agree that most of these unique features are valid? Good.I wouldn't call all of these unique. Virgin pregnancies, for example, are part of many myths, often predating christianity by centuries.
Right then. After a few more searches, I've come to the conclusion that I can't tell. Nearly all sites are blatantly partisan on the issue and I couldn't find any serious historical source. I guess I could go to the local university library and start browsing history books, but truth be told, I'm not that invested and it's cold outside. Similiar things happen when one searches for Krishna or all the other virgin birth myths, they are either so obscure that nobody writes about them or you have some christian or anti-christian blogs shouting at each other, both quoting various sources.I look forward to it.
It is useful and true for me . . totally changed my life!Outsiders have no idea how much they are missing. I was an outsider for 31 years. I had no clue.Just because something is unique doesn't make it true or usefull, y'know?
1. at least 25 fulfilled, Old Testament predictions of this Messiah's coming. To accurately predict this requires total control over the future events and the power to make them happen; ergo knowledge and power. (Isaiah 7.14;9.6; Micah 5.2)
2. supernatural conception (aka Virgin Birth) of Jesus (Luke 1.26-38). This is predicted in advance. God's Holy Spirit power brings it to pass.
3. Jesus lived a sinless life. (2 Cor 5.21; 1 Ptr 1.18-19)
4. Jesus the Savior died for His followers--fully paid for their sins.
5. Jesus forgives sin, removes the guilt. (Jn 8.32; Matt 11.28-30; Jn 10.10).
6. Promises eternal life as a FREE gift (Rom 6.23; Jn 6.37;10.28; 1 Jn 2.25;Tit 3.5)
7. Resurrected bodily from the grave
8. Co-creator of nature - Jn 1.1-3; Col 1.16-17; Heb 1.2,10)
Right then. After a few more searches, I've come to the conclusion that I can't tell. Nearly all sites are blatantly partisan on the issue and I couldn't find any serious historical source. I guess I could go to the local university library and start browsing history books, but truth be told, I'm not that invested and it's cold outside. Similiar things happen when one searches for Krishna or all the other virgin birth myths, they are either so obscure that nobody writes about them or you have some christian or anti-christian blogs shouting at each other, both quoting various sources.
So I'll concede the point. There were plenty of "special circumstances of birth" myths, but I can't prove there were any virgin birth myths pre-jesus.
1. at least 25 fulfilled, Old Testament predictions of this Messiah's coming. To accurately predict this requires total control over the future events and the power to make them happen; ergo knowledge and power. (Isaiah 7.14;9.6; Micah 5.2)
2. supernatural conception (aka Virgin Birth) of Jesus (Luke 1.26-38). This is predicted in advance. God's Holy Spirit power brings it to pass.
3. Jesus lived a sinless life. (2 Cor 5.21; 1 Ptr 1.18-19)
4. Jesus the Savior died for His followers--fully paid for their sins.
5. Jesus forgives sin, removes the guilt. (Jn 8.32; Matt 11.28-30; Jn 10.10).
6. Promises eternal life as a FREE gift (Rom 6.23; Jn 6.37;10.28; 1 Jn 2.25;Tit 3.5)
7. Resurrected bodily from the grave
8. Co-creator of nature - Jn 1.1-3; Col 1.16-17; Heb 1.2,10)
There's nothing to look into. We know how babies are made, and apart from that, virgin's can't get pregnant.Why are you even interested in saying anything on a Christian forum?
BTW virgin 'myths' may be plenty, but an actual virgin 'birth' is unique.
Look into it, you might be surprised and pleased with our Savior.
Yep! That's what the Bible says, too! Virgins...and barren women...can't get pregnant. Amazing point, that, isn't it?There's nothing to look into. We know how babies are made, and apart from that, virgin's can't get pregnant.
Yeah, we can just all rely on this simplistic "go to" of an explanation (excuse); that way, no one has to cull through hundreds of pages of ancient Jewish literary mush to find bits and pieces of inter-textual allusions, overlapping contexts, and mystical expressions to consider.The word "alma" was mistranslated by the anonymous author of Matthew as virgin, and set into play an entire doctrine that is untenable.
Just because something is unique doesn't make it true or usefull, y'know?
Yep! That's what the Bible says, too! Virgins...and barren women...can't get pregnant. Amazing point, that, isn't it?
Yeah, we can just all rely on this simplistic "go to" of an explanation (excuse); that way, no one has to cull through hundreds of pages of ancient Jewish literary mush to find bits and pieces of inter-textual allusions, overlapping contexts, and mystical expressions to consider.
Having little or no work to do when considering religious faith, even that of Christian faith, is just too intuitively compelling of a principle to pass up, isn't it?
I don't see how it matters. Even if we take "almah" to be "virgin," the virgin birth prophecy is utterly untenable.
Formal Debate --"Does Matthew take Isaiah 7:14 out of context?"
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?