.

grandvizier1006 said:

Yeah, from what I hear public schools vary in terms of success. (I went to private schools considered high-quality).

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Yes. It varies between districts, and to some degree within a district.

thatbrian said:

And, putting bike helmets on their little heads doesn't prepare them for the real-world experience of a concussion.

Parents are supposed to protect children. That's job #1.

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You've missed the point. A better analogy would be for parents to not allow children to ride bicycles.

Depends on the parent, the child, and their relationship.

I attended public school for 9 years until my sophomore year when I move to a Christian school (I am now in my senior year). Public school can have a negative or positive effect on your children, mostly it's both, though. I was friends with a lot of Christian kids from middle school to high school, and a lot of them changed drastically to fit in with their peers. My best friend started harboring some beliefs that I was not comfortable with at all and I couldn't talk about them in front of her; this friend and her two brothers gradually have stopped coming to church, and I know this change happened because of their shift from homeschooling to public school in eighth grade.

But some Christian kids' faith can be invigorated by being in public school, as mine was; in fact, I actually think I had a stronger faith in the public school than I do now in a Christian school (though I had few friends). I engaged in a lot of religious discussion and debate with my classmates, as well as listening and understanding what they believed in while trying to evangelize. In this way, I think Christians kids can learn to become more tolerant and compassionate towards unbelievers, but only if they are raised to be strong enough in their faith that the world does not persuade them otherwise, which I saw often in my group of friends. I did have a couple of friends that were made stronger in their faith by going to the public school, though.

The Christian students who started to fall away usually had parents that they were more disconnected with, or they just weren't happy with their family life, which is why I say that if you put your kids in the public school, you NEED to have a strong, trusting relationship. Your kid might not just fall away if you don't, they may also not tell you if they're getting bullied at school or online, which is very common and can lead to something detrimental. I knew some kids who were bullied to the point that they were cutting themselves; please, PLEASE make sure your kid knows they can trust you. A lot of these problems I saw could have been easily solved if the student had just told a parent or authority figure.

As far as homeschooling goes, I have mixed feelings about it. I think that it can be very helpful in keeping your kid close to God, and they can get a great education that way! But not everyone is cut out for homeschooling. I know a family in my church who home-school their kids, and they are NOT prepared for the "outside world" at all. College is going to be a bit of a shock for them, because they are far too sheltered. They are also not very strict about their studies; their sixteen year old daughter hasn't even finished a chapter book and doesn't read very well at all. On the other hand, I know a lot of home-schooled Christians who are very intelligent and strong in their faith, but some of these kids I know are also too judgmental simply because they haven't been exposed to other people's struggles.

Private Christian schooling is another option, but again, your kid could end up being too sheltered if it isn't the right school or parenting. I enjoy the more relaxed atmosphere and had a much easier time finding friends at my new school, which is great, but I found that I got almost as much Christian edification at the public school as I do at the Christian school. The Christian school is also very expensive, so my family has had to make some sacrifices so I could go there. I know a girl at the school whose mom is working 2 or 3 jobs so she can attend.

Bottom line is, make sure you have a strong relationship with your children. If you know each other well enough, you can make the right decision for both of you.

thatbrian said:

Homeschooling your children is like not letting them ride a bike?!

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Yes.

By letting them attend a public school, you are allowing them to "ride a bike." By preparing them to withstand the temptations and trials of public school and staying involved in their lives, you are "giving them a helmet." You've let them take some risk, but you've given them some critical protection. They may fall and skin their knee but the helmet will protect them from a truly serious injury.

Put all of this in the context of my statement about the decision depending on the child (the parents) and the school.

There are pros and cons, just like everything. I won't criticize any parent who wishes to send their child to a private school or to homeschool their child, but I think that is equally wrong for another to criticize me for my decision to send my kids to public school. I've weighed the options and believe public school will be the best for them. Others came to a different conclusion for their families. Doesn't mean there is one absolutely right answer to blanket apply to everyone.

Mudinyeri said:

Well, they are run by the "gubmint."

I've already mentioned why I think the "government school" that my son attends is a good thing but I'd like to reiterate, after @TX_Matt 's post, that the testing of a child's faith that takes place at a public school prepares them for the real world. Sheltering a child from trials and tribulations does not help them mature ... in their faith or otherwise.

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OTOH, a child is a child, not an adult, and in the secular schools, the child is being pitted against adults. Would you pit a child against the wiles of an adult in any other instance?

RDKirk said:

OTOH, a child is a child, not an adult, and in the secular schools, the child is being pitted against adults. Would you pit a child against the wiles of an adult in any other instance?

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How exactly are children pitted against adults in public schools?

TX_Matt said:

How exactly are children pitted against adults in public schools?

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When we were in Hawaii, my daughter attended the public elementary school on base. Hawaii has a state K-12 "Hawaiiana" program in which actual kahunas (priests) of the "old religion" teach children religious chants, dances, et cetera.

My daughter's fifth-grade class was preparing for a pageant honoring the Hawaiian goddess Pele. She had brought home the chant they were to learn, which began, "O great Pele, creator of the universe, we adore you...."

My daughter asked, "Do I have to learn this?" and we assured her that she did not. My wife talked to her teacher about that, and her teacher gave her an alternate reading assignment instead of participation in the pageant. So the next day, the assistant principal walked into the class and noted that while the other kids were practicing the chant, my daughter was sitting separately doing her reading assignment.

The principal challenged my daughter, "Why are you doing this and not that?" And after getting the answer from my daughter that she was a Christian and didn't think it was right for her, the principal further challenged, "Well, those other children are Christian, so explain to me why you have a problem with it when they don't?"

My daughter was challenged as well in high school, relentlessly by one particular teacher, who had continuous things to say about "Christians" that she had to choose to respond to or not...although by then she'd learned how to listen to the Holy Spirit about such things.

RDKirk said:

When we were in Hawaii, my daughter attended the public elementary school on base. Hawaii has a state K-12 "Hawaiiana" program in which actual kahunas (priests) of the "old religion" teach children religious chants, dances, et cetera.

My daughter's fifth-grade class was preparing for a pageant honoring the Hawaiian goddess Pele. She had brought home the chant they were to learn, which began, "O great Pele, creator of the universe, we adore you...."

My daughter asked, "Do I have to learn this?" and we assured her that she did not. My wife talked to her teacher about that, and her teacher gave her an alternate reading assignment instead of participation in the pageant. So the next day, the assistant principal walked into the class and noted that while the other kids were practicing the chant, my daughter was sitting separately doing her reading assignment.

The principal challenged my daughter, "Why are you doing this and not that?" And after getting the answer from my daughter that she was a Christian and didn't think it was right for her, the principal further challenged, "Well, those other children are Christian, so explain to me why you have a problem with it when they don't?"

My daughter was challenged as well in high school, relentlessly by one particular teacher, who had continuous things to say about "Christians" that she had to choose to respond to or not...although by then she'd learned how to listen to the Holy Spirit about such things.

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Sorry your daughter had to deal with that. There are much less biased ways to explain Hawaii's indigenous religions.

RDKirk said:

When we were in Hawaii, my daughter attended the public elementary school on base. Hawaii has a state K-12 "Hawaiiana" program in which actual kahunas (priests) of the "old religion" teach children religious chants, dances, et cetera.

My daughter's fifth-grade class was preparing for a pageant honoring the Hawaiian goddess Pele. She had brought home the chant they were to learn, which began, "O great Pele, creator of the universe, we adore you...."

My daughter asked, "Do I have to learn this?" and we assured her that she did not. My wife talked to her teacher about that, and her teacher gave her an alternate reading assignment instead of participation in the pageant. So the next day, the assistant principal walked into the class and noted that while the other kids were practicing the chant, my daughter was sitting separately doing her reading assignment.

The principal challenged my daughter, "Why are you doing this and not that?" And after getting the answer from my daughter that she was a Christian and didn't think it was right for her, the principal further challenged, "Well, those other children are Christian, so explain to me why you have a problem with it when they don't?"

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I don't think your daughter's AP was challenging her, she likely was in there observing the teacher, part of which does sometimes include talking to students since it's important to know if the students know what it is going on.

RDKirk said:

My daughter was challenged as well in high school, relentlessly by one particular teacher, who had continuous things to say about "Christians" that she had to choose to respond to or not...although by then she'd learned how to listen to the Holy Spirit about such things.

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That teacher was not acting ethically at all.

thatbrian said:

From what I've seen, homeschooling can provide the kind of academic rigor which just can't be found in public schools, and talk about individual attention and customization for each child! Where is the down side to homeschooling?

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First of all, I am a homeschooler and it was the right decision for my kids but I have seen plenty of homeschool failures too. Parents who are so busy micromanaging their children's lives that they forget to teach them how to be independent thinking adults. Instead, they want little "mini-me"s who are mirrors of the image they want to represent. As I watch my daughters friends graduate, I realize how many of them are completely unprepared to handle life outside of mommy and daddy's domain. My daughter came home after doing an outing with a friend (both 18 years old) and her homeschool friend was completely terrified by some guy that she though was "looking at them funny". My daughter said...he was looking at us because the friend was acting so weird and paranoid. My daughter's solution was to simply leave together (since there were two of them). She had a car and felt the parking lot was safe (daylight). The friend wanted to call her dad and find out what to do. Really? My daughter and son can grocery shop for the family without me along...their friends often have never managed money because they were never allowed to have it or allowed to find out what it is like to make a bad purchase and suffer the consequences...even in some cases, where the child has actually earned that money through working. And the list can go on ... like any other school, homeschooling is only as good as its teachers and what it teaches.

I didn't homeschool for academic rigor...we focused on being good ethical people...being responsible...being compassionate to others..and learning how to learn something you didn't know. And there are even places that I know their academics were lacking ... but somehow, since I taught them to think and how to learn, they both are very successful in their first year of college (4.0s for both of them). I think that maybe some homeschoolers over emphasize the academics side and totally miss out on what we should really be teaching our children.

That said...there is no perfect school that meets every child's needs. I think it is silly to even suggest that ... just as it suggesting that only one personality type makes the best spouse. Our needs are different and what is right for each family is different. And to start the homeschool vs private school vs Christian school vs public school debate is elitist and does more damage than good. Pray and make the best decision for your unique family.

thatbrian said:

Doesn't the same thing happen to some children who are not home-schooled? Is micromanaging a necessary component of homeschooling?



There are many ways to educate, would be how I would phrase that. There are limitless ways to homeschool your children - any and all children.

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I think it is harder to micromanage a child in public school because they are not home for 8 hours a day. What they do at school is outside of your reach. Not necessarily better but a parent can't micromanage those hours. But what I am saying, is that many Christian homeschool families tend to do this even when they don't realize it. I know high school children who are only allowed to socialize at "homeschool" events ... even church events or totally benign social events are banned. They seem to forget to let the young adult grow up. When I was making the decision to homeschool, I asked an other teenager at a homeschool event whether or not she liked being homeschooled. She sweetly told me something to the effect, "I don't have to have an opinion because my daddy will let me know what I am supposed to think." It was at that time I realized there is a dark side to homeschooling too.

And did you miss the fact I said I homeschooled both my kids...from birth to entry into college. I know there are lots of ways to successfully (or not successfully) homeschool kids. My SIL was one of the "how not to" because she did it for all the wrong reasons...she was mad a the public school and somehow thought homeschooling made her "elite" but she just used whatever curriculum was popular in her area and jumped around so much that there was no consistency. My niece was actually doing two programs at the same time one year (and close to a nervous breakdown) because my SIL liked both programs and couldn't decide which one to use.

thatbrian said:

Teachers.

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Not all teachers. Probably not most. Just enough for these stereotypes and fears to exist.