.

grandvizier1006 said:

I should also point out that homeschooling is illegal in many countries. It's pretty much the Anglo-sphere alone that allows it.

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Why do you think that is? When you control what the
children learn, you control what your people think. That
is why roughly half of Americans today can't think for
themselves. They rely on the government to think for them.

thatbrian said:

Why do you say that it dependent on the child?

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From my own personal experiences. neither of my parents are qualified to teach, for example, and some states do not require you to notify the state government that you are homeschooling. Furthermore I live in Mississippi. There are no "brainwashing secular public schools" here. Instead the schools are poorly funded and possibly cheated out of what little funds they have by incompetent superintendents.

I don't think I would fit the homeschooler ideology, either. Often the children of various like-minded families are educated in "co-ops" and kids can go up in some subjects while staying behind in others. While that is beneficial to them I doubt I would have enjoyed the ideological slant homeschoolers have. The quality of education varies and I don't know if my parents would have made the best decisions by choosing to ingrain in me ideas that would just be mocked mercilessly once I left them. I still have had some issues with that in terms of how I grew up vs. how the rest of my generation is. Between you and me, PCA kids probably have it the worst outside the south.

Romans 13:4 clearly outlines the single role of governments; to punish evildoers. That's it. Nothing more! "Educating" children, mandating healthcare, enforcing mandatory vaccines and a host of other infringements are completely outside the scope of the their governing authority. Children are blessings from God whose care in upbringing/educating is charged to parents and parents alone.

thatbrian said:

I asked about why you think it varies with the kid, because I think the parent is more of an issue, which you've seemed to express in your post.

Some parents are not going to do as well as others in home-schooling, and co-ops sound like a good idea, although I have no experience with them.



I'm dying to know what you mean by this comment.

Are your parents fundamentalists (in a bad way)?

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Sorry if I didn't explain myself. What I meant is that children who wre homeschooled can sometimes turn out badly if the parents choose the wrong resources. There are some that use online programs like college plus and take advantage of all of the home-time by giving their kids hands-on education. And then there are those who are like the Duggars and give them outdated textbooks which speak of "red China" and force them into courtships or encourage Quiverfull.

By and large, the PCA church is pretty conservative. I honestly had little clue until I came here and had a better understanding of my own denomination. For starters, the PcA church does not accept evolution, while many other denominations do. Unlike what some other people think, I think this is negligible and it's not a topic I care to debate. But try going to a secular college and admitting that you think the earth is 6,000 years old, and then Imagine finding out that the evidence makes sense and that a part of your faith was quite simply wrong and unsubstantiated. That just opens the floodgates for all sorts of things. a liberal Christian already has the socially "correct" views on homosexuality, evolution and abortion. Other denominations like Catholics, have 1/3, and maybe some other liberals have 2/3. But PcA people have 0/3 of the "correct" views. (This is why I'm extremely grateful that I go to a Christian college where all of that safe space stuff can't catch on). going for being sheltered like that to find that no one believes as you do I'm the rest of the world is quite shocking, and we get the worst brunt of it. Not to mention the ostracization you could potentially face.

My parents weren't fundamentalists, and my dad is an intelligent man. But they have lived in a world that, for the most part, consists of their community. They didn't have the Internet to allow them to discover other Worldviews. They are adults and they know how to mingle with mixed company without stepping on toes; I have a much different, more difficult social world to navigate.

Now, plenty of homeschooled children, PCA or otherwise, tend to stick to their faith because it has been ingrained in them. I couldn't become an atheist if I tried. But I feel like my parents had very little involvement in my becoming a Christian other than dragging me to church on Sundays, and had they homeschooled me I think I would have ended up questioning many things they said or blindly believed them to the point that I could not withstand another person's views.

Mudinyeri said:

Short answer: It depends on the child.

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I'm with you on this. My husband and I are just going through making these decisions, as we hope our daughter will start school next year (I say hope because she has autism and related issues which make it possible that we may delay a year; it's hard to tell now where she will be by February next year!)

Our options are the government school up the road, the Catholic school around the corner, and home schooling. Each of these has benefits and drawbacks. At this point, we intend to send her to the Catholic school despite none of us being Catholics, as it is our assessment that they will best support her particular learning needs as well as nurturing a genuine Christian faith. The truth is that we do not have the specialised skills to help teach a child with a severe language delay and other issues (already we rely on paying for speech therapy and so forth), but the school has teachers with real expertise in the area, and will have funding for an aide and so forth.

We seriously considered the government school, and if I had not been convinced that the Catholic school was well equipped for an autistic child she might have gone there instead. Because desiring that she develop a living and vibrant faith would not have been enough of a reason for me to have kept her away from whatever educational environment would best meet her other needs (and our local government school specialises in educating children with special needs in a mainstream classroom).

Now I like the idea of home schooling and the time may come when that is the right fit for a season. But for a child who needs specialised support and lots of help learning social norms and interactions, being in a classroom with other children and well-qualified and experienced teachers is a good thing, at least to give her a solid foundation.

Education isn't a one-size-fits-all proposition.

thatbrian said:

The below quote dates back to 1923. How much worse are things 90 years later?!

“Place the lives of children in their formative years, despite the convictions of their parents, under the intimate control of experts appointed by the state, force them to attend schools where the higher aspirations of humanity are crushed out, and where the mind is filled with the materialism of the day, and it is difficult to see how even the remnants of liberty can subsist.” ― J. Gresham Machen, Christianity and Liberalism

What's the best way to educate your children?

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My father was a public school teacher and he took us out of public schools. My children never attended the government schools. My grandchildren are on track to miss the experience as well. I went to a private school, my brother to a so-so Catholic school. I came out Catholic and he doesn't darken the door of any church. Cause and effect has not been established but is strongly hinted. My children went to a good Catholic school, good Catholic high school, and so-so Catholic colleges, and both still keep the faith. We also know many home-schoolers.

fat wee robin said:

Well we all went to public school in Scotland or Ireland, and 5 out of six got degrees , and the last one is doing very well indeed . Homeschooling would be stifling for us ,and not even considered . Just for your info .

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The average in America is around 85% graduation rate. This can be higher or lower if you compare inner city to the suburb rates.

thatbrian said:

Why do you say that it dependent on the child?

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God gives everyone their own gifts, talents and abilities that need to be developed.

1 cor 12 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body. 21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I do not need you.” Nor can the head say to the feet, “I do not need you.” 22 On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable 23 and the parts we consider less honorable, we treat with greater honor. And our unpresentable parts are treated with special modesty,

We sent our children to public schools (they are both in their thirties now, so that was some time ago). However, because my wife was a teacher, she was always nearby while they were in elementary school. We were also able to get them into some tof the better programs and schools--not to mention that being in the military, the schools attended by the military kids were generally more well-ordered than some others might have been. This is not to say that military kids are angels by any means, but coming from homes that 100% have a consistent paycheck, roof, and food in a well-ordered environment helps.

That said, we also had friends back then who homeschooled. We observed that it wasn't particularly daunting or time consuming. Rather, pubic schools waste an incredible amount of time and kids get very little individual instruction. One friend of mine did all his instruction to his two daughters before going to work in the morning, his wife spent a couple of hours going over their exercises, and he checked their work after dinner. His wife spent quite a bit of the rest of the day teaching them "life," which included going out and dealing with the world.

Although most of this thread had been about education--secular and religious--the other important point (probably more important) is that schools are becoming grossly negative social environments. As such things go, the typical junior high and high school has the same social ethic as prison--and for much the same reason. The "socialization" of the typical high school has to be unlearned in adult life.

thatbrian said:

Is home-schooling best and/or only choice?

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In many places there are homeschool cooperatives, where parents get together and teach classes en mass. TN has really great homeschooling laws and many cooperatives-at least in East TN, where I lived. Where I am now, there isn't so much of that though. But homeschooling doesn't mean the parent has to do it all. My older child has tutors (college students need extra cash and it's not that expensive!), camps and classes she goes to, although she does the bulk of her work on her own. I would never send my child to a public school unless I had to.

BriannaRose said:

What other options does a single mother have?
I love the idea of homeschooling, but it doesn't seem possible to make it work out while working 9+ hours a day.
I have heard private schooling, in most cases, isn't much better than public schooling. Let alone the financial issues it brings.

I want nothing more than to keep my child from the sinful influences of the world, but it feels almost unavoidable.

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It can be very difficult to homeschool as a single parent. I have a friend who did it, but her child was in middle school when she pulled her out. For littler kids, it's certainly more difficult. I think it's easier to find a good school for younger kids though, or rather, less damaging lol.

Hey, you never know how your life circumstances might change. Keep praying and you just might be able to homeschool. If not, God can still protect your son wherever he his!

My children will be in public schools. Public schools are not perfect, but neither are private schools or homeschooling. I understand people's reasoning for opting to do homeschooling or private schooling, and I don't intend to argue against them. It really comes down to not wanting my children to be sheltered in the sense of not being exposed to different views and opinions. I understand it's possible to achieve this in the context of a private or home schooled environment (personally, I probably learned the most about Islam at my Christian university), but for the most part, it's different learning about another world view, religion, culture, etc from someone who is actually in that culture or heavily exposed to it than someone just teaching you about it (the prof for that Islam unit in that class was just that good and that intelligent, he was a rare breed). I don't want to have my children growing up with friends who are just like them, they won't be challenge, they're mind won't be expanded. I am thankful for the friends that I had as a student who weren't Christian, they taught me a lot about the world and my own faith. The other big issue is qualifications. I am not qualified to teach children Math, English, foreign languages, or Science, and while I am sure a good home school and private school programs are rigid about their teaching requirements, I just wouldn't trust it on the same level that I would trust my own coworkers. The thing about us teacher is this, we don't just have to be experts in both whatever field we teach and in education. In other words, just because you know the material doesn't mean you know how to teach it (think about some of the profs you may have had in college).

In my own experience, I was in public schools from K-9 and then 12th grade, and for 10th and 11th I attended a private Christian school. While there was nothing wrong with the material, and we were held to a higher standard, it was pretty outdated. I don't mean outdated in the sense that they didn't teach modern scholarship, but they used outdated instructional and classroom management techniques, almost every class was just a lecture (you can't just lecture to high school students day in and day out for 50 minutes a day) without really caring about Bloom's Taxonomy, how to think, or do anything that actually developed our minds outside of just feeding us material.

OP QUOTE thatbrian, The below quote dates back to 1923. How much worse are things 90 years later?!

“Place the lives of children in their formative years, despite the convictions of their parents, under the intimate control of experts appointed by the state, force them to attend schools where the higher aspirations of humanity are crushed out, and where the mind is filled with the materialism of the day, and it is difficult to see how even the remnants of liberty can subsist.” ― J. Gresham Machen, Christianity and Liberalism

What's the best way to educate your children? end quote.
" " Pray every day before , during, and after conception, birth, and every day forever after.
Seek the Father , the Creator, and His Kingdom, and keep seeking Him.
The world will hate you(us), but we must be dead to the world, and alive in Christ.
The world will be dead to you(us).
As it is written, so it remains.
Shalom !

I've noticed everybody who doesn't like public schools is calling them "government schools"

grandvizier1006 said:

I've noticed everybody who doesn't like public schools is calling them "government schools"

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Well, they are run by the "gubmint."

I've already mentioned why I think the "government school" that my son attends is a good thing but I'd like to reiterate, after @TX_Matt 's post, that the testing of a child's faith that takes place at a public school prepares them for the real world. Sheltering a child from trials and tribulations does not help them mature ... in their faith or otherwise.

grandvizier1006 said:

I've noticed everybody who doesn't like public schools is calling them "government schools"

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I noticed that well. In Texas least, the school districts sort of function as their own entity. They're accountable to the TEA, but they function independently of them. Likewise, the TEA is pretty much left to its own devices and makes all decisions on its own (the local districts don't even have to technically accept).

TX_Matt said:

I noticed that well. In Texas least, the school districts sort of function as their own entity. They're accountable to the TEA, but they function independently of them. Likewise, the TEA is pretty much left to its own devices and makes all decisions on its own (the local districts don't even have to technically accept).

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Yeah, from what I hear public schools vary in terms of success. (I went to private schools considered high-quality).