.

[sunlover1]

Listening to and obeying voices in your head sounds like dangerous mysticism to me. Surely if voices in your head is the common means of God instructing his people there would be undoubted clarification of such in scripture? I don't see anywhere that advocates listening to inner voices or feelings as being God's everyday method of instructing us. "My sheep hear my voice" is obviously metaphorical. We are not literally sheep, and we do not literally hear a voice speaking to us. No, it clearly means His followers will heed His teaching.

Well that's an interesting opinion.

John 16:13 - Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come,
he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself;
but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak:
and he will shew you things to come.

You're suggesting that just because he's using metaphor for sheep,
then He must be also for "voice"?
What about the passage above? No metaphors so what does He mean
by "voice" and "speak"?
He didn't really mean what He said here?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Listening to and obeying voices in your head sounds like dangerous mysticism to me. Surely if voices in your head is the common means of God instructing his people there would be undoubted clarification of such in scripture? I don't see anywhere that advocates listening to inner voices or feelings as being God's everyday method of instructing us. "My sheep hear my voice" is obviously metaphorical. We are not literally sheep, and we do not literally hear a voice speaking to us. No, it clearly means His followers will heed His teaching.

Instead I see plenty of verses instructing us to apply the principles found in His word to our lives:

Psalm 19:7-11 "The law of the Lord is perfect, refreshing the soul. The statutes of the Lord are trustworthy, making wise the simple. The precepts of the Lord are right, giving joy to the heart. The commands of the Lord are radiant, giving light to the eyes. The fear of the Lord is pure, enduring forever. The decrees of the Lord are firm, and all of them are righteous. They are more precious than gold, than much pure gold; they are sweeter than honey, than honey from the honeycomb. By them your servant is warned; in keeping them there is great reward."

Col 3:16 "Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another"

James 1:25 "But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does."

Great post.

Adding to it, what is 2 Timothy 3:16 there for if God directly, personally, leads us and instructs us?

 

[sunlover1]

Great post.

Adding to it, what is 2 Timothy 3:16 there for if God directly, personally, leads us and instructs us?

Of course He directly leads us and instructs us.
We have a Father son relationship with Him.
If you can't hear Him, why not try to find the reason and remedy it
rather than trying to prove we're all nutjobs? lol

Here, this is from the 1st Presbyterian Church of Rochelle Ill.
Here's the entire article

"The Bible proclaims a God who speaks. Folks, this is biblical. Of course, He speaks authoritatively and perfectly in His written word. But even this Word talks about his living voice. It sets up a relationship where we can hear the Lord and we’ll talk about how we do that. But the Bible proclaims a God who speaks to me in a living way right now! We heard that as Marilyn read John 10. Jesus said, “My sheep hear my voice.” That’s a characteristic of being a disciple of Jesus. My sheep hear my voice. The whole point, Jesus says, is my sheep can grow into being able to hear it. Otherwise why would He bother speaking to us? They will run away from a stranger. Why? They don’t recognize His voice. So the Bible is saying here not only that Jesus speaks, but that you and I can learn, as John 10 just said, to recognize His voice. We can learn to distinguish it from the robber’s voice! "

 

[swordsman1]

Well that's an interesting opinion.

John 16:13 - Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come,
he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself;
but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak:
and he will shew you things to come.

You're suggesting that just because he's using metaphor for sheep,
then He must be also for "voice"?
What about the passage above? No metaphors so what does He mean
by "voice" and "speak"?
He didn't really mean what He said here?

John 16:13 is Jesus instructing the twelve disciples about the Holy Spirit coming at Pentecost and giving them new revelation in the form of prophecy ("and He will disclose to you what is to come"). It is certainly not describing the Holy Spirit talking to us about everyday matters in an audible voice.

 

[sunlover1]

John 16:13 is Jesus instructing the twelve disciples about the Holy Spirit coming at Pentecost and giving them new revelation in the form of prophecy ("and He will disclose to you what is to come"). It is certainly not describing the Holy Spirit talking to us about everyday matters in an audible voice.

I asked specifically what He meant by "speak" and by "voice"
Regardless of who you "think" He's talking about,
or which subject He is going to speak of...
what does it mean when He says He will SPEAK?
And what does He mean by VOICE?
That's what I'm curious to know about.
Thanks

 

[RDKirk]

Listening to and obeying voices in your head sounds like dangerous mysticism to me. Surely if voices in your head is the common means of God instructing his people there would be undoubted clarification of such in scripture? I don't see anywhere that advocates listening to inner voices or feelings as being God's everyday method of instructing us. "My sheep hear my voice" is obviously metaphorical. We are not literally sheep, and we do not literally hear a voice speaking to us. No, it clearly means His followers will heed His teaching.

Instead I see plenty of verses instructing us to apply the principles found in His word to our lives:

Psalm 19:7-11 "The law of the Lord is perfect, refreshing the soul. The statutes of the Lord are trustworthy, making wise the simple. The precepts of the Lord are right, giving joy to the heart. The commands of the Lord are radiant, giving light to the eyes. The fear of the Lord is pure, enduring forever. The decrees of the Lord are firm, and all of them are righteous. They are more precious than gold, than much pure gold; they are sweeter than honey, than honey from the honeycomb. By them your servant is warned; in keeping them there is great reward."

Col 3:16 "Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another"

James 1:25 "But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does."

OTOH:

During the night Paul had a vision of a man of Macedonia standing and begging him, "Come over to Macedonia and help us." -- Acts 15

 

[RDKirk]

John 16:13 is Jesus instructing the twelve disciples about the Holy Spirit coming at Pentecost and giving them new revelation in the form of prophecy ("and He will disclose to you what is to come"). It is certainly not describing the Holy Spirit talking to us about everyday matters in an audible voice.

How is that "certainly?"

 

[swordsman1]

I asked specifically what He meant by "speak" and by "voice"
Regardless of who you "think" He's talking about, or WHAT He is going to talk about,
what does it mean when He says He will SPEAK?
And what does He mean by VOICE?

The verse doesn't mention "voice". When it says "He will speak" it means he will disclose new revelation to them, as the statements immediately following make clear. Whether the Holy Spirit literally spoke in an audible voice seems unlikely seeing as the verse also says the Holy Spirit "hears". Do you think the members of the Godhead communicate with each other in a primitive audible language?

 

[swordsman1]

OTOH:

During the night Paul had a vision of a man of Macedonia standing and begging him, "Come over to Macedonia and help us." -- Acts 15

Visions and prophecy is a different topic.

 

[swordsman1]

How is that "certainly?"

From the context.

 

[RDKirk]

All of nature constantly speaks of God to anyone willing to listen (Romans 1:23, Psalm 98:8).

But that's the trick, isn't it? The really, really tough part.

Now if any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives to all generously and without criticizing, and it will be given to him.

But let him ask in faith without doubting. For the doubter is like the surging sea, driven and tossed by the wind. That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. -- James 1

I don't know how it may be with other people, but it's probably not likely that anyone who does not have an expectation of hearing God's intention for him in a clear an unambiguous manner will get it in a clear and unambiguous manner. That is one level of being single-minded.

I also think one must be single-minded in intent. One must fully intend in his heart of hearts to take whatever God may him as Agenda Item Number 1. I know that's extremely difficult for me, because I always have so many desires and intents of my own for every day. It's so hard to say, "My agenda is clear--all my time is Yours" and truly, truly mean it.

When that has occurred for me, it's like being a pole vaulter at the epitome of a vault, those fleeting moments when one is crossing the bar at a high one has never achieved before. Glorious and brief, then you're down again. Rare enough to be counted on a hand, even in my sixties.

 

[RDKirk]

Visions and prophecy is a different topic.

Not a different topic, just a different method.

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[TillICollapse]

If the same mission were not upon us today in this "real time," then it would not be necessary for the Holy Spirit to be the same Holy Spirit now as he was in the 1st century. When they no longer "bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers," then there will no longer be a need for a Holy Spirit to "...teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say."

It seems you're not responding to some of my points, it feels like you are preaching at me now.

Yes, you're right. I have provided scriptural evidence that the Holy Spirit will operate forever as Jesus said He would operate, explicitly counseling us in real time as we need Him to continue the Lord's mission. You are asserting this is not true, so the burden of truth is on you.

Where did I assert any such thing ? I hope this is an unintentional straw man.

 

[sunlover1]

The verse doesn't mention "voice".

You're right, i was mixing my verses into one i think.

When it says "He will speak" it means he will disclose new revelation to them, as the statements immediately following make clear.

I get that, but HOW?
Does He send a prophet?
Does He speak to them individually?
Doe He speak to them in a dream or vision?

Whether the Holy Spirit literally spoke in an audible voice seems unlikely seeing as the verse also says the Holy Spirit "hears". [//quote]
He's a person, why wouldn't we expect Him to hear and speak?
God hears and speaks
Jesus hears and speaks..

Do you think the members of the Godhead communicate with each other in a primitive audible language?

I know that they communicate.
I have no idea what language they use.

 

[sunlover1]

Do you think that person is saved?

I am very worried he's not.
His daughter was not until my son led her to God.
I don't know.

 

[sunlover1]

But that's the trick, isn't it? The really, really tough part.

Now if any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives to all generously and without criticizing, and it will be given to him.

But let him ask in faith without doubting. For the doubter is like the surging sea, driven and tossed by the wind. That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. -- James 1

I don't know how it may be with other people, but it's probably not likely that anyone who does not have an expectation of hearing God's intention for him in a clear an unambiguous manner will get it in a clear and unambiguous manner. That is one level of being single-minded.

I also think one must be single-minded in intent. One must fully intend in his heart of hearts to take whatever God may him as Agenda Item Number 1. I know that's extremely difficult for me, because I always have so many desires and intents of my own for every day. It's so hard to say, "My agenda is clear--all my time is Yours" and truly, truly mean it.

When that has occurred for me, it's like being a pole vaulter at the epitome of a vault, those fleeting moments when one is crossing the bar at a high one has never achieved before. Glorious and brief, then you're down again. Rare enough to be counted on a hand, even in my sixties.

Good stuff.
I have a question for you ..
I often pray that God's will will be done.
Not because I don't have my own desire,
but because I don't know if my desire is a very
good plan.
So, He knows that I want such and such, but
because I don't trust my own mind, I ask Him
to let His will be done.
Does that sound double minded?
I am only asking for opinions. Obviously LOL

 

[TillICollapse]

Like He said, HIS sheep KNOW His voice.

Stating that, doesn't resolve the issue of positively identifying that a person is in fact communicating with God, to someone else.

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[sunlover1]

Do you want to tell more about what took place? God had
me move away from a sliding glass door a few minutes before
the yard guy, using a trimmer, shot a rock through it. At first,
I hesitated as to will just clean off the table first. But I knew, no
don't do it, just leave. My dishes and food was covered in broken glass.

yikes!
So you heard Him, hesitated only for a second and then moved just in time!
I had a similar one where I did NOT listen, well 2 times (out of many, i'm sure)
One time i was walking through the room. Everyone was sleeping, the lightbulb
flickered and I heard "turn it off and change it". I disregarded it :/ and walked on
through and then shortly , moments later it shattered all over my dining room.

the time i was talking about though, I was heading to a seminar out of town,
hit some black ice and flipped my vehicle.
Rather than pay attention to God, who was making me to walk in paths of
righteousness for His Name's sake... I called a tow truck and found another
way to get to the (week long) seminar. While i was gone my marriage was
ruined.. (won't go into details)
it was a great marriage and great family, but had i gone back home..
what if's.
I try to get His advice on EVERY move i make now!
Took a few biggies to help me see that is needed.