70th Week - It Is Still Pending

BABerean2 said:

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Is there anything more worthless than posting a video instead of answering whether your "Geneva" bible is the ORIGINAL Scriptures as given by GOD to the Jews.

DaDad

/nvm

/nvm

DaDad said:

Pppppppppppp. Yeah, the ORIGINAL Masoretic was copied into Latin, and then it was lost to history, so the Jews copied the Septuagint back into the Masoretic. GREAT JOB.

Are you familiar with the Dead Sea Scrolls? Are you aware that they VALIDATE the Masoretic Text?

Pretty funny how many lies we're told, and how many lies we repeat back,
DaDad

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From Wikipedia:

"Modern scholars seeking to understand the history of the Tanakh’s text use a range of sources other than the Masoretic Text.[3] These include early Greek (Septuagint) and Syriac (Peshitta) translations, the Samaritan Pentateuch, the Dead Sea Scrolls and quotations from rabbinic manuscripts. Most of these are older than the Masoretic text and often contradict it."

So much for Dead Sea Scrolls validation. Where is that lie found?

The Masoretic text was a product of Jewish falsification.

DaDad said:

Is there anything more worthless than posting a video instead of answering whether your "Geneva" bible is the ORIGINAL Scriptures as given by GOD to the Jews.

DaDad

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Yes.

It would be anything using Walvoord as a source...


Classic Dispensationalists believe God will again go back to dealing with the modern nation of Israel after the end of the “Church Age”. They claim the Church is a “parenthesis” in God’s dealings with the nation of Israel.


Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church.



“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.”

Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.


Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.”

Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.


John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated…


"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.”


John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25

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BABerean2 said:

You can call yourself a horse.
That does not make you a horse.

There is only one type of Christian, instead of two.

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You said that incorrectly. This is the proper phrase.

"You can call yourself a horse. That does not make you a horse.

You can call yourself a born again Christian, that does not make you a born again Christian."




There are two types of Christians.




As pointed out in Dear “Carnal Christian”, the visible church is overburdened with professing Christians who have never been truly converted. What I mean by “visible church” is that there is a distinction between the professing church and the true Church. The professing church, or visible church, is comprised of both genuine believers and mere professing believers who are still dead in their sins (Ephesians 2:1 ). On the other hand, the invisible church, or Body of Christ or true Church, is exclusively comprised of born again saints who have been sealed by the Holy Spirit through repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

https://standupforthetruth.com/2012/02/a-m-for-carnal-christians/

Seville90210 said:

As pointed out in Dear “Carnal Christian”, the visible church is overburdened with professing Christians who have never been truly converted. What I mean by “visible church” is that there is a distinction between the professing church and the true Church. The professing church, or visible church, is comprised of both genuine believers and mere professing believers who are still dead in their sins (Ephesians 2:1 ). On the other hand, the invisible church, or Body of Christ or true Church, is exclusively comprised of born again saints who have been sealed by the Holy Spirit through repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

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Make up your mind.

The part of your post found above agrees with everything I said...

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BABerean2 said:

Make up your mind.

The part of your post found above agrees with everything I said...

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WOW! UNBELIEVABLE!

You really don't understand what Paul is telling you in 1 Corinthians 3?

mkgal1 said:

You may wish to read these passages, then (the Trinity doesn't act separately from one another - and that's why we gathered from what you posted that you were suggesting Jesus is not God - that's what you intimated):

Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation, for through him God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can't see--such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world. Everything was created through him and for him. ~ Colossians 1:15-16

Hebrews 1:2 ~ ... but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom he also created the worlds.
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You should post verses that supports your argument. These scriptures are telling me how wrong you are. They show the Father and the Son as two individuals, what I've been telling you all along.

God is three individuals in one: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. All the thing God has done in the bible were done as different individuals. Upon creation, God made the heavens and the earth as the Father, not the Son. When God came into the world in the first coming, He came as the Son, not the Father. When God comes to live within each of us, He comes as the in-dwelling of the Holy Spirit. The bible is not a complicated book, you don't have to beat your head on the keyboard trying to figure out who did what. It's all a matter of accepting the truth in the bible and everything easily falls into place with harmony when you accept it with a futurist, non-preterist perspective.

mkgal1 said:

Nope. But if you want to talk "Trinity" I'm open to doing that (I really enjoy that topic) - but that's not the focus of this thread.

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You're wasting your time. We already know you're dying to give us a preterist - it all happened during 70AD - perspective.

mkgal1 said:

Right....the NEW Jerusalem will not ever be destroyed (it can't be the natural nation of Jerusalem, because like you said, it WAS destroyed in 70 A.D. so that would make that passage untrue, if read to mean that).

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No, you're incorrect. If the new Jerusalem will never be destroy ever again, that means the prophecy of Jeremiah 31, including the covenant in verse 31 is still future, when Christ returns and a new Jerusalem will be built for the Lord in that will never be destroy ever again. Jeremiah 31 is still future and was not fulfilled at the first coming.

Jeremiah 31:31 King James Version (KJV)
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jeremiah 31:38-40 King James Version (KJV)
38 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that the city shall be built to the Lord from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.
39 And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.
40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the Lord; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.

mkgal1 said:

They were fleeing for their lives then.......but prior to that, do you deny there were "Jewish people" making the claim "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord"? Do you not realize that all Jesus' disciples were "Jewish people" along with the entire early church?

Matthew 21:9 ~ The crowds that went ahead of Him [Jesus] and those that followed were shouting: “Hosanna to the Son of David!” “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!” “Hosanna in the highest!”​

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I DENY your argument here 110% because it fails to support your argument that Jesus returned in 70AD. If using a strawman rebuttal is your best, you should be embarrassed because we see right through your little scheme.

mkgal1 said:

You read all those passages to mean that God -physically- came to earth? Because that was my point - it's typically not meant to be a physical and literal (tangible or visible) presence (with a few exceptions like the pillar of fire; burning bush; and, of course, Jesus).

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No, these are all prophecies about the Son (Jesus) coming to earth physically at the second coming, not the Father (God). This is why I tell you not to waste people's time giving us your preterist - it all happened in 70AD - perspective. It leaves you in the dark when trying to understand bible prophecy....or any part of the bible for that matter.


Zechariah 2:10-11 New King James Version (NKJV)
10 “Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion! For behold, I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,” says the Lord. 11 “Many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and they shall become My people. And I will dwell in your midst. Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me to you.


Zechariah 8:3 New King James Version (NKJV)
“Thus says the Lord:

I will return to Zion,
And dwell in the midst of Jerusalem.
Jerusalem shall be called the City of Truth,
The Mountain of the Lord of hosts,
The Holy Mountain.’


Zechariah 9:8 New King James Version (NKJV)
I will camp around My house
Because of the army,
Because of him who passes by and him who returns.
No more shall an oppressor pass through them,
For now I have seen with My eyes.


Zechariah 9:14 New King James Version (NKJV)
Then the Lord will be seen over them,
And His arrow will go forth like lightning.
The Lord God will blow the trumpet,
And go with whirlwinds from the south.


Zechariah 14:4 New King James Version (NKJV)
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.

Ezekiel 11:23 New King James Version (NKJV)
And the glory of the Lord went up from the midst of the city and stood on the mountain, which is on the east side of the city.


Habakkuk 3:6 New King James Version (NKJV)
He stood and measured the earth;
He looked and startled the nations.
And the everlasting mountains were scattered,
The perpetual hills bowed.
His ways are everlasting.


Micah 1:3 New King James Version (NKJV)
For behold, the Lord is coming out of His place;
He will come down
And tread on the high places of the earth.


Joel 3:12 New King James Version (NKJV)
“Let the nations be wakened, and come up to the Valley of Jehoshaphat;
For there I will sit to judge all the surrounding nations.


Joel 3:17 New King James Version (NKJV)
“So you shall know that I am the Lord your God,
Dwelling in Zion My holy mountain.
Then Jerusalem shall be holy,
And no aliens shall ever pass through her again.”


Isaiah 12:6 New King James Version (NKJV)
Cry out and shout, O inhabitant of Zion,
For great is the Holy One of Israel in your midst!”


Isaiah 60:14 New King James Version (NKJV)
Also the sons of those who afflicted you
Shall come bowing to you,
And all those who despised you shall fall prostrate at the soles of your feet;
And they shall call you The City of the Lord,
Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

Seville90210 said:

Jeremiah 31 is still future and was not fulfilled at the first coming.

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The Uppercase text below is quoted from the Old Testament.

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.


The New Covenant of Christ is one of the basic tenants of our faith.

It is no wonder the modern Church is in a state of confusion, based on the claim that the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34 is not now in effect.


The New Covenant: Bob George

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BABerean2 said:

Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.

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You can't claim this prophecy was fulfilled when you don't know what this covenant is about. There are thousands maybe millions of covenants God has made with man since creation. Simply because you see the words "new covenant" doesn't make all new covenants one in the same. That's a Biff Tannen approach to eschatology.

This guy in the video getting his head slapped.



So what does God mean when He said
"I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS?"

How will this covenant make them all know Him?
"FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM."

Don't recite word for word what Jeremiah wrote or link that video with the old guy reciting Jeremiah 31, it just means you're clueless when you do that.

DaDad said:

Yep, I'll agree as soon as you can cite ANY Scripture or society where ~a pair of shoes cost seven and sixty-two dollars, plus tax~. Until then, please stop assuming "sixty-nine".
Thanks,
DaDad

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That's just it, the prophecy was laid out in advance to show that the prophetic work of the prophecy which concerns the Jews and Jerusalem would start and stop and start again, with each progressive world ruler that was in power.


If it was a concurrent 70 weeks without a pause in the timeline, then why would the Holy Spirit indicate 7 weeks, and 62 weeks and 1 week?


The prophecy and the work of restoring the temple and city began with Cyrus.

Thus says Cyrus king of Persia:
All the kingdoms of the earth the Lord God of heaven has given me. And He has commanded me to build Him a house at Jerusalem which is in Judah. Who is among you of all His people? May his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem which is in Judah, and build the house of the Lord God of Israel (He is God), which is in Jerusalem. And whoever is left in any place where he dwells, let the men of his place help him with silver and gold, with goods and livestock, besides the freewill offerings for the house of God which is in Jerusalem. Ezra 1:2-4


Do you even understand why the Jews are referring to Donald Trump as a type of "Cyrus"?


They want Him to help restore the last Temple, as Cyrus did.





Temple Coin -



Then the work of the prophecy was stopped by the next world ruler: King Artaxerxes



We inform the king that if this city is rebuilt and its walls are completed, the result will be that you will have no dominion beyond the River.
The king sent an answer:
To Rehum the commander, to Shimshai the scribe, to the rest of their companions who dwell in Samaria, and to the remainder beyond the River:
Peace, and so forth.
The letter which you sent to us has been clearly read before me. And I gave the command, and a search has been made, and it was found that this city in former times has revolted against kings, and rebellion and sedition have been fostered in it. There have also been mighty kings over Jerusalem, who have ruled over all the region beyond the River; and tax, tribute, and custom were paid to them. Now give the command to make these men cease, that this city may not be built until the command is given by me.
Take heed now that you do not fail to do this. Why should damage increase to the hurt of the kings?
Now when the copy of King Artaxerxes’ letter was read before Rehum, Shimshai the scribe, and their companions, they went up in haste to Jerusalem against the Jews, and by force of arms made them cease. Thus the work of the house of God which is at Jerusalem ceased, and it was discontinued until the second year of the reign of Darius king of Persia.
Ezra 4:16-24


The work of the prophecy began again by King Darius, and continued until completion and was finished when Messiah the Prince was fulfilled.


Then King Darius issued a decree, and a search was made in the archives, where the treasures were stored in Babylon. And at Achmetha, in the palace that is in the province of Media, a scroll was found, and in it a record was written thus:
In the first year of King Cyrus, King Cyrus issued a decree concerning the house of God at Jerusalem: “Let the house be rebuilt, the place where they offered sacrifices; and let the foundations of it be firmly laid, its height sixty cubits and its width sixty cubits, with three rows of heavy stones and one row of new timber. Let the expenses be paid from the king’s treasury. Also let the gold and silver articles of the house of God, which Nebuchadnezzar took from the temple which is in Jerusalem and brought to Babylon, be restored and taken back to the temple which is in Jerusalem, each to its place; and deposit them in the house of God”—
Now therefore, Tattenai, governor of the region beyond the River, and Shethar-Boznai, and your companions the Persians who are beyond the River, keep yourselves far from there. Let the work of this house of God alone; let the governor of the Jews and the elders of the Jews build this house of God on its site.
Moreover I issue a decree as to what you shall do for the elders of these Jews, for the building of this house of God: Let the cost be paid at the king’s expense from taxes on the region beyond the River; this is to be given immediately to these men, so that they are not hindered. And whatever they need—young bulls, rams, and lambs for the burnt offerings of the God of heaven, wheat, salt, wine, and oil, according to the request of the priests who are in Jerusalem—let it be given them day by day without fail, that they may offer sacrifices of sweet aroma to the God of heaven, and pray for the life of the king and his sons.
Also I issue a decree that whoever alters this edict, let a timber be pulled from his house and erected, and let him be hanged on it; and let his house be made a refuse heap because of this. And may the God who causes His name to dwell there destroy any king or people who put their hand to alter it, or to destroy this house of God which is in Jerusalem. I Darius issue a decree; let it be done diligently.
Ezra 6:1-12

• Also I issue a decree that whoever alters this edict, let a timber be pulled from his house and erected, and let him be hanged on it; and let his house be made a refuse heap because of this. And may the God who causes His name to dwell there destroy any king or people who put their hand to alter it, or to destroy this house of God which is in Jerusalem. I Darius issue a decree; let it be done diligently.

Needles to say, the work was not altered again until it was finished.



Messiah the Prince occurred when all the city of Jerusalem came out and hailed Jesus saying,
Hosanna to the son of David.

Then the multitudes who went before and those who followed cried out, saying:

“Hosanna to the Son of David!
‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’
Hosanna in the highest!”
Matthew 21:9

• This was the fulfillment of the first 69 weeks, which is why Jesus said to the Pharisee's -

39 And some of the Pharisees called to Him from the crowd, “Teacher, rebuke Your disciples.”
40 But He answered and said to them, “I tell you that if these should keep silent, the stones would immediately cry out.” Luke 19:39-40



Nothing was going to stop this prophecy from coming to pass.

• 5 Days later, after this "Messiah the Prince, was fulfilled, He was crucified.

“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
Daniel 9:26





JLB

jgr said:

... The Masoretic text was a product of Jewish falsification.

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I don't disagree that there is no GOD, no GOD's Word, no Jesus, no Prophets, and no Jews, -- on the moon. But on earth, all these exist according to GOD's plan. We're given GOD's Word to make sure we know enough about HIM to make a decision. And that Word is reliable, otherwise see the former.

And let me say, you risk your own eternity when you accuse GOD's chosen.
Thanks,
DaDad

BABerean2 said:

Yes.

It would be anything using ...

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... BABerean2's videos as a source.
Thanks,
DaDad

DaDad said:

Yep, I'll agree as soon as you can cite ANY Scripture or society where ~a pair of shoes cost seven and sixty-two dollars, plus tax~. Until then, please stop assuming "sixty-nine".

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JLB777 said:

That's just it, ...

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Exactly. You have no precedent for your "seven and sixty-two" convention.

JLB777 said:

Thus says Cyrus king of Persia: ...

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Young says:

So don't defend a Cyrus fulfillment. Instead, how about finding the Scriptural reference for the "going forth of the Word" as SCRIPTURE provides.

JLB777 said:

The work of the prophecy began again by King Darius, and continued until completion and was finished when Messiah the Prince was fulfilled.

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Make sure you understand that there was ONE "Darius" in the Babylonian Empire, and THREE "Darius" in the Medo/Persian Empire, for which the one cited in the Book of Daniel is the former.

JLB777 said:

Messiah the Prince

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Small "m", small "p".


And you might start your "understanding" by complying with the angel's instructions in 12:4 & 9. Obedience make everything easier.

Thanks,
DaDad

vinsight4u said:

To understand Daniel 12, start with the end of Daniel 10.
Daniel would be shown the truth- written.
Daniel will read and close this book, but he wants to know more.

Daniel 10 - ends referring to this truth
Daniel 11-begins referring to this truth
Daniel 12 - he closes this truth book

Daniel 10 -is about the latter days.
what shall befall thy people in the latter days
Thus, chapter 11 is part of it about the latter days.

Daniel 12 goes back in time. It is not just an and then type of verse.
It reveals by the first words as to place this prophecy back at the time of the end. The little horn already falls at the end of chapter 11.

Daniel was being told in chapter 11 as to how this he - king of the north would enter the glorious land, then how he would take countries.
Daniel 12 steps back to reveal what happens when he enters the holy land.

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Daniel 12:1 is right after the midpoint of the week: the time Jesus mentioned as the start of the days of great tribulation.

DaDad said:

Exactly. You have no precedent for your "seven and sixty-two" convention.


Young says:

“This phrase has reference to the issuance of the word, not from a Persian ruler but from God. Young goes on to point out that the expression the commandment, which he insists is better translated “a word” (Heb. Dābār; cf. 2Ch 30:5) is also found is Daniel 9:23 for a word from God.”[1]
[1] John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 224​

So don't defend a Cyrus fulfillment. Instead, how about finding the Scriptural reference for the "going forth of the Word" as SCRIPTURE provides.


Make sure you understand that there was ONE "Darius" in the Babylonian Empire, and THREE "Darius" in the Medo/Persian Empire, for which the one cited in the Book of Daniel is the former.


Small "m", small "p".


And you might start your "understanding" by complying with the angel's instructions in 12:4 & 9. Obedience make everything easier.

Thanks,
DaDad

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Those "instructions" were not to us living in 2018. Why then even say this?
Actually, I think JBL's post was more accurate than yours.

JLB777 said:

“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
Daniel 9:26

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What week comes "after" this week?

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iamlamad said:

Daniel 12:1 is right after the midpoint of the week: the time Jesus mentioned as the start of the days of great tribulation.

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Ummmmmm, first of all, there's no "midpoint" for the Revelation 13:5 42 months. -- Daniel's "seventieth week" has NOTHING to do with the Tribulation.

Secondly, the Daniel 12:1 is at the end of the 42 months.

Easy peasy,
DaDad

iamlamad said:

Those "instructions" were not to us living in 2018. Why then even say this?

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Pppppppssssssshhhhhhh
You can believe anything thing you want. But I follow instructions 'cause I ain't smart enough to disobey 'em:


But you are so smart that we come to YOU for the "name" of the a/c.

DaDad