7 churches

[AliOgg]

God Bless You, I read in the Book of Revelation of the 7 churches and the 7 spirits of the churches, does this apply to todays churches and if so then why do so many churches say that theirs is the right one if there are meant to be 7 anyway?

And God Bless All His Peoples.

 

[mythbuster]

God Bless You, I read in the Book of Revelation of the 7 churches and the 7 spirits of the churches, does this apply to todays churches and if so then why do so many churches say that theirs is the right one if there are meant to be 7 anyway?

And God Bless All His Peoples.

This applies today because at the end of each epistle there is the call by the Spirit to the churches, plural.

 

[ChristianMuse]

It applies to seven distinct churches at the time of John's writing.

It can apply to today's churches. It is not however that there are seven churches but reflect seven problems that a church can face at some point in their existence.

I have also noticed when reading history that there also appears to be stages that the church as a whole is going through. In this case we are at the time of the sixth church and the seventh is nearing.

The last two are conjecture but it is my extended understanding of the churches John wrote about.

 

[RThibeault]

It applies to seven distinct churches at the time of John's writing.

It can apply to today's churches. It is not however that there are seven churches but reflect seven problems that a church can face at some point in their existence.

I have also noticed when reading history that there also appears to be stages that the church as a whole is going through. In this case we are at the time of the sixth church and the seventh is nearing.

The last two are conjecture but it is my extended understanding of the churches John wrote about.

As you have so succinctly put it. There were in fact 7 specific churches referred to in Revelation, with seven distinct problems.

You also identified the theory that the 7 churches also represent 7 distinct ages of the church characterized by the same distinct problems.

As for there being seven specific churches of the last time to be spoken of this is a possibility. Could it be seven major denominations? Or seven churches which might represent problems of today? Most probably the idea that there are seven distinct lessons to be learned is the most important for our period of time.

Another question to ask is whether the "angels of the seven churches" are actual angels or the pastors of those churches? The Greek angelos can refer to both.

 

[Dad Ernie]

I read in the Book of Revelation of the 7 churches and the 7 spirits of the churches, does this apply to todays churches and if so then why do so many churches say that theirs is the right one if there are meant to be 7 anyway?

Greetings AliOgg,

I am pretty much in line with what is already said, but just to reiterate, the 7 churches that were addressed were in fact real churches at the time of John's writing. 2ndly, I believe that it is the "spirit of the church" that is being addressed, thus 3rdly, these 7 churches are "types" of churches throughout the church's history, and LASTLY, I see them as having application to 7 church "ages" in which the predominant "spirit" was in a particular age, the last of which is the church of Laodicia which I see God "spewing out of His mouth" which applies to the last days apostate church.

I also see this "church age" coming right up to and abutting the beginning of the "great tribulation". Not that the church is taken out, but that because sound doctrine is no longer taught, God "calls out" His Saints, which are sealed by the Holy Spirit and from Chapter 4 onward, only Saints are referred to and there basically is no more reference to the "church" because it has become one with the world. The Saints of God will be ministering on the streets. The Beast will pursue them and kill them up to the very end.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[AliOgg]

This applies today because at the end of each epistle there is the call by the Spirit to the churches, plural.

What are epistles please?

And God Bless All His Peoples

 

[Justme]

Hi forum,

There were seven churches in biblical times named as Revelation names them. John was instructed to write the letters before he was taken up to Heaven to be told and shown what was to happen.

Were the letters not physically written? Did the Bishops of the seven churches never read those letters? Who did read those letters?

Who were they written to?

Quote from Catholic encyclopedia.......

St. John in the Apocalypse is shown seven candlesticks and in their midst, the Son of Man holding seven stars (Apoc., 1:13, 20). The candlesticks represent the seven Churches of Asia; the stars, the angels of those Churches. He is bidden to write to the respective angels of those Churches and distribute to each his meed of praise or blame. Origen (Hom., xiii in Luc., and Hom., xx in Num.) explains that these are the guardian angels of the Churches, a view upheld by Dean Alford. But St. Epiphanius (Hær., xxv) explicitly rejects this view, and, in accordance with the imagery of the passage, explains it of the bishops. The comparison of a teacher to a star is quite Scriptural (Dan., xii, 3). St. Augustine's reason for interpreting angels of the Churches as the prelates of the church is that St. John speaks of them as falling from their first charity which is not true of the angels [Ep., xliii (al. clxii), n. 22].

What I want to know concerning the seven churches is who is the audience of this line?
Rev 2
24Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan's so-called deep secrets (I will not impose any other burden on you): 25Only hold on to what you have until I come.

Justme

 

[AliOgg]

It applies to seven distinct churches at the time of John's writing.

In this case we are at the time of the sixth church and the seventh is nearing.

The first I can see, but is there scripture to show that there is to be one church or 7 churches?

And God Bless All His Peoples.

 

[AliOgg]

As you have so succinctly put it. There were in fact 7 specific churches referred to in Revelation, with seven distinct problems.

You also identified the theory that the 7 churches also represent 7 distinct ages of the church characterized by the same distinct problems.

As for there being seven specific churches of the last time to be spoken of this is a possibility. Could it be seven major denominations? Or seven churches which might represent problems of today? Most probably the idea that there are seven distinct lessons to be learned is the most important for our period of time.

Another question to ask is whether the "angels of the seven churches" are actual angels or the pastors of those churches? The Greek angelos can refer to both.

So is it 1 church or 7 churches, today/now/in these times, if 7 then who fits the bill?

And God Bless All His Peoples.

 

[AliOgg]

Greetings AliOgg,

I am pretty much in line with what is already said, but just to reiterate, the 7 churches that were addressed were in fact real churches at the time of John's writing.

What became of these 7 churches?

 

[AliOgg]

Hi forum,

There were seven churches in biblical times named as Revelation names them. John was instructed to write the letters before he was taken up to Heaven to be told and shown what was to happen.

Were the letters not physically written? Did the Bishops of the seven churches never read those letters? Who did read those letters?

Who were they written to?

Quote from Catholic encyclopedia.......


What I want to know concerning the seven churches is who is the audience of this line?
Rev 2
24Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan's so-called deep secrets (I will not impose any other burden on you): 25Only hold on to what you have until I come.

Justme

I'd like to know as well, also how might I relate the 7 churches of Revelation to the churches of today, am I right in thinking that the orthodox church claims antioch as it's starting point or have I missed something, again

And God Bless All His Peoples.

 

[mythbuster]

What are epistles please?

And God Bless All His Peoples

Epistles are letters. From Dictionary.com:

1. A letter, especially a formal one. See Synonyms at letter.
2. A literary composition in the form of a letter.
3. Epistle Bible.
   1. One of the letters included as a book in the New Testament.
   2. An excerpt from one of these letters, read as part of a religious service.

So we can say we are discussing the seven epistles in Revelation.

 

[mythbuster]

To the church in Thyatira the Lord says "Nevertheless what you have hold fast until I come." (2:25)
So this church will be around at the time of the Lord's comming.

In the church of Pergamos, where Satan dwells, there was a man named Antipas who was martyred. This man was highly praised by the Lord. But what I enjoyed was Antipas means "against all."

 

[ChristianMuse]

The first I can see, but is there scripture to show that there is to be one church or 7 churches?

And God Bless All His Peoples.

The church is the body of Christ. It is made up of all born again Christians. There are many parts but one body.

There is also mention of the church which meets at so and so's place. Or the church at Corinth. This would indicate that the local fellowship can also be called by the word church. As time progressed there was an amalgamation of local churches into denominations. Then the denominations split and at other times came together. Those who were born again in these churches are the Church, the bride of Christ. But not all who are in a church are born again and therefore some are not part of the body of Christ.

This is my basic understanding of the word church. So there is one Church which is the body of Christ. And there are groups which are also called churches. It depends on context. With the three chapters of revelations I see it as applying to every example I listed earlier. In today's world the last two examples are still valid.

 

[Dad Ernie]

What became of these 7 churches?

Greetings AliOgg,

The purpose of the body of Christ is to raise up people for ministry, each according to the gift they have received from the Holy Spirit. Some Pastors, some evangelists, etc. This was taken to heart a lot more seriously in the early days of the church and the Gospel continued to spread throughout the world. So in fact the actual number of churches has increased to what we see today, but "heresies" (divisions) have crept into the church, almost right from the outset, and denominations soon developed and various sects that have mostly departed from the original truth of the Gospel. Yet, I believe that we can look at almost every church in history and find it is under the influence of one of the 7 original "church spirits". Some perhaps have even more than one "spirit" or has progressed through some or all of the types of "church spirits" as given in Revelation 1-3.

Today, we see the "organized church", often mega-churches, or with many affiliate churches. All these shall come under the influence of the Beast in Revelation and will follow the False Prophet who teaches unsound doctrine instead of relying on the one true Gospel. The Lord will "call out" His saints from these churches and seal them with the Holy Spirit, if they are not already sealed.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[Justme]

Hi mythbuster,

To the church in Thyatira the Lord says "Nevertheless what you have hold fast until I come." (2:25)
So this church will be around at the time of the Lord's comming.

Yes, that is the point except there isn't a church at Thyatira because there is no such place as Thyatira, it disappeared long ago.

Justme

 

[mythbuster]

Hi mythbuster,



Yes, that is the point except there isn't a church at Thyatira because there is no such place as Thyatira, it disappeared long ago.

Justme

True.
So something must exist today that is called the church in Thyatira. The city is gone and the Lord has not returned

 

[bluemarkus]

as to me, i see the dispensationalist interpretation valid as well.
it is striking how close we come to the church of laodicea in our church age.

MB

 

[Blank123]

The letters were written to specific churches, but IMO the teaching and warnings in them can certainly be applied to all Christians today as we are not exempt from falling into the same traps and sins that those churches did.

 

[Justme]

Hi Forum,

Ernie puts forth a nice post concerning these churches, others make good points, and tigress, I think has a solid point...............

The letters were written to specific churches, but IMO the teaching and warnings in them can certainly be applied to all Christians today

But here is the reality of the scripture. This letter was written to people of an existing church in an existing location. People of biblical times had to hear what Jesus tells them, THEM and us as well perhaps, but most importantly, Jesus told them that they should hold until He comes.

Did Jesus mislead those people?

Is there proof that people at that time didn't READ this? Not that it matters because Thyatira has disappeared now anyway so every person from Thyatira, while it existed, read these words of Jesus Christ. Did Jesus 'come' to the people who lived in Thyatira in 350 AD?

People read or heard those words.
SO
is Thyatira only symbolic even tho it existed then?

I think that the words had to have meaning to those who read that letter in biblical times. I think that letter has to have meaning to those of us reading them today..

I dearly want to read how people here reconcile this verse. It is important to me because I see it as a monsterous decision maker as far as biblical eschatology is concerned for me.

Justme