666 Mark of the beast

Ken-1122 · Nov 16, 2014

christianity is currently the largest religion on Earth, yet the bible teaches sometime in the future the mark of the beast (666) will be put on everyones forehead and they will not be allowed to buy or sell anything without this mark.

Do christians today still believe people will allow such a mark to be put on their foreheads? Ive seen people make claims that stuff like barcodes (11-26 digit numbers on products for sale) were the mark of the beast and claim cause for concern! But the bible says 666 not some 20 digit number, and it has to be put on your forehead; not the products for sale. If people are so sensitive to this that they are willing to point the finger at barcodes, what do you think their reaction would be if the actual numbers 666 were going to be put on their foreheads would have?

The bible also says nobody will know when Jesus returns. Logic tells me if the world is currently in no position to allow this mark of the beast from happening, and this has to happen before Christ returns; that he aint coming no time soon.

Am I missing something?

Ken

Dragons87 · Nov 16, 2014

Few Christians outside America and American-influenced churches believe this.

Ken-1122 · Nov 16, 2014

Dragons87 said:
Few Christians outside America and American-influenced churches believe this.

What are some of the beliefs they have concerning the mark of the beast as mentioned in the Bible?

Ken

Dragons87 · Nov 16, 2014

Basically what you said: nobody knows when Jesus is going to return, so it's pretty much pointless speculating what real-life events fit what John on Patmos saw. No church that I've ever attended in Europe taught this. It's basically left unaddressed.

WorkingForChrist · Nov 16, 2014

No one knows for sure what the mark of the beast is but the Bible says in Revelation 13:16-18

"[FONT=Arial, helvetica]And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a MARK in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the MARK, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six"

But it does say in the King James Version, which is a literal translation from the original Greek and Hebrew, that it will be in there hands or foreheads, which is why many people think it will be a microchip. It also states that 666 is the number of a man, who that man is we are unsure as of yet.
[/FONT]

Ken-1122 · Nov 16, 2014

Dragons87 said:
Basically what you said:

Didn't you just say few outside of American churches believe this stuff?

Dragons87 said:
nobody knows when Jesus is going to return, so it's pretty much pointless speculating what real-life events fit what John on Patmos saw. No church that I've ever attended in Europe taught this. It's basically left unaddressed.

I said nothing about predicting his return. I said is it safe to assume he isn't coming anytime soon.

Ken

Ken-1122 · Nov 16, 2014

WorkingForChrist said:
No one knows for sure what the mark of the beast is but the Bible says in Revelation 13:16-18

"[FONT=Arial, helvetica]And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a MARK in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the MARK, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six"

But it does say in the King James Version, which is a literal translation from the original Greek and Hebrew, that it will be in there hands or foreheads, which is why many people think it will be a microchip. It also states that 666 is the number of a man, who that man is we are unsure as of yet.
[/FONT]

Do you believe christians will allow a microchip with the numbers 666 printed on it to be inserted into their hands or forehead? Would you allow this?

Ken

2PhiloVoid · Nov 16, 2014

Ken,

I think the Mark of the Beast is already here and has been here for quite some time--centuries in fact. The mistake most Christians are making today as they attempt to interpret this infamous passage of Scripture is in imposing an 'uber' literal quality to the way in which the Mark will be manifested in historical reality. The truth is, the Mark of the Beast, as well as its accompanying number, are couched in the middle of highly metaphorical narratives. They should also be taken as metaphorical for some not so directly recognizable social manifestations.

Of course, I could be wrong. Maybe I'll be surprised someday, perhaps in the coming decades, waking up one day and turning on the Insta-Cast, only to find that for some reason, governments around the world have begun to impose a law requiring that symbols be slapped onto people's foreheads and right hands.

Dragons87 · Nov 16, 2014

Ken-1122 said:
Didn't you just say few outside of American churches believe this stuff?

Ken, sorry, the following part of what you said was what I was referring to:

The bible also says nobody will know when Jesus returns.

My feeling (based on my own admittedly limited experience, mainly in Britain) is that that is the prevailing view of Christians in Britain; we just don't worry about all that end of the world stuff like American Christians do. Consequently no one talks about micro-chipping etc.

Ken-1122 said:
I said nothing about predicting his return. I said is it safe to assume he isn't coming anytime soon.

Ken

If a person concludes, purely from the lack of micro-chipping, that Christ isn't going to come any time soon, they would be in danger of not being constantly alert, which both Jesus and Paul urge Christians to be. How can it be safe to assume he isn't coming any time soon - when at the same time no one knows when he is going to come? If you don't know when he's going to come, how can you say you know he's not going to come soon? That just doesn't make sense.

Ken-1122 · Nov 16, 2014

2PhiloVoid said:
Ken,

I think the Mark of the Beast is already here and has been here for quite some time--centuries in fact. The mistake most Christians are making today as they attempt to interpret this infamous passage of Scripture is in imposing an 'uber' literal quality to the way in which the Mark will be manifested in historical reality. The truth is, the Mark of the Beast, as well as its accompanying number, are couched in the middle of highly metaphorical narratives. They should also be taken as metaphorical for some not so directly recognizable social manifestations.
.

So what do you believe to be the mark of the beast? And where is this number 666?

Ken

2PhiloVoid · Nov 16, 2014

Ken-1122 said:
So what do you believe to be the mark of the beast? And where is this number 666?

Ken

Good question, Ken.

The Mark of the Beast is a materialistic worldview, encouraged primarily by our world's elites.

Where is the number? (Drum roll, please! ) It could be inside you....... (sounds like an 'Alien' movie, doesn't it? Or, maybe you should watch Logan's Run...you might get a better gist as to what I'm implying.)

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

WorkingForChrist · Nov 16, 2014

Ken-1122 said:
Do you believe christians will allow a microchip with the numbers 666 printed on it to be inserted into their hands or forehead? Would you allow this?

Ken

I certainly would not allow myself to be micro chipped.

Revelations 14:9-11 says "9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."

It says that you not only have to receive the mark of the beast, you also have to worship the beast, it could mean worship as in the way we worship God or it could be worship as is the way people worship there money, it is the most important thing, they do anything for more money ect.

What it is I don't know, but I think when it comes we will know and we must never take it, it is better to be persecuted on Earth for a few years and have eternal life in Heaven then to spend eternity in hell and be worldly.

Ken-1122 · Nov 16, 2014

Dragons87 said:
My feeling (based on my own admittedly limited experience, mainly in Britain) is that that is the prevailing view of Christians in Britain; we just don't worry about all that end of the world stuff like American Christians do.

Do you believe there is any truth to this claim?

dragon87 said:
If a person concludes, purely from the lack of micro-chipping, that Christ isn't going to come any time soon, they would be in danger of not being constantly alert, which both Jesus and Paul urge Christians to be. How can it be safe to assume he isn't coming any time soon - when at the same time no one knows when he is going to come? If you don't know when he's going to come, how can you say you know he's not going to come soon? That just doesn't make sense.

Micro-chipping? Im not talking about micro-chipping; that just some stuff someone else brought up. Im talking about the numbers 666 put on your forehead.
If you believe this will happen before christ returns, and it aint happening any time soon; logic tells you that Christ aint returning any time soon.

Ken

Ken-1122 · Nov 16, 2014

2PhiloVoid said:
Good question, Ken.

The Mark of the Beast is a materialistic worldview, encouraged primarily by our world's elites.

Where is the number? (Drum roll, please! ) It could be inside you....... (sounds like an 'Alien' movie, doesn't it? Or, maybe you should watch Logan's Run...you might get a better gist as to what I'm implying.)

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

So if i understand you correctly, you don't believe there will be a 666 mark on your forehead; is that correct?

Ken

2PhiloVoid · Nov 16, 2014

Ken-1122 said:
So if i understand you correctly, you don't believe there will be a 666 mark on your forehead; is that correct?

Ken

Correct, Ken.

Dragons87 · Nov 17, 2014

Ken-1122 said:
Do you believe there is any truth to this claim?

There might be, but it's not really a question that bothers me much.

Ken-1122 said:
Micro-chipping? Im not talking about micro-chipping; that just some stuff someone else brought up. Im talking about the numbers 666 put on your forehead.
If you believe this will happen before christ returns, and it aint happening any time soon; logic tells you that Christ aint returning any time soon.

Sorry; I think I get you now.

No, I don't believe that we will get a physical mark on our foreheads. John's visions are very fantastical. I don't think we ought to interpret them literally.

Ken-1122 · Nov 17, 2014

Dragons87 said:
There might be, but it's not really a question that bothers me much.

Sorry; I think I get you now.

No, I don't believe that we will get a physical mark on our foreheads. John's visions are very fantastical. I don't think we ought to interpret them literally.

So how do you interpret it? What do you think will happen?

Ken

Dragons87 · Nov 17, 2014

Ken-1122 said:
So how do you interpret it? What do you think will happen?

Ken

I must admit that John's revelations don't have much impact on my every-day life. They're fun to read and I like reading them like watching a disaster film (which I love), but I find them too fantastical to be able to interpret accurately given my layman's knowledge.

The attitude I take with "what will happen [in the end times]" is two-fold:

First, Jesus said: "Keep watch! For you don’t know what day your Lord is coming. Understand this: If a home-owner knew exactly when a burglar was coming, he would keep watch and not permit his house to be broken into. You also must be ready all the time, for the Son of Man will come when least expected."

So I (try to) keep watch every day, and don't try to compare real-life events with John's revelations to speculate when the end times are.

Secondly, there is every possibility I will meet my own personal "end time" before the actual end times (i.e. death), in which case the conclusion is the same: I (try to) keep watch every day, for I never know which breath will be my last.

ViaCrucis · Nov 17, 2014

the bible teaches sometime in the future the mark of the beast (666) will be put on everyones forehead and they will not be allowed to buy or sell anything without this mark.

Well, no. The Bible doesn't teach that. Some Christians believe that's what the Bible says, but the Bible itself doesn't say this. There's no indication in the relevant text that it has anything to do with "in the future" i.e. sometime near the end of the world or anything of the sort.

Do christians today still believe people will allow such a mark to be put on their foreheads? Ive seen people make claims that stuff like barcodes (11-26 digit numbers on products for sale) were the mark of the beast and claim cause for concern! But the bible says 666 not some 20 digit number, and it has to be put on your forehead; not the products for sale. If people are so sensitive to this that they are willing to point the finger at barcodes, what do you think their reaction would be if the actual numbers 666 were going to be put on their foreheads would have?

This is Dispensationalism. A theological system that came into existence in the early 19th century among the Plymouth Brethren traced to an ex Irish Anglican priest, John Darby. Dispensationalism slowly spread throughout the United States due to the commentary in the Scofield Reference Bible (by Cyrus Scofield) and the evangelistic work of Dwight L. Moody among others, and the establishment of Dispensationalist seminaries. Today it is a widely popular system in the United States among certain Christians. Outside of the United States it remains entirely on the fringe.

What Christians believe is diverse, but most of us do not and have not believed in all this "end times" schlock.

The bible also says nobody will know when Jesus returns. Logic tells me if the world is currently in no position to allow this mark of the beast from happening, and this has to happen before Christ returns; that he aint coming no time soon.

Am I missing something?

Yes. Nobody knows when Jesus will return, as such we don't make predictions one way or the other. Since this whole Dispensationalist system is unique to the Dispensationalists, the rest of us understand that Jesus could come in ten minutes or in ten thousand years. We don't know.

Further, Dispensationalists are the only ones who believe in "The Rapture", that Jesus "comes" to zap true believers up into heaven. Which is also the answer they would offer as for the world accepting "the mark". Since True Christians will be taken out of the world according to the Dispensationalists, then the world will be able to do all that stuff Dispensationalists say will happen.

But since the rest of us don't believe any of that, it's moot. Rather we believe when Jesus comes He comes to deliver all things to the Father, to establish peace and justice forever, world without end.

When Jesus comes there is no end times bogeyman to follow, no tribulations, no monster locusts streaming out of bottomless pits. None of that. When the Playwright walks upon the stage, the play is over.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · Nov 17, 2014

Ken-1122 said:
So how do you interpret it? What do you think will happen?

Ken

Not addressed to me, but I can offer my own position, which is one shared by a great many others.

The Apocalypse does not talk about "the end of the world". We read in the first chapter that John is addressing this letter to "the seven churches that are in Asia". These are actual churches, with real people, and thus the contents of this text is addressed to them and for them.

Thus I must read the entire text of the Apocalypse in such a way as for it to be relevant for a first century audience.

The "Beast" is not a future antichrist, but is the Roman Emperor. The "harlot of Babylon" is the city of Rome itself, the beast she rides is, again, the emperor, or rather the imperial power broadly.

The visions John sees are a form of apocalyptic, a literary style that was popular in Jewish writings in the century or two before Jesus and up and until the 2nd century AD; Daniel is an example of Jewish apocalyptic literature, as is Enoch, and there are many other examples. The Apocalypse of St. John is a Christian apocalypse that utilizes the themes of previous apocalyptic and prophetic literature, most importantly perhaps Daniel and Isaiah.

What is presented in the visions is not an outline of chronological events, instead it may be better to think of them as photographs in a scrapbook or different paintings in a gallery. They aren't telling a chronological series of events, but rather capturing pictures to say something bigger that all function to point to even larger themes and ideas. The central theme of the Apocalypse is that those Christians suffering persecution at the hands of a cruel empire can hope in Jesus Christ who having risen from the dead has victory already over all the powers of the world, and that His coming again will render all these powers obsolete--that there is a future good world beyond the immediate and dreadful reality that they presently find themselves.

Another theme is the sharp contrast between loyalty to Christ and loyalty to Caesar. Loyalty to Caesar is a mark on the right hand or forehead, associated with his name/number (six hundred and sixty-six, almost certainly Nero is intended with this number); whereas the people of God bear the seal of God on their forehead. Both of these point back to the idea where God told the Israelites to wear a mark on their right hand and forehead to keep God's Law close to them.

And so on and so forth.

It's not about the end of the world, or some far off future. It is an intentionally cryptic text addressed to a persecuted Church authored by an imprisoned pastor seeking to give hope to his flock in the midst of their sufferings at the hands of a cruel and tyrannical government.

-CryptoLutheran

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