666 is Nero Caesar!! Partial Preterist View..

[TribulationSigns]

What a preterism circus this thread has become. Nero as the antichrist/beast?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Again, Nero had no "fatal head wound that was healed" as the Beast of Revelation does. Nor did the False Prophet build an image of him that speaks.

Who is the False Prophet in Preterism ?

it’ll be interesting to see their answer to this.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Berean Tim said: ↑
Again, Nero had no "fatal head wound that was healed" as the Beast of Revelation does. Nor did the False Prophet build an image of him that speaks.

Who is the False Prophet in Preterism ?

it’ll be interesting to see their answer to this.

Yeah, that is a toughy for preterist.
1 preterist's view:

Revelation 19: A Preterist Commentary - Revelation Revolution

Revelation 19:20 Preterist Commentary: The Beast is Vespasian and the False Prophet is Titus. The Miraculous Sign that Titus Performed is calling down Fire from Heaven. The Image of the Beast is the Image of Vespasian on the Ensigns that the Roman Army Worshiped in the Temple in Jerusalem.

The two people mentioned in this verse are the two Roman generals of the Jewish War, Vespasian and Titus. The beast mentioned in this verse is Vespasian. The false prophet is Titus. Titus is called the false prophet because of what he did to fulfill Revelation 13:11-18. On the 9th of Av of A.D. 70, the Romans worshipped the ensigns in the temple in Jerusalem. When the Romans worshipped these ensigns; one of which was the Imago, a metallic image of Caesar; Titus presided over the worship of the ensigns as he was granted the title Caesar at his father’s coronation and thus would have also likely had his own image engraved on the ensign called the numina legionum beside that of his father’s. Because Titus was both general and Caesar it was expected that he would preside over the false worship of his father, the emperor, and Rome in the Temple in Jerusalem, Titus is called the false prophet in this verse as stipulated by Deuteronomy 13:1-5:

If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the Lord your God[.]

Titus is called the false prophet because he presided over the worship of foreign gods in the Temple while providing a sign that these gods were real gods while YHWH was a false god. This sign was the fire from heaven mentioned in Rev 13:13. As explained in the commentary on Rev 13, this fire from heaven was fulfilled in the fact that the Roman army launched firebrands into Jerusalem during the siege of the city as they had done earlier in the war (Wars 3.7.9). This fire from heaven was also a symbol of one of the legions which aided in the siege of Jerusalem, Legio XII Fulminata, the 12th Lightning Bolt Legion in addition to being a symbol of Rome itself. The symbol of Rome was Aquila, the eagle that carried Zeus’ lightning bolt. Aquila was the main ensign Titus’ army carried into battle.

When after displaying this sign of fire from heaven, Titus showed the Jews that these Roman gods that they worshiped on the ensigns were the true gods, not YHWH who allowed His Temple to be destroyed in addition to allowing foreign gods to be worshipped there. Then after providing this sign, Titus ordered all the Jews left in the city to be killed: “So he [Titus] ordered this proclamation to be made to them, that they [the Jews of Jerusalem] should no more come out to him as deserters, nor hope for any further security; for that he would henceforth spare nobody, but fight them with his whole army.” (Wars 6.6.3) Thus Titus acted as a dark reflection of the prophet Elijah who after calling down fire from heaven also ordered everyone who would not worship his god, YHWH, to be killed (1 Kings 18:38-40). It is also because of this similarity with the prophet Elijah that Titus is called the false prophet in this verse.
=================================

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html

CAST OF CHARACTERS: Roman: Emperor Nero | General Vespasian | General Titus | The Roman Army || Jewish: General / Historian Josephus | Factional Leaders in Jerusalem || Administrators of Roman Judea Targets: Jerusalem | Herod's Temple // Maps of the Roman Invasion // Theological Timeline

CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70

 

[Berean Tim]

Yeah, that is a toughy for preterist.
1 preterist's view:

Revelation 19: A Preterist Commentary - Revelation Revolution

Revelation 19:20 Preterist Commentary: The Beast is Vespasian and the False Prophet is Titus. The Miraculous Sign that Titus Performed is calling down Fire from Heaven. The Image of the Beast is the Image of Vespasian on the Ensigns that the Roman Army Worshiped in the Temple in Jerusalem.

The two people mentioned in this verse are the two Roman generals of the Jewish War, Vespasian and Titus. The beast mentioned in this verse is Vespasian. The false prophet is Titus. Titus is called the false prophet because of what he did to fulfill Revelation 13:11-18. On the 9th of Av of A.D. 70, the Romans worshipped the ensigns in the temple in Jerusalem. When the Romans worshipped these ensigns; one of which was the Imago, a metallic image of Caesar; Titus presided over the worship of the ensigns as he was granted the title Caesar at his father’s coronation and thus would have also likely had his own image engraved on the ensign called the numina legionum beside that of his father’s. Because Titus was both general and Caesar it was expected that he would preside over the false worship of his father, the emperor, and Rome in the Temple in Jerusalem, Titus is called the false prophet in this verse as stipulated by Deuteronomy 13:1-5:

If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the Lord your God[.]

Titus is called the false prophet because he presided over the worship of foreign gods in the Temple while providing a sign that these gods were real gods while YHWH was a false god. This sign was the fire from heaven mentioned in Rev 13:13. As explained in the commentary on Rev 13, this fire from heaven was fulfilled in the fact that the Roman army launched firebrands into Jerusalem during the siege of the city as they had done earlier in the war (Wars 3.7.9). This fire from heaven was also a symbol of one of the legions which aided in the siege of Jerusalem, Legio XII Fulminata, the 12th Lightning Bolt Legion in addition to being a symbol of Rome itself. The symbol of Rome was Aquila, the eagle that carried Zeus’ lightning bolt. Aquila was the main ensign Titus’ army carried into battle.

When after displaying this sign of fire from heaven, Titus showed the Jews that these Roman gods that they worshiped on the ensigns were the true gods, not YHWH who allowed His Temple to be destroyed in addition to allowing foreign gods to be worshipped there. Then after providing this sign, Titus ordered all the Jews left in the city to be killed: “So he [Titus] ordered this proclamation to be made to them, that they [the Jews of Jerusalem] should no more come out to him as deserters, nor hope for any further security; for that he would henceforth spare nobody, but fight them with his whole army.” (Wars 6.6.3) Thus Titus acted as a dark reflection of the prophet Elijah who after calling down fire from heaven also ordered everyone who would not worship his god, YHWH, to be killed (1 Kings 18:38-40). It is also because of this similarity with the prophet Elijah that Titus is called the false prophet in this verse.
=================================

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html

CAST OF CHARACTERS: Roman: Emperor Nero | General Vespasian | General Titus | The Roman Army || Jewish: General / Historian Josephus | Factional Leaders in Jerusalem || Administrators of Roman Judea Targets: Jerusalem | Herod's Temple // Maps of the Roman Invasion // Theological Timeline

CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70

It apparently is tough for a Preterist. As I've never heard a good explanation for who the False Prophet is. Preterist are so sure Nero is/was the Beast , but never know who the False prophet is.
I don't think you can honestly get Titus from Deuteronomy 13 1-5 can you ?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It apparently is tough for a Preterist. As I've never heard a good explanation for who the False Prophet is. Preterist are so sure Nero is/was the Beast , but never know who the False prophet is.
I don't think you can honestly get Titus from Deuteronomy 13 1-5 can you ?

Yeah. May create a thread on that.

I do have a few threads concerning Titus and the Roman army being the "destroyer" in Revelation coming against 1st century Jerusalem.
He also sets up his headquarters where Jesus gave His 70ad Jerusalem/Temple discourse, Mount of Olives.

Titus sieges Jerusalem on Feast of Passover/Destroyer in Revelation

Matthew 24 Mount of Olives and Titus's 10th Legion on Mt Olives 70ad

The first night of Titus' encampment with the 15th, 3rd and 18th Legions, the 5th Legion arrived from Emmaus and set camp north of the city on Mount Scopus.
Later the next day, the famed 10th Legion (founded by Julius Caesar) marched in from Jericho and camped on the Mount of Olives, east of the city.


Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24
1 And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.
3 Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying.............
6 “Yet ye shall be being about to be hearing battles and hearings of battles...
but not as yet the End<5056>

Mark 13
1 And He going forth out of the Temple,
3 And of sitting of Him into the Mount of the Olives overlooking the Temple,
7 “Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and hearings of battles, .....
but not as yet the End<5056>

Luke 21
5 and of some saying concerning the Temple,
9 “Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and tumults<181>, no may be being frightened<4422>, for is binding these to be becoming,
but not immediately the End<5056>

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html

 

[TribulationSigns]

Revelation 19:20 Preterist Commentary: The Beast is Vespasian and the False Prophet is Titus.

Vespasian and Titus?! LOL.

This man-made interpretation generated from a Preterist commentary is nonsense! Revelation 13 has nothing to do with Roman emperors and 70AD Jerusalem. Period.

First, you need to find God's definition of the beast with the rest of Scripture and go from there.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I'm done with this dispensational - futurist view..
it's all DOOM - GLOOM
and i cannot any longer agree with it

Good but you are not yet out of the forest. The Preterist is as flawed as your interpretation with Nero as the beast.

 

[robycop3]

"Partial preterism believes that most of the book was fulfilled
in the first-century, not all of the book."

Partial preterist interpretation of the Revelation, by chapter - Page 3

Revelation 13 identifies the beast's name
as being equated to the number 666
(or 616, your footnote may tell you).
John explicitly tells his readership
that they can identify the name behind 666
if they have wisdom. John places no other conditions
on how to "decipher" the number, which plainly means that
John's contemporaries could use wisdom
to determine the identity of who 666
(or 616) refers to. If the number 666 (or 616) refers to
a man in our future,
this task would be absolutely impossible
for every Christian from the first-century up to
whenever that man finally arrives on the scene.
John must have in mind a first-century man
if he honestly expects his contemporary Christians
to identify him using only wisdom
and not, say, the New York Times.
In extension, the identity of this first-century man
would be accessible to Christians of all times.

John tells his readers that the "mark of the beast"
is the beast's name or the number of that name,
being the number of a man. Hence,
the number is a man's name.
The practice of "codifying" a person's name into a number
was a very widespread practice
in first-century Hebrew, Greek, and Roman cultures,
whereas nowadays it is virtually non-existent.
As a matter of fact, there are two historically verified
Hebrew spellings of the name Nero Caesar.
In this practice of number-names,
the first spelling equates to 666,
the second spelling equates to 616.
The simple fact that man who began
the first official, legal persecution of Christians
bears a name that equates to both 666 and 616 is astounding.

The Beast (Revelation) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

..Nero, the emperor at the time John was writing the book, is the sixth king "who is". Suetonius' and Josephus' enumeration of the emperors was: Julius, Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius (the five kings who have fallen at the time that John is writing), Nero (one "who is"), and Galba - one who "has not yet come, but when he does come, he must remain for a little while" - six months (Rev. 17:10). Moreover, Rome was known in antiquity as the city of seven hills (Rev. 13:1, Rev. 17:9) and Revelation was a warning about events that were "shortly" to take place (Rev. 1:1).

In Rev. 13:5-8, the Beast was given a mouth speaking in blasphemies against God and His Name. Inscriptions have been found in Ephesus in which Nero is called "Almighty God" and "Savior".[12] In verse 4, the Beast is worshipped by the world alongside the Dragon that gave it Authority. Nero and Caligula "abandoned all reserve" in promoting emperor worship – they were the only two who demanded divine honors while still alive. Nero claimed to be the sun-god Apollo.

Finally, the readers of Revelation were told to "calculate the number of the Beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six" (Rev. 13:18). Since the Book of Revelation was written to a first-century audience, sometime in late 64 AD, John did not expect that his readers "who had understanding" to have any difficulty identifying the beast, since they could simply calculate the meaning of this cryptogram. "Neron Kaisar" (the Greek rendering, documented by archaeological finds), when transliterated into Hebrew &#1504;&#1512;&#1493;&#1503; &#1511;&#1505;&#1512; (Nrwn Qsr) had a number of 666. The variant number 616 found in some manuscripts of the Greek text of Revelation may represent the alternative Hebrew spelling &#1504;&#1512;&#1493; &#1511;&#1505;&#1512; (Nrw Qsr) based on the Latin form "Nero Caesar". The variant probably existed to keep consistent the meaning of Nero as the Beast.[13]

Christians should be expecting Christ not the Anti-Christ..

This Anti-Christ with the 666 has already come.
Babylon has already fallen, so the next event in Revelation
is Jesus coming back on a a white horse.
Things can only get better!!

ff

Partial preterism is as false as full preterism.

Matthew 24:29-30 make it so.

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Plainly, Jesus hasn't yet returned. If the great trib had already occurres, then either jesus is long-overdue or the Scriptures posted above are incorrect.

Simple truth - IT AINT YET HAPPENED !

 

[robycop3]

You have fabricated, or are perpetuating a fabrication, that the Scriptural Beast, Antichrist, & Man of Sin are the Same Individual.

Preterist have to separate these to fit their theory. Most others agreed the "man" in Daniel , 2nd Thessalonians and Revelation 13 are speaking of the same person.

Again, Nero had no "fatal head wound that was healed" as the Beast of Revelation does. Nor did the False Prophet build an image of him that speaks.

Who is the False Prophet in Preterism ?

Neither the beast nor his sidekick the false prophet have yet come, simple as THAT !

 

[robycop3]

Vespasian and Titus?! LOL.

This man-made interpretation generated from a Preterist commentary is nonsense! Revelation 13 has nothing to do with Roman emperors and 70AD Jerusalem. Period.

First, you need to find God's definition of the beast with the rest of Scripture and go from there.

Preterism is like the KJVO myth - man-made & false.

No Roman emperor matched ALL the Scriptural criteria for the beast, which the TRUE beast will match precisely as written. The eschatological events simply haven't yet occurred.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Preterism is like the KJVO myth - man-made & false.

No Roman emperor matched ALL the Scriptural criteria for the beast, which the TRUE beast will match precisely as written. The eschatological events simply haven't yet occurred.

Indeed, if their claim that Vespasian and Titus, their Revelation version of Batman and Robin, was even true, they can't explain what the frogs symbolically and that comes out of Vespasian and Titus' mouths that gather together armies of the WHOLE WORLD to a place called Armageddon. There was no such history.

Rev 16:13-16
(13) And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
(14) For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
(15) Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
(16) And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Of course, none of this took place in 70AD in Jerusalem.

First, they need to go to God's definition of the beast in Scripture, then find out what does the frogs represent. The mouth. And how it gathers together the kings of the earth. etc. etc.

 

[Bobber]

King Nebuchadnezzar made an image of gold, whose height was sixty cubits and its breadth six cubits... And the herald proclaimed aloud, “You are commanded, O peoples, nations, and languages, that when you hear the sound of the horn, pipe, lyre, trigon, harp, bagpipe, and every kind of music, you are to fall down and worship the golden image that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up. And whoever does not fall down and worship shall immediately be cast into a burning fiery furnace.”

Nebuchadnezzar is acting as a beast (and later, even more so) and sets up an image to be worshiped. Again, we have six and sixty associated with worship of a false image on pain of death.

All of this comes together in the name and number of the man - 666. This sums up man in his fallen state. The number carries with it the fallen glory of Solomon, his degraded wisdom, his failure to follow the word of God, his abuse of power, and his allowing himself to be turned aside to the worship of impotent gods.

Don't be afraid of symbolism; it's good for you

I'm not sure you've proven that one can't buy or sell from Rev 13 is speaking only of spiritual transitions BUT....I do find interesting your pointing out that Nebuchadnezzar's statue image was 66 cubits high and and 6 cubits wide. And that God saw fit to have the detailed dimensions of the thing put down in scripture.

 

[Douggg]

.

What message are you trying to send with your screenname avatar ? That you are a bully?

 

[robycop3]

YOUR HERO NERO...

Nero failed to fulfill many of the Scriptural criteria for the "beast", while the TRUE beast/man of sin/that Wicked/son of perdition will fulfill them all, to the letter.

Nero did not come to power by uprooting 3 other rulers. He was appointed by his uncle Claudius Caesar as his successor, & was confirmed by the Senate.

Nero was never known to have been in Jerusalem, let alone entering the temple.

Nero received no deadly head wound, from which he recovered.

Nero was not a great military leader.

Nero had no miracle-working false prophet as a deputy.

Nero was not cast alive into the lake of fire. He DIED, after having his secretary, Epaphroditus, stab him with a sword. He died in fronta witnesses.

So, Nero failed to meet many of the Scriptural criteria prophesied for the TRUE beast. Yet another pret notion goes "POOF !"

 

[robycop3]

The 5 kings that had fallen in Rev. 17 were those of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, & Greece. The one that then was, was the Roman rulers. The 7th was the Holy Roman Empire. The 8th, the empire of the antichrist/beast, will be formed initially from many of the descendants of the peoples of the 6th & 7th. Remember the 10 initial kings & their kingdoms?

The statue of Nebuchadnezzar's dream had feet of iron and clay, which will not mix, and, of course, 10 toes.

As a steelworker, I know iron & clay won't mix, and if a piece of clay is in molten steel & remains when that steel cools, that steel is weak compared to solid steel. Thus will be the last of man's empires, that of the antichrist, which "supports" all the other empires of the image, as it will be the "feet". It will be strong as iron, but weakened by its "clay", its built-in evil.

When Jesus returns, He will "smite" this empire, destroying its army its ruler sends to fight Him, & he will cast that ruler & his sidekick the false prophet alive into the lake of fire, as their evil will speak for itself & no further judgment is needed. And, of course, Jesus will then rule the world from Jerusalem, His kingdom being the mountain of Neb's dream that fills the whole world.

 

[Bobber]

When Jesus returns, He will "smite" this empire, destroying its army its ruler sends to fight Him, & he will cast that ruler & his sidekick the false prophet alive into the lake of fire, as their evil will speak for itself & no further judgment is needed. And, of course, Jesus will then rule the world from Jerusalem, His kingdom being the mountain of Neb's dream that fills the whole world.

So I'm curious. How does all this fit in with the scripture which speaks of a new heaven and a new earth for the old one was destroyed by fire? 2 Pt 3:10

 

[robycop3]

That comes after the millenium is over.