616 or 666: Which is the devil's number?

RMDY

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I'm in a discussion with a guy who pulled a bunch of 'contradictions' probably from some athiest website and it included the mark of the beast as being 616 instead of 666. He's trying to discredit me preaching Jesus and I need help and understanding about this whole matter. Please help me.
 

Davidnic

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Actually some translation issues do make a valid argument for 616. That would not be a contradiction. It would be if the translators used the Latin for Nero (Fully saying "Nero Caeser"). So 666, 616...really it is the same thing. Just a translation issue.
 
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RMDY

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Well, I'm locked in a spiritual battle with him with many people watching on the sidelines and some people supporting him, and he dropped this bomb on me, which if I can't defend against, would silence me and discredit Christ amongst many many people. So please, I ask for your prayers and for helping in dealing with this...


This is what he said to me:

"Btw, this is what you listen to. Contradictions of the bible :D

Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

(a) God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)

(b) Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1 )

==================

In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?

(a) Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9 )

(b) One million, one hundred thousand (IChronicles 21:5)

==================

How many fighting men were found in Judah?

(a) Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9 )

(b) Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5 )


==================

God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?

(a) Seven (2 Samuel 24:13 )

(b) Three (I Chronicles 21:12 )

===================

How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?

(a) Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)

(b) Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2 )

===================

How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?

(a) Eighteen (2 Kings 24:8 )

(b) Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9 )

====================

How long did he rule over Jerusalem?

(a) Three months (2 Kings 24:8 )

(b) Three months and ten days (2 Chronicles 36:9 )

====================

The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time?

(a) Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:8 )

(b) Three hundred (I Chronicles 11: 11)


====================

When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?

(a) After (2 Samuel 5 and 6)

(b) Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14)

======================

How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?

(a) Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)

(b) Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9)


=====================

When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture?

(a) One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4)

(b) Seven thousand (I Chronicles 18:4)

===================

How many stalls for horses did Solomon have?

(a) Forty thousand (I Kings 4:26)

(b) Four thousand (2 chronicles 9:25)

====================

In what year of King Asa's reign did Baasha, King of Israel die?

(a) Twenty-sixth year (I Kings 15:33 - 16:8)

(b) Still alive in the thirty-sixth year (2 Chronicles 16:1)

====================

How many overseers did Solomon appoint for the work of building the temple?

(a) Three thousand six hundred (2 Chronicles 2:2)

(b) Three thousand three hundred (I Kings 5:16)

=====================

Solomon built a facility containing how many baths?

(a) Two thousand (1 Kings 7:26)

(b) Over three thousand (2 Chronicles 4:5)

====================

Of the Israelites who were freed from the Babylonian captivity, how many were the children of Pahrath-Moab?

(a) Two thousand eight hundred and twelve (Ezra 2:6)

(b) Two thousand eight hundred and eighteen (Nehemiah 7:11)


====================

How many were the children of Zattu?

(a) Nine hundred and forty-five (Ezra 2:8)

(b) Eight hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:13)


====================

Did Joshua and the Israelites capture Jerusalem?

(a) Yes (Joshua 10:23, 40)

(b) No (Joshua 15:63)

====================

Jesus descended from which son of David?

(a) Solomon (Matthew 1:6)

(b) Nathan(Luke3:31)

====================

How did Simon Peter find out that Jesus was the Christ?

(a) By a revelation from heaven (Matthew 16:17)

(b) His brother Andrew told him (John 1:41)

=====================

When Jesus met Jairus was Jairus’ daughter already dead?

(a) Yes. Matthew 9:18 quotes him as saying, “My daughter has just died.”

(b) No. Mark 5:23 quotes him as saying, “My little daughter is at the point of death.”

=====================

Did Herod think that Jesus was John the Baptist?

(a) Yes (Matthew 14:2; Mark 6:16)

(b) No (Luke 9:9)

=====================

According to the Gospel of John, what did Jesus say about bearing his own witness?

(a) “If I bear witness to myself, my testimony is not true” (John 5:3 1)

(b) “Even if I do bear witness to myself, my testimony is true” (John 8:14)

=====================

Did Judas kiss Jesus?

(a) Yes (Matthew 26:48-50)

(b) No. Judas could not get close enough to Jesus to kiss him (John 18:3-12)

=====================

Did Jesus bear his own cross?

(a) Yes (John 19:17)

(b) No (Matthew 27:31-32)

=====================

(a) Yes(Matthew27:50-5 1;MarklS:37-38)

(b) No. After the curtain was torn, then Jesus crying with a loud voice, said, “Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last (Luke 23:45-46)

=====================

Did Jesus say anything secretly?

(a) No. “I have said nothing secretly” (John 18:20)

(b) Yes. “He did not speak to them without a parable, but privately to his own disciples he explained everything” (Mark 4:34). The disciples asked him “Why do you speak to them in parables?” He said, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given” (Matthew 13: 1 0-11)

=====================

Where was Jesus at the sixth hour on the day of the crucifixion?

(a) On the cross (Mark 15:23)

(b) In Pilate’s court (John 19:14)

====================

What was the exact wording on the cross?

(a) “This is Jesus the King of the Jews” (Matthew 27:37)

(b) “The King of the Jews” (Mark 15:26)

© “This is the King of the Jews” (Luke 23:38)

(d) “Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews” (John 19:19)

====================

Did Herod want to kill John the Baptist?

(a) Yes (Matthew 14:5)

(b) No. It was Herodias, the wife of Herod who wanted to kill him. But Herod knew that he was a righteous man and kept him safe (Mark 6:20)

====================

Who was the tenth disciple of Jesus in the list of twelve?

(a) Thaddaeus (Matthew 10: 1-4; Mark 3:13 -19)

(b) Judas son of James is the corresponding name in Luke’s gospel (Luke 6:12-16)

==================

(a) Adam was told that if and when he eats the forbidden fruit he would die the same day (Genesis 2:17)

(b) Adam ate the fruit and went on to live to a ripe old age of 930 years (Genesis 5:5)

===================

(a) God decided that the life-span of humans will be limited to 120 years (Genesis 6:3)

(b) Many people born after that lived longer than 120. Arpachshad lived 438 years. His son Shelah lived 433 years. His son Eber lived 464 years, etc. (Genesis 11:12-16)

===================

Would you like me to keep going? I have plenty more where that came from."
 
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Davidnic

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The answer to this depends on how you view the Bible, I view it as inerrant in Spiritual Truth not in historical fact. The early Hebrew histories (Kings, Chronicles and such) were written by different groups and different groups have different takes on history. As far as the Gospels...each writer wrote for a different audience so there are different focuses.

Some of what he brings up is just double talk...for example:

Did Jesus say anything secretly?

(a) No. “I have said nothing secretly” (John 18:20)

(b) Yes. “He did not speak to them without a parable, but privately to his own disciples he explained everything” (Mark 4:34). The disciples asked him “Why do you speak to them in parables?” He said, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given” (Matthew 13: 1 0-11)


Two different issues, one is how he preached openly and those accusing Him never came then, the other is explaining the meaning of things to the 12 differently by telling them the deeper meanings than to the crowds, where He spoke in Parables. That is just not the same thing. And there are many of those in his list. Others can be explained by understanding what the Church teaches on the Bible and where the Bible came from as a document and what the protection of inspired writing is and is not.

But other issues of contradiction come down to:

What is meant when we say the Bible is inspired?
Do we claim historical or scientific perfection?

I'll try to get to it more fully later if someone else does not first.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Being that the number is symbolic - and symbols must come to fruition before we understand them - it doesnt matter what the number is....imo.

But i read both sides of this coin. Depending on translation.
 
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RMDY

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Thank you for your answers so far. I have just begun to try to understand all of this.

The thing I am wrestling to understand right now is:

"Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

(a) God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)

(b) Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1 )"




Any help on this one would be great. Thank you =)
 
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Davidnic

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Thank you for your answers so far. I have just begun to try to understand all of this.

The thing I am wrestling to understand right now is:

"Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

(a) God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)

(b) Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1 )"




Any help on this one would be great. Thank you =)

There are times when God uses Satan. Remember Job. Satan always desires to attack and tempt. At times some people are protected by God from that. God will prevent Satan from tempting and inciting and at times He will allow it, depending on how the outcome, with the help of grace, can better serve His will and bring about good.

So with David the above is not a contradiction.

It opens a greater discussion on evil and how God turns evil to His will. God allows evil because it is brought by our free will and free choice. But He turns it to His will. But that is a side discussion.

How is the above not a contradiction? God did it, He used Satan by allowing Satan to incite David who God had previously preserved from Satan.
 
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AMDG

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The number is symbolic, but I like how one person "remembers" the devils number: the Gospel of John, chapter 6, verse 66 , "From that time many of His diciples went back, and walked no more with Him". What "time"? Well, when Jesus says we must eat His body and drink His blood. It proved so difficult a saying that even some of Jesus' disciples went away from Him--guess that's exactly what the devil wants--to make us decide to "walk away" from Jesus. Hence, John 6:66 helps him to remember the devil's number.

Yes, I know that the Bible wasn't rendered into chapters and verses until long after it was written so this "memory device" is more a symbol too.
 
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