4th Circuit Court of Appeals says state health-care plans can’t exclude gender-affirming surgery

[Always in His Presence]

Maybe cutting out military budget in half will not work, but we could spend a little less money on fighting foreign wars, and focus on helping our own country instead.

I have long been a proponent of closing about 10% of our foreign bases and moving the troops to the Southern Border. Two squads could end all this foolishness on college campuses also.

 

[AlexB23]

I have long been a proponent of closing about 10% of our foreign bases and moving the troops to the Southern Border. Two squads could end all this foolishness on college campuses also.

That might work, but we as a society will have to do some research, and make sure that an independent organization monitors the activities of the squads, to protect 1st Amendment rights. We can also have an Infrastructure Security military squadron (not affiliated with any political party) that can analyze election infrastructure and general infrastructure to prevent Russian and Chinese hackers from messing with the elections, US water supply or the national grid.

 

[Always in His Presence]

That might work, but we as a society will have to do some research, and make sure that an independent organization monitors the activities of the squads, to protect 1st Amendment rights.

Let me guess - you have not served in the Military? If you had, you would not say such things. Just pointing something out.

We can also have an Infrastructure Security military squadron (not affiliated with any political party) that can analyze election infrastructure and general infrastructure to prevent Russian and Chinese hackers from messing with the elections, US water supply or the national grid.

We already have those elements in place in intelligence -

 

[AlexB23]

Let me guess - you have not served in the Military? If you had, you would not say such things. Just pointing something out.

We already have those elements in place in intelligence -

I have not served in the military at all, though my grandfather did, in the Pacific back in the 1940s. It is good that the military has checks and balances.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Absolutely correct:

1. Sustained high inflation
2. a porous Southern Border
3. a (IMHO) weak and mostly feckless commander in chief costing military lives
4. US citizens being held hostage and Joe is more concerned about the radical left's complaining than getting them home.

It is almost identical to Jimmy Carter part one.

Hopefully it will end the same.

None of this has to do with the topic, but where exactly are US military lives being lost in the last 3 years?

 

[RileyG]

Okay, say it’s made so that people seeking transgender healthcare should have a “waiting period” of, oh, say six months before treatment begins…would that be a good idea?



What is this supposed to mean?



Which you’re entitled to. That it seems to lack any empathy for these folk is probably a judgement I’ve put on you and I must work on that.

We don’t know the long term effects of trans surgery or hormones.

Maybe I misunderstood? There is no lack of empathy. Just because I do not believe they aren’t truly the opposite gender doesn’t mean I lack empathy. I’m not denying the seriousness of gender dysphoria.

 

[Laodicean60]

None of this has to do with the topic, but where exactly are US military lives being lost in the last 3 years?

13 in Afghanistan. Plus the ones attacked in Jordan.

 

[Pommer]

We don’t know the long term effects of trans surgery or hormones.

How might we get this information?

Maybe I misunderstood? There is no lack of empathy. Just because I do not believe they aren’t truly the opposite gender doesn’t mean I lack empathy. I’m not denying the seriousness of gender dysphoria.

But handing them a full length mirror and telling them, look, you got the body you got, we all have some things that we don’t like about our own bodies, but we ain’t rushing out to get it ‘treated’! misses their plight.

Now, I can agree that “pushing” this onto children is incorrect, but this case was about adult human beings being denied treatment by their states for nothing more than ”having the wrong condition“.

 

[Desk trauma]

Depends. Even after surgery many trans people have suicidal ideation.

Just as many whose depression is treated also end their own lives. Shall we ban that as well?

 

[Hans Blaster]

13 in Afghanistan. Plus the ones attacked in Jordan.

This is unfortunate, but quite low given recent US military history. During the Trump presidency the number was also low but it was higher (65). I don't blame either of them for these numbers.

 

[Always in His Presence]

None of this has to do with the topic, but where exactly are US military lives being lost in the last 3 years?

It was a reply to a question - part of a conversation - therefore it was made on topic -

I'm sorry, were you asleep and missed this:

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/29/1032044382/what-we-know-about-the-13-u-s-service-members-killed-in-the-kabul-attack

 

[SimplyMe]

Yeah, but those disorders of multiple chromosomes are 1 in 500 people, vs the trans movement which is 1 in 70 Americans, as I said in an earlier post. The trans movement is 5-10x bigger compared to people born with an extra chromosome. See the discrepancy? So that means healthy individuals with a regular XX or XY set of chromosomes want to shift their original gender.

I didn't try to claim that you had to have a chromosome difference to be trans, merely that the research tends to show that it is caused in the womb. Studies of transsexuals show that their brains have the characteristics of the gender that they claim to be. Studies done on other animals have shown that introducing the hormone of the sex opposite the offspring given at a particular stage of development causes them to be transsexual. We've discovered that in polluted areas of coastline, where there are high levels of fertilizers and other estrogenic chemicals, have caused transsexual animals to be born.

Perhaps there are some that aren't actually transsexual today and that is something the medical community needs to do a proper job of weeding out. The fact remains that there does seem to be an actual birth defect, one that is difficult to make while the patient is alive (it basically requires an autopsy of the brain, scans alone aren't accurate enough), and that therapy has not shown the ability to fix. I'll also point out that the way many transsexuals are treated today, that making them feel like a "man in a dress" or similar, obviously causes suicide issues in those that successfully transition -- and that ending as a "man in a dress" is far less likely if treatment (such as puberty blockers and hormones) occurs earlier, such as during early teen years.

I'm not advocating anything here, merely pointing out that it is a tough issue but one that, from the research of the last few decades clearly appears to have a real, physical cause (is essentially a birth defect), and that starting current treatments later is less successful. I'll also agree we need better treatments but, short of much better types of surgery or the ability to actually change a persons physical sex, I'm unclear where that better treatment will come from.

 

[AlexB23]

I didn't try to claim that you had to have a chromosome difference to be trans, merely that the research tends to show that it is caused in the womb. Studies of transsexuals show that their brains have the characteristics of the gender that they claim to be. Studies done on other animals have shown that introducing the hormone of the sex opposite the offspring given at a particular stage of development causes them to be transsexual. We've discovered that in polluted areas of coastline, where there are high levels of fertilizers and other estrogenic chemicals, have caused transsexual animals to be born.

Perhaps there are some that aren't actually transsexual today and that is something the medical community needs to do a proper job of weeding out. The fact remains that there does seem to be an actual birth defect, one that is difficult to make while the patient is alive (it basically requires an autopsy of the brain, scans alone aren't accurate enough), and that therapy has not shown the ability to fix. I'll also point out that the way many transsexuals are treated today, that making them feel like a "man in a dress" or similar, obviously causes suicide issues in those that successfully transition -- and that ending as a "man in a dress" is far less likely if treatment (such as puberty blockers and hormones) occurs earlier, such as during early teen years.

I'm not advocating anything here, merely pointing out that it is a tough issue but one that, from the research of the last few decades clearly appears to have a real, physical cause (is essentially a birth defect), and that starting current treatments later is less successful. I'll also agree we need better treatments but, short of much better types of surgery or the ability to actually change a persons physical sex, I'm unclear where that better treatment will come from.

You said "last few decades". Yep, more evidence that morals are getting thrown out the window in the 21st century. Both the left and the right have been throwing ethics away for the past few years.

So, let us not pollute our children with gender hormones or the trans movement, as your post mentions how polluting our ecosystem has made trans animals.

 

[Pommer]

You said "last few decades". Yep, more evidence that morals are getting thrown out the window in the 21st century. Both the left and the right have been throwing ethics away for the past few years.

How is a medical condition “immoral”?

 

[RileyG]

Just as many whose depression is treated also end their own lives. Shall we ban that as well?

Again, I don’t think it’s comparable.

 

[RileyG]

How might we get this information?

But handing them a full length mirror and telling them, look, you got the body you got, we all have some things that we don’t like about our own bodies, but we ain’t rushing out to get it ‘treated’! misses their plight.

Now, I can agree that “pushing” this onto children is incorrect, but this case was about adult human beings being denied treatment by their states for nothing more than ”having the wrong condition“.

I don’t really care what adults do, doesn’t mean I have to accept everything they do. Let them face the consequences of their own decisions if their body rejects treatment or hormones. It’s their own choice.

 

[SimplyMe]

I didn't try to claim that you had to have a chromosome difference to be trans, merely that the research tends to show that it is caused in the womb. Studies of transsexuals show that their brains have the characteristics of the gender that they claim to be. Studies done on other animals have shown that introducing the hormone of the sex opposite the offspring given at a particular stage of development causes them to be transsexual. We've discovered that in polluted areas of coastline, where there are high levels of fertilizers and other estrogenic chemicals, have caused transsexual animals to be born.

Perhaps there are some that aren't actually transsexual today and that is something the medical community needs to do a proper job of weeding out. The fact remains that there does seem to be an actual birth defect, one that is difficult to make while the patient is alive (it basically requires an autopsy of the brain, scans alone aren't accurate enough), and that therapy has not shown the ability to fix. I'll also point out that the way many transsexuals are treated today, that making them feel like a "man in a dress" or similar, obviously causes suicide issues in those that successfully transition -- and that ending as a "man in a dress" is far less likely if treatment (such as puberty blockers and hormones) occurs earlier, such as during early teen years.

I'm not advocating anything here, merely pointing out that it is a tough issue but one that, from the research of the last few decades clearly appears to have a real, physical cause (is essentially a birth defect), and that starting current treatments later is less successful. I'll also agree we need better treatments but, short of much better types of surgery or the ability to actually change a persons physical sex, I'm unclear where that better treatment will come from.

That it has only been the last few decades that we've had the technology to isolate things like DNA does not mean it has only been an issue in that time period. The first transsexual surgery was over a century ago. You have Thomas(ine) Hall, who might have been the first "American" transsexual (1600's Virginia). Chevalier d'Eon, who was an interesting character in the 18th Century. You have Elagabalus, one of the nobility of Rome, Ashurbanipal of the Neo-Assyerian empire; and that isn't counting various traditions among Indians (from India) and Native Americans legends of people like the Hijra, Kinnar, and Aravani or the "Two-Spirits."

Or is your thought that no research should be done and just deny that there are people that suffer with it?

 

[Pommer]

That it has only been the last few decades that we've had the technology to isolate things like DNA does not mean it has only been an issue in that time period. The first transsexual surgery was over a century ago. You have Thomas(ine) Hall, who might have been the first "American" transsexual (1600's Virginia). Chevalier d'Eon, who was an interesting character in the 18th Century. You have Elagabalus, one of the nobility of Rome, Ashurbanipal of the Neo-Assyerian empire; and that isn't counting various traditions among Indians (from India) and Native Americans legends of people like the Hijra, Kinnar, and Aravani or the "Two-Spirits."

Or is your thought that no research should be done and just deny that there are people that suffer with it?

There’s lot to be said for the “hey let’s highly honor these precious few” view, (unless the 99.4% “take-rate” (the DNA worked “correctly), isn’t somehow, “enough”.)