4 scientific evidence for a young earth

xianghua

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although the design argument doesnt depend on the age of the earth, we still need to remember that the age of the earth is a belief rather then a fact. so here are 4 evidence for a young earth:

1) human population growth: according to evolution human population pass the 1 billion limit only in the last hundreds years (from the last 2-3 my years):

350px-Population_curve.svg.png


(image from Human overpopulation - Wikipedia)

so its should look like this:
pop2.png

is it a coincidence that the data fit well with a young earth prediction?

2) DNA from an old fossil. according to the scientific data DNA should not survive for more then about 10,000 years under an average temp (10-20c)(https://www.researchgate.net/publication/291781657_Biomolecules_in_fossil_remains (table1). so according to the scientific data we can predict that we will not find an old fossil (20my old) with DNA. but surprisingly we actually found such a fossil:

DNA sequences from Miocene fossils: an ndhF sequence of Magnolia latahensis (Magnoliaceae) and an rbcL sequence of Persea pseudocarolinensis (Lauraceae)

so again, is it a coincidence that the data fit well with a young earth prediction?:
2.png

the main objection to this finding is the claim about contamination. but not in this specific case:

"The possibility of contamination is extremely low because no PCR products were detected in any negative controls, and the laboratory at Washington State University in which DNA of M. latahensis was extracted, amplified, and sequenced never possessed samples of the four extant species of Magnolia that share an ndhF sequence with M. latahensis."

3) stalactite length. the average stalactite growth rate is about 1 cm per 100 years. so if the earth is indeed so young we expect to find that most stalactites (dont be confuse with stalagmites) should be no more then 50-100cm long. this is indeed what we find in most stalactites caves:
main-qimg-8b1945f873f8fa0dc7c5d30af01444d6-c

(image from https://www.quora.com/Why-do-stalac...n-occur-in-pairs-Is-such-occurrence-important)

the main objection to this claim is that those stalactites may fall apart every several thousands years. but if it was true then the floor should be full of stalactites chunks (about 100 stalactites in the floor for every single stalactite above in a 1my old cave). and as you can see in the image, this isnt what we find.

4) radiometric dating can be wrong up to 100000% from the real age. for instance: a living snail was date to about 27,000 years by c14:

Major carbon-14 deficiency in modern snail shells from southern nevada springs. - PubMed - NCBI

rhenium-osmium dating can be wrong up to billion fold from the real age under some conditions and so on:

Phys. Rev. Lett. 77, 5190 (1996) - Observation of Bound-State ${\mathit{\ensuremath{\beta}}}^{\ensuremath{-}}$ Decay of Fully Ionized ${}^{187}$Re: ${}^{187}$Re${\ensuremath{-}}^{187}$Os Cosmochronometry

the main objection is that usually those methods agree with each other. but how do we know they are correct if their error range is so huge? can we consider a method that can be wrong up to 1 billion fold to be a scientific method?
 
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Jimmy D

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Is there any point in responding? Probably not, but I have to ask, what age does this ‘evidence’ point to?

Even if your points were correct, which they obviously aren’t, they would only give us the size of the human population throughout the last 10000 years, the possibility that dinosaurs are more recent than believed, the average age of stalactites and the unreliability of dating methods.

So how do they evidence the age of the Earth?
 
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xianghua

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Is there any point in responding? Probably not, but I have to ask, what age does this ‘evidence’ point to?

Even if your points were correct, which they obviously aren’t, they would only give us the size of the human population throughout the last 10000 years, the possibility that dinosaurs are more recent than believed, the average age of stalactites and the unreliability of dating methods.

So how do they evidence the age of the Earth?
i dont realy know what the age of the earth is. but i do know that its just a belief, and we have several evidence that contradict this belief. here is another interesting finding:

P1030144.jpg


(image from Dinosaur of Ta Prohm)

look very similar to a stegosaur:

71Y9vZe15WL._SY355_.jpg
(image from https://www.amazon.co.uk/Inflatable-Stegosaurus-Dinosaur-long-Blow-animal/dp/B001TPZ3PM)
 
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Skreeper

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i dont realy know what the age of the earth is. but i do know that its just a belief, and we have several evidence that contradict this belief. here is another interesting finding:

P1030144.jpg


(image from Dinosaur of Ta Prohm)

look very similar to a stegosaur:

71Y9vZe15WL._SY355_.jpg
(image from https://www.amazon.co.uk/Inflatable-Stegosaurus-Dinosaur-long-Blow-animal/dp/B001TPZ3PM)

There are several possible explanations for this carving:

1) It’s a recently-carved hoax

2) The ancient Khmers could have unearthed a fossil and figured out what kind of creature it belonged to

3)The image actually shows a cow or rhino with a palm tree in the background
 
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DogmaHunter

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although the design argument doesnt depend on the age of the earth, we still need to remember that the age of the earth is still a belief rather then a fact. so here are 4 evidence for a young earth:

1) human population growth: according to evolution human population pass the 1 billion limit only in the last hundreds years (from the last 2-3 my years):

350px-Population_curve.svg.png


(image from Human overpopulation - Wikipedia)

so its should look like this:
View attachment 213601
is it a coincidence that the data fit well with a young earth prediction?
No. Instead, just an example of a person who doesn't understand population growths and how the rise of farming, settling down and progress in general plays a role in life expectancy and unecessary death.

2) DNA from an old fossil. according to the scientific data DNA should not survive for more then about 10,000 years under an average temp (10-20c)(https://www.researchgate.net/publication/291781657_Biomolecules_in_fossil_remains (table1). so according to the scientific data we can predict that we will not find an old fossil (20my old) with DNA. but surprisingly we actually found such a fossil:

DNA sequences from Miocene fossils: an ndhF sequence of Magnolia latahensis (Magnoliaceae) and an rbcL sequence of Persea pseudocarolinensis (Lauraceae)

so again, is it a coincidence that the data fit well with a young earth prediction?:
View attachment 213602
the main objection to this finding is the claim about contamination. but not in this specific case:

"The possibility of contamination is extremely low because no PCR products were detected in any negative controls, and the laboratory at Washington State University in which DNA of M. latahensis was extracted, amplified, and sequenced never possessed samples of the four extant species of Magnolia that share an ndhF sequence with M. latahensis."

Failing to read up on how DNA can be preserved.

3) stalactite length. the average stalactite growth rate is about 1 cm per 100 years. so if the earth is indeed so young we expect to find that most stalactites (dont be confuse with stalagmites) should be no more then 50-100cm long. this is indeed what we find in most stalactites caves:
main-qimg-8b1945f873f8fa0dc7c5d30af01444d6-c

(image from https://www.quora.com/Why-do-stalac...n-occur-in-pairs-Is-such-occurrence-important)

the main objection to this claim is that those stalactites may fall apart every several thousands years. but if it was true then the floor should be full of stalactites chunks (about 100 stalactites in the floor for every single stalactite above in a 1my old cave). and as you can see in the image, this isnt what we find.

And yet, we find several hundred thousands of winter/summer cycles in ice cores at the poles.

4) radiometric dating can be wrong up to 100000% from the real age. for instance: a living snail was date to about 27,000 years by c14:

Major carbon-14 deficiency in modern snail shells from southern nevada springs. - PubMed - NCBI

rhenium-osmium dating can be wrong up to billion fold from the real age under some conditions and so on:

Phys. Rev. Lett. 77, 5190 (1996) - Observation of Bound-State ${\mathit{\ensuremath{\beta}}}^{\ensuremath{-}}$ Decay of Fully Ionized ${}^{187}$Re: ${}^{187}$Re${\ensuremath{-}}^{187}$Os Cosmochronometry

the main objection is that usually those methods agree with each other. but how do we know they are correct if their error range is so huge? can we consider a method that can be wrong up to 1 billion fold to be a scientific method?

Not using dating methods correctly, will yield incorrect results.


As usual, your ignorance on the matters knows no bounds, it seems.
That's fine though. Ignorance is easily cured.

Willfull ignorance on the other hand...
 
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DogmaHunter

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i dont realy know what the age of the earth is. but i do know that its just a belief, and we have several evidence that contradict this belief. here is another interesting finding:

P1030144.jpg


(image from Dinosaur of Ta Prohm)

look very similar to a stegosaur:

71Y9vZe15WL._SY355_.jpg
(image from https://www.amazon.co.uk/Inflatable-Stegosaurus-Dinosaur-long-Blow-animal/dp/B001TPZ3PM)

I suggest doing moondust and radio halo's next.

Perhaps afterwards, you can make some posts about Piltdown and Haeckels embryo's or something?
 
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majj27

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3) stalactite length. the average stalactite growth rate is about 1 cm per 100 years. so if the earth is indeed so young we expect to find that most stalactites (dont be confuse with stalagmites) should be no more then 50-100cm long. this is indeed what we find in most stalactites caves:
main-qimg-8b1945f873f8fa0dc7c5d30af01444d6-c

(image from https://www.quora.com/Why-do-stalac...n-occur-in-pairs-Is-such-occurrence-important)

the main objection to this claim is that those stalactites may fall apart every several thousands years. but if it was true then the floor should be full of stalactites chunks (about 100 stalactites in the floor for every single stalactite above in a 1my old cave). and as you can see in the image, this isnt what we find.

And you know those caves have been in existence for the entire age of the earth because...?
 
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ruthiesea

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No. Instead, just an example of a person who doesn't understand population growths and how the rise of farming, settling down and progress in general plays a role in life expectancy and unecessary death.



Failing to read up on how DNA can be preserved.



And yet, we find several hundred thousands of winter/summer cycles in ice cores at the poles.



Not using dating methods correctly, will yield incorrect results.


As usual, your ignorance on the matters knows no bounds, it seems.
That's fine though. Ignorance is easily cured.

Willfull ignorance on the other hand...
The population growth rate that ID uses totally ignores the variations in population numbers caused by wars, disease, famines, etc.
 
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juvenissun

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1) human population growth: according to evolution human population pass the 1 billion limit only in the last hundreds years (from the last 2-3 my years):

2) DNA from an old fossil. according to the scientific data DNA should not survive for more then about 10,000 years under an average temp (10-20c)

3) stalactite length. the average stalactite growth rate is about 1 cm per 100 years. so if the earth is indeed so young we expect to find that most stalactites (dont be confuse with stalagmites) should be no more then 50-100cm long. this is indeed what we find in most stalactites caves:

4) radiometric dating can be wrong up to 100000% from the real age. for instance: a living snail was date to about 27,000 years by c14:

1. The curve of human population is excellent when used in theology.
2. The DNA problem is a real challenge to biologist. I haven't seen any convincing argument against it yet. They just pretend the data are not there.
3. The cave thing provides a negative argument: Cave stuff can NOT be used to support an old earth.
4. Radiometric dating is actually a two-edge sword. It hurts evolution as seriously as creation. Ultimately, it is a tool of unknown origin.

Great work and thanks. I like the human population curve the most. It is a very very significant curve in Christian theology and apologetics.
 
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Jimmy D

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i dont realy know what the age of the earth is. but i do know that its just a belief, and we have several evidence that contradict this belief.

How does anything in the OP contradict that "belief"? Human populations, stalactites, dinosars etc have nothing to do with the age of the Earth.
 
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Jimmy D

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There are several possible explanations for this carving:

1) It’s a recently-carved hoax

2) The ancient Khmers could have unearthed a fossil and figured out what kind of creature it belonged to

3)The image actually shows a cow or rhino with a palm tree in the background

Or

4) Miraculously a population of dinosaurs survived deep in the jungles until recent times. More or less impossible obviously but it would still have no bearing on the age of the Earth.
 
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Dave RP

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although the design argument doesnt depend on the age of the earth, we still need to remember that the age of the earth is a belief rather then a fact. so here are 4 evidence for a young earth:

1) human population growth: according to evolution human population pass the 1 billion limit only in the last hundreds years (from the last 2-3 my years):

350px-Population_curve.svg.png


(image from Human overpopulation - Wikipedia)

so its should look like this:
View attachment 213601
is it a coincidence that the data fit well with a young earth prediction?

2) DNA from an old fossil. according to the scientific data DNA should not survive for more then about 10,000 years under an average temp (10-20c)(https://www.researchgate.net/publication/291781657_Biomolecules_in_fossil_remains (table1). so according to the scientific data we can predict that we will not find an old fossil (20my old) with DNA. but surprisingly we actually found such a fossil:

DNA sequences from Miocene fossils: an ndhF sequence of Magnolia latahensis (Magnoliaceae) and an rbcL sequence of Persea pseudocarolinensis (Lauraceae)

so again, is it a coincidence that the data fit well with a young earth prediction?:
View attachment 213602
the main objection to this finding is the claim about contamination. but not in this specific case:

"The possibility of contamination is extremely low because no PCR products were detected in any negative controls, and the laboratory at Washington State University in which DNA of M. latahensis was extracted, amplified, and sequenced never possessed samples of the four extant species of Magnolia that share an ndhF sequence with M. latahensis."

3) stalactite length. the average stalactite growth rate is about 1 cm per 100 years. so if the earth is indeed so young we expect to find that most stalactites (dont be confuse with stalagmites) should be no more then 50-100cm long. this is indeed what we find in most stalactites caves:
main-qimg-8b1945f873f8fa0dc7c5d30af01444d6-c

(image from https://www.quora.com/Why-do-stalac...n-occur-in-pairs-Is-such-occurrence-important)

the main objection to this claim is that those stalactites may fall apart every several thousands years. but if it was true then the floor should be full of stalactites chunks (about 100 stalactites in the floor for every single stalactite above in a 1my old cave). and as you can see in the image, this isnt what we find.

4) radiometric dating can be wrong up to 100000% from the real age. for instance: a living snail was date to about 27,000 years by c14:

Major carbon-14 deficiency in modern snail shells from southern nevada springs. - PubMed - NCBI

rhenium-osmium dating can be wrong up to billion fold from the real age under some conditions and so on:

Phys. Rev. Lett. 77, 5190 (1996) - Observation of Bound-State ${\mathit{\ensuremath{\beta}}}^{\ensuremath{-}}$ Decay of Fully Ionized ${}^{187}$Re: ${}^{187}$Re${\ensuremath{-}}^{187}$Os Cosmochronometry

the main objection is that usually those methods agree with each other. but how do we know they are correct if their error range is so huge? can we consider a method that can be wrong up to 1 billion fold to be a scientific method?

Population growth really accelerated with settled farming, the population density the world can support from a hunter gatherer society is tiny, all the graph show is that it is only in the recent past that we have had settled farming and industrial techniques to support that number of people.
 
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essentialsaltes

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1) human population growth: according to evolution human population pass the 1 billion limit only in the last hundreds years (from the last 2-3 my years)

OK.

is it a coincidence that the data fit well with a young earth prediction?

A host of fail, starting with non sequitur. Does the young earth predict that humans passed the 1 billion limit at some other time? Because that's the only data you've mentioned, and attributed it to 'according to evolution'. You have not actually said what a young earth predicts, so there's no way for anyone to determine if it matches the data.
 
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Jimmy D

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although the design argument doesnt depend on the age of the earth, we still need to remember that the age of the earth is a belief rather then a fact. so here are 4 evidence for a young earth:

1) human population growth: according to evolution human population pass the 1 billion limit only in the last hundreds years (from the last 2-3 my years):

350px-Population_curve.svg.png


(image from Human overpopulation - Wikipedia)

so its should look like this:
View attachment 213601
is it a coincidence that the data fit well with a young earth prediction?

2) DNA from an old fossil. according to the scientific data DNA should not survive for more then about 10,000 years under an average temp (10-20c)(https://www.researchgate.net/publication/291781657_Biomolecules_in_fossil_remains (table1). so according to the scientific data we can predict that we will not find an old fossil (20my old) with DNA. but surprisingly we actually found such a fossil:

DNA sequences from Miocene fossils: an ndhF sequence of Magnolia latahensis (Magnoliaceae) and an rbcL sequence of Persea pseudocarolinensis (Lauraceae)

so again, is it a coincidence that the data fit well with a young earth prediction?:
View attachment 213602
the main objection to this finding is the claim about contamination. but not in this specific case:

"The possibility of contamination is extremely low because no PCR products were detected in any negative controls, and the laboratory at Washington State University in which DNA of M. latahensis was extracted, amplified, and sequenced never possessed samples of the four extant species of Magnolia that share an ndhF sequence with M. latahensis."

3) stalactite length. the average stalactite growth rate is about 1 cm per 100 years. so if the earth is indeed so young we expect to find that most stalactites (dont be confuse with stalagmites) should be no more then 50-100cm long. this is indeed what we find in most stalactites caves:
main-qimg-8b1945f873f8fa0dc7c5d30af01444d6-c

(image from https://www.quora.com/Why-do-stalac...n-occur-in-pairs-Is-such-occurrence-important)

the main objection to this claim is that those stalactites may fall apart every several thousands years. but if it was true then the floor should be full of stalactites chunks (about 100 stalactites in the floor for every single stalactite above in a 1my old cave). and as you can see in the image, this isnt what we find.

4) radiometric dating can be wrong up to 100000% from the real age. for instance: a living snail was date to about 27,000 years by c14:

Major carbon-14 deficiency in modern snail shells from southern nevada springs. - PubMed - NCBI

rhenium-osmium dating can be wrong up to billion fold from the real age under some conditions and so on:

Phys. Rev. Lett. 77, 5190 (1996) - Observation of Bound-State ${\mathit{\ensuremath{\beta}}}^{\ensuremath{-}}$ Decay of Fully Ionized ${}^{187}$Re: ${}^{187}$Re${\ensuremath{-}}^{187}$Os Cosmochronometry

the main objection is that usually those methods agree with each other. but how do we know they are correct if their error range is so huge? can we consider a method that can be wrong up to 1 billion fold to be a scientific method?


I had a quick look at those caves in your photos, the Luray Caverns.

Why are you measuring the age of the Earth from an assumed average age of the stalactites? Surely the earliest stalctites would be more appropriate? And surely the cave had to form first, and the sedimentary rock before that?


The formation of Luray Caverns began after the limestone of the Shenandoah Valley was formed as a result of the inland sea. The enclosing rocks consist of granular crystalline dolomite belonging to the lower part of the Beekmantown dolomite of Early Ordovician age. The entire cavern is confined to a zone only about 100 feet thick and occurred in coarse-grained crystalline dolomite.

The caverns contain no deposits that indicate the former presence of large flowing streams, and most of the cave deposits have been transported and deposited by very small discharges of water. Rain water picks up diluted carbonic acid when it seeps through decaying vegetation in the soil above the rock. The hollowing-out of a limestone cave begins as this acidified water percolated through the fissured limestone dissolving and eroding layers along the way. Water eventually fills all openings enlarging the existing crevices. Run-off soon descends into lower levels of the earth leaving huge limestone chambers.

GC25F5P Luray Caverns Earthcache (Earthcache) in Virginia, United States created by Pilotface

Or are you suggesting that the Earth was created with this layer of sedimentary rock and huge caves (which we know are formed over eons by slow erosion processes) already in place?

Oh, and one more thing....

Here's the same cave system, are these bad boys 50 - 100 cm long in your estimation?


332541.jpg


Dream-Lake-Home_large.jpg
 
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