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312 Azusa St

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onthenarrow

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In Teen Challenge I received the laying on of hands, the baptism of the Holy Spirit and subsequently speak in tongues.
I believe God still does that today, but I also believe there is alot of fakery, with people being manipulated into making sounds and calling it tongues. What was you experience of receiving this gift? To know where I'm coming from - I did used to be a 'tongue speaking charismatic', but became convinced that tongues are real languages divinely bestowed, not something we can be taught to do. However I still believe God gives the true gift of tongues. I believe Azusa was a departure from the original Pentecostal teaching of Charles Parham and others, who taught that tongues were real languages, whereas Azusa 'taught' people to speak in them.
 
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Frisbee

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I can only speak for myself, but I agree with you that people fake. I've been told as much straight up in fact.

I asked for the laying on heads pretty immaturely after I was saved. I say immaturely because it was an immature request. I was in an environment where the Holy Spirit was poured out and into the lives of addicts, homosexuals, murderers even who had turned to the Lord and became saved. Most of them had received the laying on hands and spoke in tongues or had another gift. I asked so often that I know I was annoying brother Al big time, and I honestly just stopped asking after a couple of months.

Al pulled me aside one day and told me that the Lord told him it was time. I had forgotten it more or less and asked him "time for what?", and he just brought me to a room with a wooden chair in the middle of the floor and asked me to sit in the chair. He stood behind and started praying with his hands about an inch above my hair (which was pretty long, it was the 70s) and I felt like my hair shot up to his hands kind of like really strong static electricity, but it only felt like that because it really wasn't sticking up. I know that sounds odd, but I'm trying my best to describe it. Brother Al kept praying normally and in tongues himself and I felt like I had to throw up but it wasn't unpleasant. It was like billions and billions of butterflies were flying around inside me and were trying to get out of my mouth, so like the clueless person that I was, I felt embarrassed kind of and tried to keep my mouth shut. I didn't know what was happening except that I was afraid of what would come out of my mouth. Finally I tried to tell him what I was feeling, but the second I opened my mouth up it was the most incredible thing I had ever experienced in my life. I was speaking in tongues in what I would describe as being higher than on any drug in the world, but perfectly sober, crystal clear in thought and mind in fact. That went on for about a half hour I guess, and after a while Al just stepped back and kept praying and praising God.

Afterwards he was laughing and said that the Lord told him two things. He was laughing, chuckling kind of, and said that I stutter in tongues (I really do too!) and that the Lord would someday do great things with me. I still don't know what that is, but God usually reveals Himself in things like that in ways you'd never see coming anyhow so I honestly don't focus on it. I believe it, but I have no idea what that meant.

Anyhow that's my story. There's a lot more to it, but that's the basics. I know what happened that day and nobody can convince me that it wasn't real or that it wasn't God. But I also realize that nobody has to believe it either. It really doesn't matter to me other than I've spent most of my life trying to figure it all out. I went on afterwards to become a green beret which was a tremendous personal achievement, but looking back at it, it also really stunted my spiritual growth for a long time. A lot of pride was involved and it took a very hard fall to break me of it and for me to begin to walk with God as I should have been all along.

I'll tell you what all that didn't mean though...

It didn't mean that I was or am better or more spiritual than anyone else. In fact I would characterize my walk as pathetic for most of my adult life. I definitely went Corinthian, just like the books! But I've also grown a lot too as I learned almost everything the hard way. Make that the hardest way! My best friend Christian (who I went through Special Forces training with and was on my first A-Team in Germany), was very skeptical of the gifts like many of the folks here, but he and I were alone and stuck with each other. We were pretty much completely stuck with each other because the rest of the team was a bunch of heathens to put it mildly, and in SF you deploy constantly. If you have fellowship at all it is with your team mates or not at all. Anyhow, he and I talked about this particular topic for years. And when I say years, I mean years in the plural, 6 to be exact.

We went through all the stages you could possibly imagine. We argued, differed in opinion, showed each other what the bible said from each other's point of view and finally settled on this...

The Holy Spirit is given at salvation. Period. The laying on of hands was an event afterwards and a blessing, but it didn't make me any more saved. The environment I was in was a place where God needed to work miracles in the broken lives of men who came from broken homes, the streets, prison, you name it. It was different is all. It really didn't matter when it's all said and done. In fact I would say hands down that Christian was the one who was blessed, not me. I struggled with a lot of areas of sin, carnality and I paid for wandering dearly. Chris on the other hand was obedient and faithful through and through and his life has big one huge blessing as a result. Anyhow, we grew out of it. We grew because we were forced to deal with our difference of opinion and work it out. In the end we found out that we had become life long friends and that the glue that bound was Jesus Christ.
 
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IamRedeemed

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While there are counterfeits as was prophesied there will be, false prophets, lying wonders, false signs etc., the fact that they do exist should serve to prove to the skeptic that the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are absolutely in operation today, otherwise there would be nothing real for the enemy to make a counterfeit of.
I don't know of people being "taught" to speak tongues, however are encouraged to release their faith. The very first sounds they utter, may actually be themselves as they activate their faith, (no different than the man physically dipping in the Jordan seven times activating his) but it was not the dipping that brought the miracle he received, as the Jordan river was nasty, if anything one might even have been able to get a disease from it much less get healed from it. But it was the activation of his faith that brought the deliverance from God's hand to his body. Once a person activates their faith by allowing their mouths to verbalize speech that is unknown to them, "foreign to them", as they are earnestly desiring for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, they do receive the gift and it is no longer them uttering, but the Holy Spirit.

This is not to say that there are not counterfeits as surely satan looks to counterfeit all things of God. Look how he has looked to counterfeit the family unit? His versions are always perverted though.
Such as the gold teeth, gold dust and the barking.God is a God of restoration. He is not a showman. He does not just perform miracles for the "awe" affect. God's miracles are for the changing of lives. Healing, creative miracles, deliverances. Barking has no purpose at all. In fact I would feel safe to say that if that is heard in a service, a deliverance is in order.

If God is going to restore a tooth, it will be a perfect tooth restored to its original form, when it was perfect. God has no reason to create the gold dust...there is nothing of profit, mind, heart, body, soul in that. Everything God does is with a purpose. That is why it is so important for people to know the Word and grow with God and know His character and know that He doesn't change in those things. This is one of the many ways to discern, that God has given us. It must align with the Word of God, the character of God revealed in His Word and align with the purposes of God. If they don't they are false signs, and lying wonders.


I believe God still does that today, but I also believe there is alot of fakery, with people being manipulated into making sounds and calling it tongues. What was you experience of receiving this gift? To know where I'm coming from - I did used to be a 'tongue speaking charismatic', but became convinced that tongues are real languages divinely bestowed, not something we can be taught to do. However I still believe God gives the true gift of tongues. I believe Azusa was a departure from the original Pentecostal teaching of Charles Parham and others, who taught that tongues were real languages, whereas Azusa 'taught' people to speak in them.
 
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IamRedeemed

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If you study the Word of God regarding the manifestation of this Gift you will find that it is manifest in THREE ways. What you refer to as "gibberish", is more than likely the prayer language which is not an earthly language but a heavenly language, and therefore IS NOT a language spoken by men on the earth, and is not meant to be used in a public or congregational manner as it is between God and the one whom the Holy Ghost is uttering through and only edifies that one, which is why Paul was correcting the Corinthian Church because they were doing with it, and it edified no one around them who were hearing as without the interpretation, it is nothing but "gibberish" as it was and is to you when you hear it, which is absolutely understandable and Scripturally logical for you to feel that way under that circumstance. Another manifestation is when the Apostle Peter spoke and everyone heard it in their own language, that is the manifestation known as "divers" or "diverse" tongues. And then there is a manifestation where the gift is used in combination with the gift of prophecy and the gift of interpretation.

So, study and check out what I said and you will see the above right there in the
Word of God in 1 Corinthians chapter 14.

God bless.


well we will disagree, but i believe tongues are real languages, divinely bestowed, and that most of what is called 'tongues' is gibberish.
 
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Frisbee

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All I can say is I know what happened, I know it was real, that was the Holy Spirit and there is biblical support for it. Anyone can pick anything apart, but I don't argue folks. I gave my personal testimony of what happened and keep my prayer language a prayer language and that's that. I can't speak for anyone else and never do. If someone is faking it, then they have God to deal with then I suppose. I look for the fruit of the Spirit in Christians, not their experiences. I shared that because someone asked, but I never push it on anyone. The only thing I present to people is Jesus Christ.

Besides for all I know it can be a language, I never tried to find out because it doesn't sound familiar to me. Maybe an African if anything, but how would a person know what language it is if they don't the language in the first place?
 
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