why are abusive people saved?
why "must" we forgive them?
can you be saved at the last minute?
why "must" we forgive them?
can you be saved at the last minute?
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
3 questions
- Thread starter 2seekhymn
- Start date
Here are my answers, which may be right or wrong. JMHO.
1. Why are abusive people saved? Because the Cross of Jesus Christ is open to all, bar none, who repent and ask His forgiveness. It's often the first Bible verse many of us learn: "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
2. Why "must" we forgive them? Because carrying around the burden of resentment harms us, not them. I've had to deal with forgiving an ex-sister-in-law that I haven't seen in years, not because it did her any good, but because my pure hatred of her was eating ME up and interfering with MY spiritual walk. I had to forgive her for my own benefit. She didn't care one way or another. In fact, had she known I was so full of bitterness, she would have enjoyed it.
3. Can you be saved at the last minute? The thief on the cross next to Jesus was. One Gospel tells us both thieves derided Him, and another tells us of the penitent thief's salvation. It could be that he had joined in the mocking at first but then thought better of it. At any rate, Jesus told him that he would be in Paradise. Jesus also told the parable of the eleventh-hour workers getting the same pay for working one hour that the earlier workers got for sweating out the entire day. So yes, I believe you can be saved at the last minute.
What I don't go for is counting on last minute repentance. In response to the question, "If you knew you had only a year to live, would you party it up or get right with your God?", one teenage boy said he would party it up for 364 days and then get right with God. That's not safe. The question said only a year, nothing more, but what if the partying-it-up causes an even earlier, unexpected death?
Okay, I'm off my soap box now.
I sense from your questions that you are hurting from your abuse and want justice. I don't blame you. God bless.
1. Why are abusive people saved? Because the Cross of Jesus Christ is open to all, bar none, who repent and ask His forgiveness. It's often the first Bible verse many of us learn: "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
2. Why "must" we forgive them? Because carrying around the burden of resentment harms us, not them. I've had to deal with forgiving an ex-sister-in-law that I haven't seen in years, not because it did her any good, but because my pure hatred of her was eating ME up and interfering with MY spiritual walk. I had to forgive her for my own benefit. She didn't care one way or another. In fact, had she known I was so full of bitterness, she would have enjoyed it.
3. Can you be saved at the last minute? The thief on the cross next to Jesus was. One Gospel tells us both thieves derided Him, and another tells us of the penitent thief's salvation. It could be that he had joined in the mocking at first but then thought better of it. At any rate, Jesus told him that he would be in Paradise. Jesus also told the parable of the eleventh-hour workers getting the same pay for working one hour that the earlier workers got for sweating out the entire day. So yes, I believe you can be saved at the last minute.
What I don't go for is counting on last minute repentance. In response to the question, "If you knew you had only a year to live, would you party it up or get right with your God?", one teenage boy said he would party it up for 364 days and then get right with God. That's not safe. The question said only a year, nothing more, but what if the partying-it-up causes an even earlier, unexpected death?
Okay, I'm off my soap box now.
I sense from your questions that you are hurting from your abuse and want justice. I don't blame you. God bless.
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invisiblebabe
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Jesus did state that to some people who were Christians at least in the belief/intellectual sense, He will one day say, "I never even knew you." I believe that abusive people who do not ever repent fall into this category. Notice the bolded words.
I also think we can forgive them while simultaneously praying they reap what they sow, so they realize their actions are leading to destruction. Then, they may repent and thus find themselves closer to God.
I also think we can forgive them while simultaneously praying they reap what they sow, so they realize their actions are leading to destruction. Then, they may repent and thus find themselves closer to God.
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nowhereville
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why are abusive people saved?
God's desire is that none would perish - and God doesn't grade sins - we do. A lie is the same in his eyes as rape or murder.
why "must" we forgive them?
It's not a must towards them it is a must FOR us. Forgiveness, deserved or not is a gift God gives to us. When we are angry, bitter and unforgiving, we are hurting ourselves. Often times the offender who has hurt us does not consider what they have done anywhere near what we have, but we carry it around with us everyday. Forgiveness seems so unfair to us, but that is a lie of the enemy.
can you be saved at the last minute? Yes
If you are struggling with forgivenss consider I believe it is Psalm 73 - it talks extensively about what it is like to stand before God without salvation and it's prett intense. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
I used the psalm to forgive the person who murdered my Father and it was pivotal in helping me to see the bigger picture.
God's desire is that none would perish - and God doesn't grade sins - we do. A lie is the same in his eyes as rape or murder.
why "must" we forgive them?
It's not a must towards them it is a must FOR us. Forgiveness, deserved or not is a gift God gives to us. When we are angry, bitter and unforgiving, we are hurting ourselves. Often times the offender who has hurt us does not consider what they have done anywhere near what we have, but we carry it around with us everyday. Forgiveness seems so unfair to us, but that is a lie of the enemy.
can you be saved at the last minute? Yes
If you are struggling with forgivenss consider I believe it is Psalm 73 - it talks extensively about what it is like to stand before God without salvation and it's prett intense. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
I used the psalm to forgive the person who murdered my Father and it was pivotal in helping me to see the bigger picture.
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NoddaProbBob
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NoddaProbBob
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I know what it all means, and understand it, I meant that Im having trouble with the forgiving part...
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NoddaProbBob said:
Join the club!! I believe that a lot of us that have been the victims/survivors of abuse have this problem. Forgiveness isn't easy. It's hard not to hold any hard feelings about those that have hurt us. Boy do I understand the not being able to forgive part....
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nowhereville
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s_gunter said:
This is the biggest lie Satan EVER told - forgiveness is NOT a feeling - it is a decision - it literally means to scratch off a debt. If someone hurts you - they "owe" you something - when you choose to forgive by the confession of your mouth you are saying, I release you from repaying me the damages you have caused. It's NOT saying, "Hey guess what I dont' hate you anymore, here come on in my life again.".
It's a decision, not a feeling - though if your confession IS that you choose to forgive, your feelings will eventually line up with the words coming out of your mouth.
Forgiveness is a gift we give ourselves, not something we give our offenders. Say we are walking down the same street and we are strangers. I reach out and punch you as hard as I can. Chances are if I am somone who would actually DO that, I would probably not think twice about that incident other then to laugh every now and again. You however would think about it - probably a lot - why would I do that? How could I do that etc...
Now who is carrying that around everywhere they go? You - Me? i could care less.
Okay for the record, I would not do that - it's only to prove a point.
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nowhereville, you and I are pretty much on the same page....
I still bristle with resentment when I think of my ex-sister-in-law and the things she did to actively break up that marriage. Going into very much detail would only dredge up the resentments again, but when I find myself thinking about her, I try to remind myself that I never have to have contact with her again.
I'm in the same boat with my father, who was mentally ill and violent, more than once threatening to kill the entire family along with himself. My biggest problem lies in the similarities I have with him. I don't want *any* part of him, even the good and neutral parts. But then I need to remind myself that he also is out of my life. I've had zero contact with him since my teenage years. And as for having things in common with him, I might have those same traits in common with a perfect stranger. Forgiving him does not excuse the violence, but it does save me from feeling self-contempt when I do or say something he might have done or said.
I still bristle with resentment when I think of my ex-sister-in-law and the things she did to actively break up that marriage. Going into very much detail would only dredge up the resentments again, but when I find myself thinking about her, I try to remind myself that I never have to have contact with her again.
I'm in the same boat with my father, who was mentally ill and violent, more than once threatening to kill the entire family along with himself. My biggest problem lies in the similarities I have with him. I don't want *any* part of him, even the good and neutral parts. But then I need to remind myself that he also is out of my life. I've had zero contact with him since my teenage years. And as for having things in common with him, I might have those same traits in common with a perfect stranger. Forgiving him does not excuse the violence, but it does save me from feeling self-contempt when I do or say something he might have done or said.
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nowhereville said:
I actually agree with you, I just didn't do a good job of explaining it above. By "hard feelings," I did mean hard not to believe that the one that hurt me doesn't owe me anything, in effect scratching off the debt.
I also believe that forgiveness involves more than that. I do believe that there are some feelings behind it too. Part of it does include the release of the hatred you feel about that person. Lose the hatred you feel, "scratching off the debt" comes next.
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2seekhymn said:
1. Anyone who accepts Jesus as their Savior and repents is saved.
2. Forgiving people is the best way to heal, it is a great stepping stone to forgiving ourselves and that is hard to do but is worth it. I know, I did it.
3. Anyone who repents even a moment before death, thereby accepting Jesus, is saved.
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nowhereville
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My hatred is most often released from my me when I choose to forgive, it's not typically something I have to lay down - it just goes when I choose to forgive. Knowing that everyone's walk with God is different I refrained from sharing that because I did not want to appear to be judging others - you know that kind of statement, "Oh well if you REALLY forgave you wouldn't feel that way" I hate it when people do that 
In regard to being/appearing like your abuser, I've seen that twice now on these boards - I never really considered that because all of my anger was focused on my mother and I swore I'd never be like her.
Recently, after a ten year back slide from God - I got woudned and more wounded and then choose to stay wounded, my bad, I'm back in all God's glory. I've come to a deeper realization that I AM wonderfully and fearfully made IN the image of God, that all man meant for evil God has used for good. I will NEVER be ashamed of who I am for God has made me who I am - I will not exalt my sin or those who have sinned against me - I will glorify God. I may not be like everyone else - but I remain fearfully and wonderfully made period.
Just some food for thought Woooo Hoooo
In regard to being/appearing like your abuser, I've seen that twice now on these boards - I never really considered that because all of my anger was focused on my mother and I swore I'd never be like her.
Recently, after a ten year back slide from God - I got woudned and more wounded and then choose to stay wounded, my bad, I'm back in all God's glory. I've come to a deeper realization that I AM wonderfully and fearfully made IN the image of God, that all man meant for evil God has used for good. I will NEVER be ashamed of who I am for God has made me who I am - I will not exalt my sin or those who have sinned against me - I will glorify God. I may not be like everyone else - but I remain fearfully and wonderfully made period.
Just some food for thought
Woooo Hoooo
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