3 Gods in 1?

[willbill]

Hello mate.
My name's William, and I struggle dearly with what is referred to as the Trinity - the Tri-Unity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I turned my back on God for roughly a year due to the confusion which originated from this.

The question of "Is Jesus God?" and, "If so, was/is He YHWH from the beginning?" And the Holy Spirit, I just recently been identify Him as a separate Entity; before, the 'Holy Spirit' was just that: the Spirit which is holy, God. But to my realization, He is separate of God YHWH. What it all truly boils down to for me is this: Is Jesus Christ God? The God of the "Old" Testament, the God who sat in the Temple when Solomon had one built. They say, "Jesus is the Son of God," but God does not reproduce in the sense that He had a wife and Jesus is His Son as I am with my own dad. It's metaphorical, right? All of this troubled me SO much that I almost gave up it all - not out of disbelief, but confusion. I thought I wasn't fit, I wasn't one with understanding, for I didn't even know MY OWN GOD. Jesus? YHWH? Simply 'God'? Till this day, I'm still not sure. Who do I pray to? Jesus says, "In the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." Okay, in the Name? Like literal Name(s)? In the Name of Jesus who is all three? In Their Name, but to Who? "God"? Thor? No. Who is God, and what is His Name?

 

[faroukfarouk]

Hi; good to see you on the forums; God bless His Word to you.

The Three Persons of the Godhead: Father, Son and Holy Spirit, are clearly seen in many passages of the Bible, including the end of Matthew 28, John chapters 13 thru 17, Romans 8, John's First Epistle, etc.

 

[God's Child]

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[1watchman]

"There is one God and one mediator between God and mankind --the Man, Christ Jesus", as God tells us (1 Tim. 2:5). See also John 14:7-11 for understanding! We find our all in Jesus, the Christ of God. We might say: the Creator-God is like unto the spirit of a man, and the Holy Spirit is like unto the mind of a man, and the Lord Jesus is as the body of a man. Together God is the whole Person of the trinity. I hope this helps some. Just remember that faith in the Lord Jesus is our only salvation, for if one does not have Him in our heart one will have no part in God ---for He is the source of eternal life and blessing. Read the New Testament daily!

 

[Merlin]

Hello mate.
My name's William, and I struggle dearly with what is referred to as the Trinity - the Tri-Unity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I turned my back on God for roughly a year due to the confusion which originated from this.

The question of "Is Jesus God?" and, "If so, was/is He YHWH from the beginning?" And the Holy Spirit, I just recently been identify Him as a separate Entity; before, the 'Holy Spirit' was just that: the Spirit which is holy, God. But to my realization, He is separate of God YHWH. What it all truly boils down to for me is this: Is Jesus Christ God? The God of the "Old" Testament, the God who sat in the Temple when Solomon had one built. They say, "Jesus is the Son of God," but God does not reproduce in the sense that He had a wife and Jesus is His Son as I am with my own dad. It's metaphorical, right? All of this troubled me SO much that I almost gave up it all - not out of disbelief, but confusion. I thought I wasn't fit, I wasn't one with understanding, for I didn't even know MY OWN GOD. Jesus? YHWH? Simply 'God'? Till this day, I'm still not sure. Who do I pray to? Jesus says, "In the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." Okay, in the Name? Like literal Name(s)? In the Name of Jesus who is all three? In Their Name, but to Who? "God"? Thor? No. Who is God, and what is His Name?

This is a difficult question which has puzzled mankind for centuries.
GOD is referred to as a triune being because we humans do not understand fully how this is, so the term used is trinity.
The concept name refers to a character. So when we pray in the name of Jesus we are being told to pray in the character or likeness of Jesus. The name YHWH means "He exists". When Moses asked who shall I say is sending me? God answered and said to say he exists [YHWH] is sending u. YHWH is the God we know in the old testament. We are introduced to His having a son but not much else.
Later, we are given what is known as the new testament and introduced to God's son who we call Jesus. Jesus is a word which means 'salvation'
It is as though a part of God separated out and became encased in a humanoid body and then came to live with us.
That part of God which took on the human body is known as Jesus.
The third part of what we call the trinity is the holy spirit.
That seems to be a source of God's power that God has given to us.

 

[Steeno7]

Hello mate.
My name's William, and I struggle dearly with what is referred to as the Trinity - the Tri-Unity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I turned my back on God for roughly a year due to the confusion which originated from this.

The question of "Is Jesus God?" and, "If so, was/is He YHWH from the beginning?" And the Holy Spirit, I just recently been identify Him as a separate Entity; before, the 'Holy Spirit' was just that: the Spirit which is holy, God. But to my realization, He is separate of God YHWH. What it all truly boils down to for me is this: Is Jesus Christ God? The God of the "Old" Testament, the God who sat in the Temple when Solomon had one built. They say, "Jesus is the Son of God," but God does not reproduce in the sense that He had a wife and Jesus is His Son as I am with my own dad. It's metaphorical, right? All of this troubled me SO much that I almost gave up it all - not out of disbelief, but confusion. I thought I wasn't fit, I wasn't one with understanding, for I didn't even know MY OWN GOD. Jesus? YHWH? Simply 'God'? Till this day, I'm still not sure. Who do I pray to? Jesus says, "In the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." Okay, in the Name? Like literal Name(s)? In the Name of Jesus who is all three? In Their Name, but to Who? "God"? Thor? No. Who is God, and what is His Name?

Not three Gods in one. One God in three Persons.

There is One true and living God - indivisible, infinite; co-eternal, co-equal, and co-existing in three Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Each possess the same essence and attributes of deity; deserving our obedience and reverence. However, the Father is not the Spirit; the Spirit is not the Son; and the Son is not the Father.

 

[Free at Calvary]

I don't want to break the rules of the forum but Trinity confuses me too. However because it's man's description it's not a source of doubt for me.

I'm not a Trinity expert but it seems to define God by his person, rather than by his power, or position, or throne, or dominion. I agree God is a person, but it's not his person which makes him God, it's his power. And because the Son and the Spirit have the same person of God, Trinity calls them God, identifying them as first, second and third person of the godhead.

I expect God will correct me about any false beliefs, but I appreciate anything my Trinitarian sisters and brothers have to say.

 

[Steeno7]

I don't want to break the rules of the forum but Trinity confuses me too. However because it's man's description it's not a source of doubt for me.

I'm not a Trinity expert but it seems to define God by his person, rather than by his power, or position, or throne, or dominion. I agree God is a person, but it's not his person which makes him God, it's his power. And because the Son and the Spirit have the same person of God, Trinity calls them God, identifying them as first, second and third person of the godhead.

I expect God will correct me about any false beliefs, but I appreciate anything my Trinitarian sisters and brothers have to say.

If you are going to try to understand the doctrine of the Trinity, then you need to know what it actually is, not just your best guess at what it is.

 

[adhidarmawijaya]

Hello mate.
My name's William, and I struggle dearly with what is referred to as the Trinity - the Tri-Unity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I turned my back on God for roughly a year due to the confusion which originated from this.

The question of "Is Jesus God?" and, "If so, was/is He YHWH from the beginning?" And the Holy Spirit, I just recently been identify Him as a separate Entity; before, the 'Holy Spirit' was just that: the Spirit which is holy, God. But to my realization, He is separate of God YHWH. What it all truly boils down to for me is this: Is Jesus Christ God? The God of the "Old" Testament, the God who sat in the Temple when Solomon had one built. They say, "Jesus is the Son of God," but God does not reproduce in the sense that He had a wife and Jesus is His Son as I am with my own dad. It's metaphorical, right? All of this troubled me SO much that I almost gave up it all - not out of disbelief, but confusion. I thought I wasn't fit, I wasn't one with understanding, for I didn't even know MY OWN GOD. Jesus? YHWH? Simply 'God'? Till this day, I'm still not sure. Who do I pray to? Jesus says, "In the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." Okay, in the Name? Like literal Name(s)? In the Name of Jesus who is all three? In Their Name, but to Who? "God"? Thor? No. Who is God, and what is His Name?

The quote below can explain you , if there is any question further , i willing to ad .

In christianity admits that salvation is only by grace.
It means no one will be saved by their own effort, what ever it sound worthy ( Eph2:8), unless he or she is bestowed by Him, this is the core of the Gospel , where from understand it well finally men can glorify God ( the purpose of creation ).
To simplify understanding " salvation is only by grace ", we can imagine that all men are corpses before God, their only certainty is decaying by time ( smelling evil/ sinning ), their will is only negative will/opposing God (Rom3:10-12) , these corpses will never know : what is salvation and what's for ?, what is "glorifying God" meant and how ? unless they enter the purification process and come out as the winner (Rev3:5-6), understand (Mat13:23).
The words actually had already said it well in OT Gen2:17 ,so just only to prevent men for not eating the fruit of the tree of life intentionally Adam and Eve must be driven out from Eden it also indicates that there is no capability within humen to fulfill even His simplest law / men = corpses.
Unfortunately out side Eden no one admit this reality even being given hundreds of years for them verifying their dead before God, even God gave them hundreds of laws (torah laws) as the standard, they don not realize any yet indicated : they persistently enthusiastic fulfilling the laws , funny does not it ? .
With a veri simple logic we can say that "not eating the fruit of the tree of life " is the simpler than "fulfilling hundreds of laws" , if the simpler one they can not fulfill how can they feel they still can fulfill the more difficult one ? .

But that is the reality, until their time for verification their dead is over , so God should open up their eyes by manifesting His Grace ( this manifestation only God Himself could do ) by making Him to be the Messiah to manifest His Grace.


In OT has been clarified already that : some one purified by:the priest spatters the blood of sacrificed lamb to him = saved from dead ,but this is only allegoric (Isa 43:11 ; 45:21 ;49:26 ;60:16) , also saved = being risen from dead .
These messages should be explained by the Messiah in the manifestation of God's Grace.
These messages say : " Hi men you shall never earn your salvation by your own efforts as good as what ever it be , unless it is bestowed to you by God (Eph2:8), this grace I'm going to demonstrate for you (1Pet1:5), I will be crucified and then 3 days later I will rise from dead, that is the manifestation of the God grace, in this event the blood of the lamb = my blood = God blood, the priest = Me = manifestation of God(Rev5:9), the one who is purified will be acted by Me = God's chosen one ( not depend on men will but His will/names He planned before the foundation of the world/names listed in the book of life before the foundation of the world ) when you see these events come to pass , you see that is the grace of God , that same grace will be bestowed to you that believe me ( believe if that event is manifestation of God grace ), you that believe me is the winner / the saved (Rev3:5-6), but you that don not believe me you are the loser, cause you will say I am not God and you will consider me as human being like you (created being) so I am also spiritually dead before God (as corpse) it means this is not the manifestation of God Grace (there is no premise salvation is only by grace ) because I have to earn my salvation by my own effort through this event and it also means every men shall pay their sins through their own work, so why can not you fulfill the torah laws ?, why should I being said as redeemer (Eph1:7)?, why should I being said as savior (Lk2:11) who are redeemed by Me?, who are saved by Me ?, you (who don not believe ) are the loser in your existence you are flowing to eternal dead" .

 

[com7fy8]

God is good > Jesus says, "No one is good but One, that is, God." (in Luke 18:19) So, this is a basic for you to feed on, in order to understand the Trinity. God is good, the only One who is good.

And John says "God is love," in 1 John 4:8&16. So, God Himself is all that real love is.

So, if you want to have all that is good and truly love, only God can be all that is real goodness and love, for you. If you go after anything less than God, and seek it to get what is good, you will be finding more and more trouble and frustration. And, likewise, if you go after anyone who is less than God, in order to get love and use that person for what you want, you can get consequences of deep suffering and frustration and getting hurt and bitter and things being "hard".

But Jesus knows how people have so fooled themselves; He knows how we have deeply suffered because we have trusted and depended on less than God; so Jesus calls to "all", with hope for "all" to have "rest for your souls" >

"'Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.'" (Matthew 11:28-30)

So, Jesus Himself says He is the One to seek, in order to learn and to have rest for our souls. So, this is what is Biblically meant by Jesus being "God". Calling Him "God" needs to be not only putting the right label on Him, but we need to trust and depend on Jesus.

And our Father brings a sinner to Jesus > read and feed on John 6:44-45. Our Heavenly Father could do the whole thing, Himself, to save us and change us how we need to be corrected and changed in His love; but our Father brings each sinner to Jesus. So, this is included in what is meant by Jesus being "God".

"'For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.'" (John 5:22-23)

So, Jesus will judge. And ones say that only God can judge anyone. So, you can consider what is involved, if Jesus is going to the be our Judge! This is included in what we mean by saying Jesus is "God".

 

[Xalith]

@willbill :

Since nobody else mentioned it that I can see... about Prayer:

gotquestions.org says this:

Perhaps the best way to understand the role of the Trinity in prayer is that we pray to the Father, through (or in the name of) the Son, by the power of the Holy Spirit. All three are active participants in the believer’s prayer.

(taken from http://www.gotquestions.org/pray-Father-Son-Spirit.html)

I think that pretty much sums up the OP's questions about prayer. We are to pray to God the Father, in the name of God the Son (or Jesus) by the power of the Holy Spirit that dwells within us.

Now since there is only one God, and that all three members of the Trinity are a part of this one God, I'm pretty sure that one could pray to either Jesus or God the Father as they are both part of the same.

Jesus Himself said in John 8:58 "Before Abraham was, I am" (emphasis mine). Note the bolded part; the term "I am" was used by God at the Burning Bush when He was talking to Moses in Exodus 3:14.

This, along with many other things our Lord has said, makes it clear that Jesus is God in the flesh.

EDIT: I would also add that in Genesis 1:26, He refers to Himself with a plural pronoun. I'm pretty sure this was quite intentional. Note that Genesis was written before Jesus came (it was part of the Torah), so the Holy Spirit obviously moved Moses to write that verse from Genesis in this way.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I don't want to break the rules of the forum but Trinity confuses me too. However because it's man's description it's not a source of doubt for me.

I'm not a Trinity expert but it seems to define God by his person, rather than by his power, or position, or throne, or dominion. I agree God is a person, but it's not his person which makes him God, it's his power. And because the Son and the Spirit have the same person of God, Trinity calls them God, identifying them as first, second and third person of the godhead.

I expect God will correct me about any false beliefs, but I appreciate anything my Trinitarian sisters and brothers have to say.

Why does the Trinity seem to define God by His person?

Is God the Father less powerful if their is also the Son of God and the Holy Spirit? Is the position of any or all lessened by their being more than one? Is their dominion not all that there is, will ever be created and will ever exist?

It is our way of looking at the things you have mentioned through our sinful eyes that makes it hard to understand.

 

[thesunisout]

Hello mate.
My name's William, and I struggle dearly with what is referred to as the Trinity - the Tri-Unity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I turned my back on God for roughly a year due to the confusion which originated from this.

The question of "Is Jesus God?" and, "If so, was/is He YHWH from the beginning?" And the Holy Spirit, I just recently been identify Him as a separate Entity; before, the 'Holy Spirit' was just that: the Spirit which is holy, God. But to my realization, He is separate of God YHWH. What it all truly boils down to for me is this: Is Jesus Christ God? The God of the "Old" Testament, the God who sat in the Temple when Solomon had one built. They say, "Jesus is the Son of God," but God does not reproduce in the sense that He had a wife and Jesus is His Son as I am with my own dad. It's metaphorical, right? All of this troubled me SO much that I almost gave up it all - not out of disbelief, but confusion. I thought I wasn't fit, I wasn't one with understanding, for I didn't even know MY OWN GOD. Jesus? YHWH? Simply 'God'? Till this day, I'm still not sure. Who do I pray to? Jesus says, "In the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." Okay, in the Name? Like literal Name(s)? In the Name of Jesus who is all three? In Their Name, but to Who? "God"? Thor? No. Who is God, and what is His Name?

Hi willbill,

I understand your confusion about the Trinity. There is probably more confusion about the Trinity, amongst unbelievers and Christians alike, than almost any doctrine. The doctrine of the Trinity is based upon the clear testimony of scripture about the personhood and divinity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. All three are described in scripture as being eternal, omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. For example, here are scriptures speaking about the omniscience of the members of the Trinity:

Omniscience of the Holy Spirit

1 Corinthians 2:10 But God has revealed them to us by His Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, yea, the deep things of God.

1 Corinthians 2:11 For who among men knows the things of a man except the spirit of man within him? So also no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.

Omniscience of the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ

Col 2:2 that their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and to all riches of the full assurance of the understanding, to the full knowledge of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

Col 2:3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

So, if only God is omniscient, and if the Father is omniscient, the Son is omniscient, and the Holy Spirit is omniscient, what does that tell you? It tells me they are all God. Not separate deities, but together as 3 divine persons they constitute the One true God. We can see in John 17 that the Father and the Son are one with one another, and elsewhere that the Holy Spirit is one with both the Father and the Son. Therefore we can understand that they have a complex unity, wherein they are all one yet retain their personhood. The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father but they are both God.

To understand the basis for the Trinity you should study the scriptures which point to the divine nature of the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Study the scriptures which point to their omniscience, their omnipotence, and their omnipresence. Once you have established the divinity of both the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit, the doctrine of the Trinity is the inescapable conclusion. We don't have to understand exactly how it works, but we do have a good foundation in scripture for believing it is the truth.

There are many truths we cannot understand about God, for instance, His eternity. Because we don't exactly understand it doesn't negate the truth of His eternity. We believe He is eternal because it is well established in scripture, not because we completely understand it. We believe in the Trinity for the same reasons, not because we can completely understand it, but because it is well established in scripture.

Here are some resources to help:

http://biblehub.com/library/torrey/...f_the_holy_spirit/chapter_ii_the_deity_of.htm

http://biblehub.com/library/evans/the_great_doctrines_of_the_bible/the_doctrine_of_jesus_christ.htm

https://carm.org/cut-trinity

http://www.openbible.info/topics/the_trinity

 

[miamited]

Hi willbill,

Well, if it's any help, here's how I understand the three involved in God's plan upon the earth.

There is God. The Creator of all that is. Nothing has been made that wasn't made by God. Yes, man fashions what God has made into a myriad of different things, but everything, absolutely everything upon the earth or in the earth is a product of what God has made. God made and spread out the entire universe of stars, asteroids, planets, moons, etc.

There is Jesus. He is God's Son. God is his Father. God calls him His Son several times and Jesus always referred to God as his Father. At one point, God referred to Jesus as His servant.

There is the Holy Spirit. He is the Spirit of the living God and it is he that joins us all together.

That's my understanding and I try not to go beyond what the Scriptures say about the three. Yes, they are all divine because they all emanate and have their source as God, the Father. I agree that trying to understand the trinity of God's being can be difficult to comprehend. But, I also believe that one can keep the commands to love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and to love others as yourself and understand the purpose of Jesus death and our need for a Savior and be born again without going beyond that understanding.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[dayhiker]

Hi willbill,
Welcome to CF. Hope you stay around.

I'd say this is one of the things that happens to us when we try to understand an infinite God. If it isn't the trinity, it would be some other aspect of God that we don't understand. I say keep it simple and enjoy your relationship with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. let the theologians try to find finite words that can explain the infinite!

 

[willbill]

Wow glad to see so many different points being shown here! I guess the real confusion comes from the word "God" - what is God? The Christian definition seems to be the most distinct from other definitions; there can be three persons in one God. I believe what makes the Trinity hard to comprehend is due to its authenticity, that no other "god(s)" have claimed such a nature. I love GotQuestions.Org: "We pray to the Father, in the Name of the Son, by the power of the Holy Spirit."

 

[Job8]

God is the TRIUNE GODHEAD:
God the Father
God the Son (the Word)
God the Holy Spirit

We come to the Father through the Son and by the Holy Spirit

 

[adhidarmawijaya]

Wow glad to see so many different points being shown here! I guess the real confusion comes from the word "God" - what is God? The Christian definition seems to be the most distinct from other definitions; there can be three persons in one God. I believe what makes the Trinity hard to comprehend is due to its authenticity, that no other "god(s)" have claimed such a nature. I love GotQuestions.Org: "We pray to the Father, in the Name of the Son, by the power of the Holy Spirit."

When God changed Him self to be the Messiah, to be Holly spirit merely for our sake (in order we can understand "How and What the God's Grace is" ,from where we finally can glorify Him ).
He is the Alpha and Omega means every things those are exist should be created by Him, we can grasp that before He creates the men there should be only Him as the only God .

 

[FlyingTurtle]

Interesting question. Before I answer it as best I can, I want to point your attention to something. In the OT, the Angel of the LORD would often come and speak to people as if the Angel were God Himself. Indeed, some in the OT were afraid they would die once they saw the Angel, saying "how can we see God and live?" So we have an angel messenger who comes from God, refers to himself as God often (like to Abraham after he bound Isaac). Maybe this was Jesus? And the burning bush that said to Moses "I AM THAT I AM" was the Angel of the LORD. And when the pharisees said to Jesus "you are not even 50 years old and you have seen Abraham?" Jesus said "before Abraham was, I AM". So yes, there is considerable overlap between Jesus and YHWH. Because they are both One and distinct.

As to answer your question, the Bible says that the Word is sharper than any two edged sword, piercing the division of soul and spirit. Soul and spirit are different yet intertwined things then, if they can be separated by the Word. So we humans are three parts in one, body, soul, and spirit. Yet we do not doubt that our body, our soul, or our spirit is any less part of who we are. So if even we can exist as a 3 in 1, why cannot God, who is infinitely above our ways and thoughts?

 

[FlyingTurtle]

As to your other points, who to pray to, Jesus always prayed to the Father. If praying to the Father was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me as far as I'm concerned. Pray to tell Father in the name of Jesus, by the authority that the Holy Spirit gave you to approach the Father with your prayers.

As for who was the God of the OT, was it the Father, the Son, or the Spirit... think of it this way. When you speak to someone, you don't sk if you are speaking to their body, their soul, or their spirit. You are speaking to that person. So it was God who interacted with the world in the OT.

As for how can God be His own Father... Jesus existed from the beginning as the Word of God. He is the Son because He proceeds from the Father. Not because He was born (though He was born once).