3 former leaders of ex-gay ministry apologize

[plmarquette]

The problem with your claims is that homosexuality can't in the least be compared to alcoholism. They are completely separate issues, and homosexuality is not an addiction.

how then , in a sensitive matter , do you convey to some one who is a "heterosexual" what being a "homosexual" is like ...?

what has been posted several times and ways , is a "homily" an effort to understand , to relate , to explain our perception from the other side of the fence , so to speak .

Paul , the apostle lumped ... gambling , adultery, fornication , anger & wrath , and sexual orientation all together in the same sentence , as a type of "obsessive compulsive " behavior ... not me ...

it is the perception that if God can deliver you from gambling , adultery , fornication , etc. , should He not be able to deliver you from ....

 

[Loundry]

how then , in a sensitive matter , do you convey to some one who is a "heterosexual" what being a "homosexual" is like ...?

Do you really want to know, or are you just being patronizing? I honestly think it would be refreshing if a Christian was actually curious about what being gay was like instead of the callous dismissal as if it were just another "hitting rock bottom" kind of thing.

what has been posted several times and ways , is a "homily" an effort to understand , to relate , to explain our perception from the other side of the fence , so to speak .

We've heard it before, and, quite frankly, it's getting old. Maybe it's time for you to stop "relating" and start listening.

it is the perception that if God can deliver you from gambling , adultery , fornication , etc. , should He not be able to deliver you from ....

Being gay isn't like those things. Besides, what's so bad about any of those things? Christians do them all the time, so I'm doubting that your god actually "delivers" people from those "sins". I see lots of Christians who fail to be delivered from the sin of gluttony. Lots and lots of chubby Christians in churches...

 

[fanatiquefou]

how then , in a sensitive matter , do you convey to some one who is a "heterosexual" what being a "homosexual" is like ...?

I don't know - why don't you try TALKING to some gays and lesbians and hear it from them in their own words?

 

[wmc1982]

http://houston.craigslist.org/rnr/362876661.html

 

[WatersMoon110]

Being gay is not like substance abuse. There is no abuse of anything; we are just different in one particular way from heterosexuals. Being gay is more like being left-handed. Left-handed people are not addicted to writing with their left hand. That's just how they express who they are, how they naturally write or eat. Someone can choose to try to write with their right hand even if they are left-handed, but it will go against their nature. Someone else can come along and teach left-handed people to write with their right hand and say, "We are just giving them options." But why try to teach someone to write with their right hand when their nature is to be left-handed? Why not just accept them as they are, which is left-handed?

Have you seen the new(ish) studies on homosexuality and finger length? Only somewhat relevant, but your "left-handed" comment reminded me.

 

[Ohioprof]

how then , in a sensitive matter , do you convey to some one who is a "heterosexual" what being a "homosexual" is like ...?

what has been posted several times and ways , is a "homily" an effort to understand , to relate , to explain our perception from the other side of the fence , so to speak .

Paul , the apostle lumped ... gambling , adultery, fornication , anger & wrath , and sexual orientation all together in the same sentence , as a type of "obsessive compulsive " behavior ... not me ...

it is the perception that if God can deliver you from gambling , adultery , fornication , etc. , should He not be able to deliver you from ....

I think Paul was wrong about that. Just because someone is called an apostle doesn't mean they are always right.

I don't want to be delivered from who I am. I like who I am. There are too many problems in the world for people to waste time trying to change gay people into heterosexuals. There is no reason to try to do that. Let's work on real problems, like poverty and discrimination and global warming.

 

[Loundry]

Let's work on real problems, like poverty and discrimination and global warming.

Knock yourself out, but leave me out of it. And don't try to "solve" those "problems" with my tax dollars, either.

 

[fanatiquefou]

Knock yourself out, but leave me out of it. And don't try to "solve" those "problems" with my tax dollars, either.

Wait, so things like poverty, global warming, and discrimination are not real problems, but "problems" with scare quotes? What?

 

[Mumei]

... Maybe he just got overzealous with the scare quotes?

 

[wblastyn]

Knock yourself out, but leave me out of it. And don't try to "solve" those "problems" with my tax dollars, either.

Why so angry?

 

[ottaia]

how then , in a sensitive matter , do you convey to some one who is a "heterosexual" what being a "homosexual" is like ...?

what has been posted several times and ways , is a "homily" an effort to understand , to relate , to explain our perception from the other side of the fence , so to speak .

Paul , the apostle lumped ... gambling , adultery, fornication , anger & wrath , and sexual orientation all together in the same sentence , as a type of "obsessive compulsive " behavior ... not me ...[emphasis added]

it is the perception that if God can deliver you from gambling , adultery , fornication , etc. , should He not be able to deliver you from ....

Paul didn't talk about sexual orientation. That concept would have been foreign to him.

 

[wmc1982]

I say let the gays do what they want. I doubt they will take over the world or and force our children into homosexuality or anything. People shouldn't feel threatened by people who are different than them.

As a Christian, I have beliefs. I don't expect others to have the same beliefs. I am just supposed to do what I believe is right and let Christ's light shine through me. I can't force anyone to do or believe anything. I love homo's and non-homo's the same, just like Jesus did.

 

[Ohioprof]

I say let the gays do what they want. I doubt they will take over the world or and force our children into homosexuality or anything. People shouldn't feel threatened by people who are different than them.

As a Christian, I have beliefs. I don't expect others to have the same beliefs. I am just supposed to do what I believe is right and let Christ's light shine through me. I can't force anyone to do or believe anything. I love homo's and non-homo's the same, just like Jesus did.

That sounds good to me.

 

[Ohioprof]

Knock yourself out, but leave me out of it. And don't try to "solve" those "problems" with my tax dollars, either.

Well, I wasn't planning on using your tax dollars, but just in case I forget and slip up, I'll write that down. "Use NONE of Loundry's tax money!"

There. Your tax dollars are now safe.

 

[ottaia]

Well, I wasn't planning on using your tax dollars, but just in case I forget and slip up, I'll write that down. "Use NONE of Loundry's tax money!"

There. Your tax dollars are now safe.

[aside] With George W in office, no one's tax dollars are safe! [/aside]

 

[ChaliceThunder]

I say let the gays do what they want. I doubt they will take over the world or and force our children into homosexuality or anything. People shouldn't feel threatened by people who are different than them.

As a Christian, I have beliefs. I don't expect others to have the same beliefs. I am just supposed to do what I believe is right and let Christ's light shine through me. I can't force anyone to do or believe anything. I love homo's and non-homo's the same, just like Jesus did.

You, brother, are a powerful witness to the liberating love of Jesus. Thank you - reps on the way!

 

[Rev Wayne]

I say let the gays do what they want. I doubt they will take over the world or and force our children into homosexuality or anything. People shouldn't feel threatened by people who are different than them.

As a Christian, I have beliefs. I don't expect others to have the same beliefs. I am just supposed to do what I believe is right and let Christ's light shine through me. I can't force anyone to do or believe anything. I love homo's and non-homo's the same, just like Jesus did.

Nobody should have to feel threatened by the minority of people who are inaccurately taken to be the "norm" in their stance on either side of this issue. Yes, there are people around who kill the Matt Shepards of the world, but they do not represent a very large segment of the population. Yet, because of the actions of such people, the "dialogue" on homosexuality has reached a point where if someone points to a statement they find to be biblically based, stating it is a sin, and states they are in agreement with it, they are automatically treated as though they were guilty of a "hate crime."

Likewise, the number of gays who are activists is probably not a majority by any means, yet even if someone expresses support for them and does so with no belligerence or ill intent, they also get lumped into a group accused of "trying to take over our children."

With the perceptions people have adopted as standard fare, any chance at dialogue is mostly skewered before it ever starts.

 

[Ohioprof]

Nobody should have to feel threatened by the minority of people who are inaccurately taken to be the "norm" in their stance on either side of this issue. Yes, there are people around who kill the Matt Shepards of the world, but they do not represent a very large segment of the population. Yet, because of the actions of such people, the "dialogue" on homosexuality has reached a point where if someone points to a statement they find to be biblically based, stating it is a sin, and states they are in agreement with it, they are automatically treated as though they were guilty of a "hate crime."

Likewise, the number of gays who are activists is probably not a majority by any means, yet even if someone expresses support for them and does so with no belligerence or ill intent, they also get lumped into a group accused of "trying to take over our children."

With the perceptions people have adopted as standard fare, any chance at dialogue is mostly skewered before it ever starts.

I do not see how you can compare those who would kill someone with gay rights activists. You suggest that these are the two extremes. But they are not comparable. People who work for equal rights are to be admired. People who murder are to be given punishment appropriate to their crimes, though we feel compassion for them also.

Most of the gay people I know, and I know many, DO support the work of gay rights activists, if they are not gay rights activists themselves. I am a gay rights activist, in the sense that I speak out for equality and fair treatment for those of us who are gay. I would like to see most Christians become gay rights activists in that sense also. I would hope to see no one become murderers.

I do not think that most people associate the majority of Christians with killers. I personally disagree with those who say that being gay is a sin, because I think it's not. However, I would never associate such a person with the killers of Matt Shepherd, and I think most people would not.

 

[MachZer0]

Pigs are often used as human analogs in various tests, experiments, drug trials, etc. There are a lot of similarities between pig and human organs physically. Are you bothered by being compared to a pig in this way? I'm certainly not, since doing so can sometimes lead to lifesaving treatment or technologies. There is nothing the slightest bit offensive about making simple comparisons between species. No one is saying that humans ARE pigs, or penguins, or monkeys, or whatever. We simply notice similarities in body and behavior.

If you're happy being compared to a pig, it's OK with me.

 

[JGL53]

If you're happy being compared to a pig, it's OK with me.

Have you ever eaten a piece of pork?

If so, then YOU are part pig, no doubt about it.

If you were to get lost in the woods while hiking, die of exposure, and your body gets eaten by a wild boar, then the boar will become part you.

It's all good.

Get over yourself.