3,5 years?

[Zao is life]

yes he has, and I refuted that in post 63, on which he came with some non-arguments (sorry, but "I think" and "I consider" without any scriptural basis is a non-argument) which I also refuted in post 75.

I haven't seen you refute anything.

 

[AdB]

I haven't seen you refute anything.

Seriously what kind of a response is that?!
You might disagree with the nature of the refutal or think it doesn't have substance, but to flat out deny there is any is just an outright stupid response.
But point taken, you seem to only be wanting to pomote your views and are not interested in any civil discourse of ideas, well good luck with that mate.

 

[Zao is life]

Seriously what kind of a response is that?!
You might disagree with the nature of the refutal or think it doesn't have substance, but to flat out deny there is any is just an outright stupid response.
But point taken, you seem to only be wanting to pomote your views and are not interested in any civil discourse of ideas, well good luck with that mate.

No, I mean you say you refuted @Christian Gedge .

But I haven't seen you refute anything.

Nothing rude about either your statement or mine.

So by the same token, you seem to only be wanting to pomote your views and are not interested in any civil discourse of ideas, well good luck with that mate.

 

[AdB]

No, I mean you say you refuted @Christian Gedge .

But I haven't seen you refute anything.

Nothing rude about either your statement or mine.

So by the same token, you seem to only be wanting to pomote your views and are not interested in any civil discourse of ideas, well good luck with that mate.

No, I'm trying to figure out how the notion of 3,5 years for Jesus' ministry is supported by scripture. For that there have to be 4 Passovers, yet only 3 are clearly provided in scripture. I'm open to ideas where the 4th could be hidden, but it should be based on scripture....

 

[AdB]

But I haven't seen you refute anything.

these are not refutals?
3,5 years? Post 63
3,5 years? Post 75

 

[Douggg]

You say "the vision" Gabriel mentiones in Dan 9:23 is referring to the vision Daniel received about a decade earlier? Even though prior to the vision Daniel is now receiving he has uttered a very lengthy prayer, in which he not once mentioned the previous vision? And the vision he is receiving now is a clear answer of his prayer? So you see no way that Gabriel is simply talking about the vision he is about to give to Daniel?

I agree Daniel was not praying about the little horn vision. Nor was Daniel expecting Gabriel to appear to him in response to his prayer in Daniel 9.

But Gabriel did appear to Daniel over his prayer concerning the 70 years of exile about to be over.

Gabriel gave him the additional degree to the 70 years of there being the 70 weeks determined upon Jerusalem and Daniel's people and the Jews.

The reference to the Daniel 8 vision, in v23, and how it ties in with the 70 weeks, as additional explanation is because the last verse of Daniel 8....

27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

So Daniel did not totally understand it himself.

Daniel was told about the little horn person heading south and east toward the pleasant land Israel in Daniel 8:9 - and that the little horn person vision is for the time of the end. But Daniel was not told about confirming the covenant for 7 years by the little horn person.

And Daniel was not told in Daniel 8, about the little horn person being of the people who would destroy a future temple and Jerusalem. Which we know from history that it was by the Roman Empire. That the little horn person would thus be descended from the Romans. (that information is repeated in Revelation 17:10 of being descended from the Julio Claudians.)

So the little horn person will be the prince who shall come, from a geographic location west and north of Israel, from the geographic location of one the breakup kingdoms Greece. And he will confirm the covenant for 7 years.

In Daniel 9, the only covenant referred to that Daniel had prayed over was the Mt Sinai covenant, the law of Moses covenant. And as I had mentioned before, Moses had made a stipulation in Deuteronomy 31:9-13, that all future leaders of Israel on a 7year cycle have the law read to the nation, essentially confirming the Mt. Sinai that God gave the land of Israel to the children of Israel as theirs, forever.

________________________________

The little horn person, following Gog/Magog, enters into the middle east and Israel under the pretense of being peace keeper. The Jews will think he is the messiah, and he will be anointed the King of Israel by the false prophet (perceived by the Jews as Elijah) - making the little horn person the Antichrist.

As the Antichrist, leader of Israel, he will have the law read to the nation of Israel, from the temple mount. That is what actually begins the 7years of the 70th week.

Around 3 years into the 7 years - everything goes awry, with the Antichrist committing the transgression of desolation act of 2Thessalonians2:4, revealing himself as the man of sin - and not the messiah after all.

God in Ezekiel 28:1-10, has him assassinated by strangers for his audacious act. Then after his soul a few days in hell, returns his soul to his body - in disdain for the person - that he will be not long after be cast alive into the lake of fire.

Bringing the person back to life is the strong delusion God sends in 2Thessalonians2:11 to them who believe his initial lying claim of having achieved God-hood - that they should believe his lie.

Brought back to life, possessed by the spirit of the garden of Eden serpent beast, he becomes the beast of Revelation 13. The false prophet has a statue image made of him, and places it on the temple mount. The abomination of desolation. And the great tribulation begins. To end when Jesus returns.

 

[AdB]

The question

So you see no way that Gabriel is simply talking about the vision he is about to give to Daniel?

The admission

I agree Daniel was not praying about the little horn vision. Nor was Daniel expecting Gabriel to appear to him in response to his prayer in Daniel 9.

The denial

But Gabriel did appear to Daniel over his prayer concerning the 70 years of exile about to be over.

Because a decade earlier...
Just ignore all reasons why it is about the topic at hand in to to be given vision, just don't even consider it...

 

[Douggg]

Because a decade earlier...
Just ignore all reasons why it is about the topic at hand in to to be given vision, just don't even consider it...

I don't understand what you are saying.

The vision about the little horn is time of the end. The 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24-27 takes Jerusalem and Daniel's people to the time of the end - when the vision of the little horn events will take place.

The time of the end is also found in Daniel 12:4 and Daniel 12:9. Which the abomination of desolation in Danial 12:11-12 will take place. Time of the end also begins in Daniel 11:36 with the willful king (the beast) who claims to be God.

____________________________________________________________

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

What vision? The vision of the little horn that Gabriel referred to in verse 23. Daniel did not have a vision in Daniel 9. The vision he had involving Gabriel at an earlier time was that of the little horn in Daniel 8.

 

[Christian Gedge]

You seem to want to see a gap of a few months here, just like in John 10:40. Here in John 11:54 the same word emeinen is used, again with no need at all for a long duration. Nothing specifically is said about what Jesus did at this location apart from that He was there with His disciples. Very next verse 55 starts about the Passover being near, using the word "NOW", indicating that was the situation when the previous event (Jesus withdrawing to Ephraim) happened.

Yes, I see a gap of about six months between the following verses:

54 Jesus therefore no longer walked openly among the Jews, but went from there to the region near the wilderness, to a town called Ephraim, and there he stayed with the disciples.

55 Now the Passover of the Jews was at hand, and many went up from the country to Jerusalem before the Passover to purify themselves. (John 11:54-55) ​

You only assume that his stay had to last several days, as if in a short-stay hotel. But Jesus “no longer walking openly” implies a more reasonable length of time. Therefore, my timeline of Jesus ministry shows a third year in AD 29.

I would be interested to hear your underlying reason (a new topic thread?) for replacing the Church’s traditional view with your 2-year preference. This is my last reply to you on this thread.

My svg timeline is linked here for anyone who wishes to study it.

View attachment 311909

 

[visionary]

Here is a presentation... given for spiritual food for thought... PART 4/4 - Does John 6:4 Belong in the New Testament - NehemiasWall.com

 

[AdB]

Here is a presentation... given for spiritual food for thought... PART 4/4 - Does John 6:4 Belong in the New Testament - NehemiasWall.com

I don't have fb

 

[Deafsilence]

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[eclipsenow]

I don't understand what you are saying.

The vision about the little horn is time of the end. The 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24-27 takes Jerusalem and Daniel's people to the time of the end - when the vision of the little horn events will take place.

And the time of the end is when Jesus is born - and then dies.
Acts 2
Hebrews 1
It's the last days - and has been for 2000 years.

Daniel's 70 weeks are VERY difficult - even amongst the professional theologians I know - and is generally taken to referring to Jesus death as abomination OR Antiochus. But then the 3.5 years? That could be since Jesus death and resurrection - it's half of the eternal number 7 so means a limited, finite, but possibly long time. So it could be Jesus that puts an end to sacrifice because his IS the final sacrifice we need.
It's hard to say.
What it isn't?
And end times table.
It's just not.

What is Daniel actually told about the end?

8 I heard, but I did not understand. So I asked, “My lord, what will the outcome of all this be?”

9 He replied, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end. 10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.

11 “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.

13 “As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.”​

That is - there are some mysterious numbers with various possible symbolic meanings but is unclear - especially as we're not even sure what the AOD is about. Possibly Antiochus? Possibly Jesus? It all depends on WHICH of many decrees the Jews get to return to build Jerusalem under what Persian leader - yadda yadda yadda. It's unclear - Daniel shows no sign of understanding it - but what is he told?

Go your way. Continue living your life.
Many futurists here need to heed this call to repent, stop playing guessing games with text that just doesn't support their wild theories, and get back to the business of declaring the gospel - NOT their various end-times-tables.

 

[AdB]

I don't understand what you are saying.

The vision about the little horn is time of the end. The 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24-27 takes Jerusalem and Daniel's people to the time of the end - when the vision of the little horn events will take place.

The time of the end is also found in Daniel 12:4 and Daniel 12:9. Which the abomination of desolation in Danial 12:11-12 will take place. Time of the end also begins in Daniel 11:36 with the willful king (the beast) who claims to be God.

____________________________________________________________

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

What vision? The vision of the little horn that Gabriel referred to in verse 23. Daniel did not have a vision in Daniel 9. The vision he had involving Gabriel at an earlier time was that of the little horn in Daniel 8.

I missed your response here, I also misread your previous post.

You are in fact not making an admission... but then I have to say, Daniels prayer in chapter 9 is all about the 70 years of exile about to be over...

 

[Deafsilence]

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[Zao is life]

Ahhhh someone gets it.

Yes, the destruction of the Temple was the end of a 40 years destruction that begin with the Cross, when the Veil was rent. But there is more to it than that.

Those 40 years were symbolic of something every more important. You see Judgement starts at the House of God. What was happening in the wilderness with Moses was the purging or cleansing of the Congregation so that only those that hadn't sinned against God would enter the Promised land.

The Exodus occurred in the 50th Jubilee. The Wilderness was a type. As Moses led His temple for 40 years in the wilderness, Christ is leading the Church in the Wilderness these 40 Jubilees.

So the last Jubilee would be the 120th, since Jesus came to us the 80th Jubilee. You see Moses was 80 years old when he started his ministry and died at 120 before crossing into the Promised Land. Joshua plays the role of the 2nd coming of Christ.

We need to connect.

You mean something like this (I'm just guessing the second period's dates)?

 

[Deafsilence]

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[Zao is life]

Kinda. Dates are off but the point is that as Moses was 40 years in the wilderness, that there must be 40 Jubilees for the Jesus Church in the wilderness. I can't give dates in this forum so I wont. You can always message me for that information.

However, understand that Moses was 80 when he began his ministry. This means Jesus ministry is underway in the 80th Jubilee. So we actually have 41 Jubilees that must pass (we must include the 80th). Of course, Moses died at 120 years old. So his 80-120 = 41 years.

Thanks. It's okay though. I'm not too keen on working out dates or trying to work out dates for the Lord's return, because Jesus never gave dates, but signs, and Paul gave us a big sign in 2 Thessalonians 2. The Revelation talks about 42 months as the reign of the beast, as does Daniel chapters 7 and 12. The apostasy, the (spiritual) lawlessness, the false prophets and Christs, the miracles and lying wonders, the tribulation of the saints, these are all signs that we are given, but we are not given a date.

 

[Deafsilence]

removed

 

[Zao is life]

Well we are given a date but it's revealed Spiritually. It is MEAT in due season.

Maybe, but the only thing Luke told us is that the apostles were told by Jesus that it is not for them to know the times or the seasons that the Father has put in His own authority, but their job was to share the gospel. So if it was good for them, then it's good for us, I would imagine.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not arguing with you because of what you said, I'm merely saying that what you say is revealed spiritually is not revealed in the New Testament, because the last time the shmita or jubilee cycles were mentioned was when a prophecy relating to the ultimate Jubilee was quoted by Jesus, who applied it to Himself. And if that was the ultimate reason for the shmita and jubilee cycles, I see no reason or suggestion in the New Testament to say that they were meant to be continued to be counted in order to spiritually discern the date of the return of Christ.

I'm a sola scriptura person. If it's not written, I don't believe it.