2Timothy 2:10-13

[fli]

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
11 This is a faithful saying: For if we died with Him, We shall also live with Him. 12 If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us. 13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself. NKJV

Above is Paul writing to Timothy instructing him in doctrine to teach the church. Note verses 1-13 where Paul states a faithful saying the Church is to be taught. Verse 11 “if we died with with Him, we shall also live with Him. Romans 8: 9-10 when we confess Jesus as our Lord and savior we are dead by God's decree. But Paul wrote “If” we died with Him. This makes our death in Jesus conditional. What is it conditional on? Verse 12 (a) if we endure, we shall also reign with Him. Paul wrote “if” we endure we will reign with Him. What do have to endure to reign with Jesus?

There are many places in the new testament where God tells us things that we will endure while in Jesus. In Hebrews 12: 7-8 if we endure chastening of God, He is treating us as sons. In Mark 4: 13-20 the parable of the sower there are 3 soils that receive the word of God.

In verse Matthew 13:20 an Mk4: 6 the stony ground receives the word with gladness, but they only endure for a time. (I was taught as a Baptist that only one soil received Jesus. The Baptist change the word of God to fit their doctrine. That is a very dangerous practice.) The stony soil stumbles after tribulation, persecution or temptations arise. Luke 8: 13 states the stony soil believes for a while, meaning they were saved for a while, but they fall away under temptation. All three agree that the stony soil endures for a time then falls away.

Matthew and Mark state that the thorny soil becomes unfruitful. (John 15:5 without Jesus the branch can do nothing, cannot produce fruit. That means if the soil has produced fruit or is even capable of producing fruit they have to be a branch on Jesus.) Luke states that the thorny ground does not bring any fruit to maturity. All three gospels agree that the thorny soil is capable of producing fruit. In all 3 gospels the stony soil does not endure due to cares of the world.

The thorny and stony soils both had reason to deny Jesus. The stony soil had cause to deny Jesus under persecution, because of being in Christ, they deny Christ in the to end the persecution. If the thorny soil put their hope for worldly pleasures over what Jesus' offers they to have denied Christ. Both types of soil did not endure.

Does this mean that we have to do work to be saved? No! 2Timothy 2:13 if we do not have enough faith to endure Christ will not deny Himself, all we need do is stand and He will take care of us. We will not suffer anything if we keep our mouth shut. Opening the mouth to deny Christ, is work, keeping it shut is not. You have to do work to deny Jesus. Christ knows your if your heart still loves what He offers. He will take you out of the situation if your heart desires Him over Satan. 2Timothy 2:13 if we do not have enough faith to endure, Christ will not deny Himself, all we need do is stand, in Christ, and He will take care of us.

We can choose to do work to bring glory to Jesus. If we choose to do work it is to walk in the Spirit and produce more fruit.

Both Jesus' parable of the soils and 2Timothy 2: 10-13 clearly defines a path for Christians to be saved or to deny Christ and have Him deny them. Christians can lose salvation by Jesus' words in the parable of the sower. That supports Paul's scriptures in 2Timothy 2: 10-13. Let's hear from the word wizards how they magically change God's word to fit their doctrine.

 

[bling]

We do not do good stuff to get anything, but out of a gratitude type of Godly Love we do good stuff because of what has been do for us.

 

[fli]

We do not do good stuff to get anything, but out of a gratitude type of Godly Love we do good stuff because of what has been do for us.

I agree. Nothing that I have posted disagrees with that. Yet, God said that we were made to love Him and give Him glory. To do that we must do works at some point in our salvation. Once we are considered His child we are expected to act like His child. Not for salvation, but to show our love and to do works. Contrary to what most teach, we are not His child until we prove that we will let Him discipline us. If He can't discipline us, we would not be progressively sanctified.

 

[bling]

I agree. Nothing that I have posted disagrees with that. Yet, God said that we were made to love Him and give Him glory. To do that we must do works at some point in our salvation. Once we are considered His child we are expected to act like His child. Not for salvation, but to show our love and to do works. Contrary to what most teach, we are not His child until we prove that we will let Him discipline us. If He can't discipline us, we would not be progressively sanctified.

Love and faith grow together and with use. The idea is not to jump out to be a missionary in Africa, but to wash the dishes at home without being asked or even letting anyone know.

 

[fli]

Love and faith grow together and with use. The idea is not to jump out to be a missionary in Africa, but to wash the dishes at home without being asked or even letting anyone know.

I have heard of some fast miracles, but for me it was a long slow journey. At first, I had to read the bible daily or I didn't feel complete. I tried to read commentaries but that did not fill the void, I had to read the word. Then I was convicted to tithe. Later I joined a church that was into prison ministry, which I joined. That was with Bill Glass ministry and was every couple of months, maybe 3 times a year, I kept getting convicted in different areas. I could not just pass someone who had their hand out nor while traveling to a prison ministry could I pass by someone in trouble. It has been a long slow journey, but I have tried to endure and be faithful.

John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him." NKJV

I truly believe that the above scripture applies to anyone that believes God's word and endures. Jesus will open His word to be understood.

 

[bling]

I have heard of some fast miracles, but for me it was a long slow journey. At first, I had to read the bible daily or I didn't feel complete. I tried to read commentaries but that did not fill the void, I had to read the word. Then I was convicted to tithe. Later I joined a church that was into prison ministry, which I joined. That was with Bill Glass ministry and was every couple of months, maybe 3 times a year, I kept getting convicted in different areas. I could not just pass someone who had their hand out nor while traveling to a prison ministry could I pass by someone in trouble. It has been a long slow journey, but I have tried to endure and be faithful.

John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him." NKJV

I truly believe that the above scripture applies to anyone that believes God's word and endures. Jesus will open His word to be understood.

My single one-day awakening happened this way:

For many years, I experienced and believed Christianity had no real down side. It was a happy, easy and rewarding life, everyone should jump in. It was a fun easy life for me and I had a great resume and wanted to add prison Bible teaching.

I use to teach “we (Christians) all sin lots of times especially lusting and cannot keep from it, but we are constantly being washed by the blood of Christ, so we are without sin in that case.” That was before I met a group of Christians that risked death for themselves and others by sinning, just any sign of not doing what Christ would be doing in that moment could result in being beaten to death. Here is what happened:

I got thrown into (volunteered to substitute teach) with the youth (13-21 age) prisoners program teaching Bible (one hour on Sunday morning to a group of 14 with three other Christians teaching groups of 14) and I was teaching three groups of “Christians”. The first group were guys (“going to school”, it is called), they start out causing trouble and getting thrown in the tank. Then they start increasingly attending the Bible services, carrying their Bible, being nice, eventually being baptized and saying they are Christian. By the time the parole board meets, they have this glowing report showing continued improvement tied to their increased spirituality and are released. These guys still carry weapons, are members of a gang, and every prisoner knows they just “went to school” to get out. The second group were converted before they went to prison (granny conversions), but on their first day they are seen watching raunchy TV, hanging with a loss group, laughing at off colored jokes, they were not always talking about Jesus and were not trying to convert others. On their first day in prison the snitches see this, the snitches talk to the Bulls who then approach these “Christians” saying: “you are not a Christian” (doing everything Christ would do) and make them a slave (often sexual) or at best a gang member. They still come to Bible study on Sunday, so they can tell Granny (who visits them Sunday afternoon) what they learned, but they are slaves (sometimes sexually) to some bull. The third group is fanatical, they stick close to each other, they: study, pray, witness to everyone, and avoid even a hint of insincerity that the snitches could see. They carry no weapons, but step between those that are being beaten especially persecuted. This group had grown over the last 3 years from just a couple of guys to now 42, but it came at a high price. Each convert had on the day he was baptized, given up the protection of his gang membership, turned over his weapons along with all his possessions (the gang owns everything including them), they were beaten if not by the gang they left, then by other gangs looking for payback and then they were watched constantly looking for any sign the snitches might interpret as weakness (anything less than what Christ would do in the situation, would result in a beating and it could lead to death). There is absolutely no privacy and these Christians never wanted to be found alone. They slept in barracks where at least one stayed awake all night praying over the others, so they could sleep without the fear of being smashed in the head in the middle of the night. These guys believed and counted on power from the Holy Spirit, I did not know existed. They come battered and bruised each week hungry for some real meaningful Christ like lesson that goes beyond their group study of 40+hours that week on the same subject, which I could not provide. They mostly helped me with my poor example of Christianity and lack of knowledge and lack of wisdom. They mentored me even though they were only Christian for a few months, but I was a poor disciple and could not keep up with them. I don’t know if I could go through what they went through.

I had many hard nights praying and crying over those young men. I Loved them and empathetically to some degree suffered with them.

They really did not talk about “not sinning”, but what better things they could be doing each and every minute of the day and night. If they did sin, even with their thoughts, they confessed immediately to everyone (all around so the snitches could hear it also), asking for help, prays and ideas on doing better, yet this was not a daily action for everyone.

 

[fli]

Thank you. God bless

 

[Jan001]

Does this mean that we have to do work to be saved? No! 2Timothy 2:13 if we do not have enough faith to endure Christ will not deny Himself, all we need do is stand and He will take care of us. We will not suffer anything if we keep our mouth shut. Opening the mouth to deny Christ, is work, keeping it shut is not. You have to do work to deny Jesus. Christ knows your if your heart still loves what He offers. He will take you out of the situation if your heart desires Him over Satan. 2Timothy 2:13 if we do not have enough faith to endure, Christ will not deny Himself, all we need do is stand, in Christ, and He will take care of us.

Jesus expects his followers to imitate his obedience to his Father's will; do the good works that God prepared for them to do before he created the world. Ephesians 2:10

At the Judgment, will Jesus judge us worthy to enter eternal life because we said we had faith in him to save us, or will he judge us worthy to enter eternal life because we proved we loved (had faith) in him by loving our brothers/neighbors?

We love our neighbors by doing good to them and not harming them.

Matthew 25:31-46
When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33 and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. 34 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world, 35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food or thirsty and gave you something to drink? 38 And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you or naked and gave you clothing? 39 And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?’ 40 And the king will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did it to me.’ 41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘You who are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels, 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not take care of you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment but the righteous into eternal life.”


James 2:14-17, 20, 24
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but does not have works? Surely that faith cannot save, can it? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and lacks daily food 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and eat your fill,” and yet you do not supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that? 17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.
....20 Do you want to be shown, you senseless person, that faith apart from works is worthless?.... 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. ....For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is also dead.


1 John 4:21
The commandment we have from him is this: those who love God must love their brothers and sisters also.

God's Son will always love us. He created us along with his Father and the Holy Spirit. He cannot deny his love for us.

We can deny our love for him by choosing to be disobedient.

Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but they deny him by their actions; they are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.


We prove we love our neighbors by doing good to them and refraining from doing harm to them. Romans 13:9-10
We prove we love God, whom we cannot see, by loving our neighbors, whom we can see. 1 John 4:20

Eternal life is promised only to those who love (obey) God. 1 Corinthians 2:9

 

[Matt5]

I agree with this whole works thing, but what is acceptable?

Take a look at the Christians in verse 22. They run circles around me.

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
Matthew 7:23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

What is their crime?

Might be nice to know.