2nd Reading Pentecost 23 12 Nov

[gordonhooker]

1 Thess. 4:9-18

If you were going to preach a sermon on this reading using the good old 3 points and a prayer/poem.

1. What would your theme be?
2. What would your three points be?
3. How would you address vv. 15-17?

I am looking for some serious discussion on this passage thanks.

 

[Philip_B]

1. Encourage one another
2. Three Points
   • Love binds the Church
   • Be concerned about you own affairs
   • Be responsible
3. The challenge of these verses is that the early Christians expected the return of Jesus in their lifetime, and that it did not happen in their lifetime shows us that no-one knows when but we do know that we are called to be prepared. Then I might play the opening of Queens 'I feel like I'm Fixing to Die Rag' with the line are you ready, and you ready for this, are you hanging on the edge of your seat?

If the address was in the context of the Holy Eucharist, I might then also draw on some of the eschatological notions of the Eucharist, as the meeting between time and eternity.

 

[gordonhooker]

Very interesting thanks Phillip you pretty much described how Scott preached the yesterdays Gospel Matt. 25:1-13 it was a great sermon.

 

[Paidiske]

It depends on the occasion...

As it happens I preached on that passage yesterday. I also had a young couple who are not churchgoers, in church, for a thanksgiving for the birth of their son; and their family and friends doubled my usual congregation. So I had a bunch of people for whom this was the first time they'd set foot in church.

So I took as my theme our capacity to love, and Paul's exhortation to love "more and more." I talked about how we were created in love and to love, but sin has marred that and now our efforts to love have mixed outcomes. I talked about God's desire to be in loving relationship with us, and to partner with us in our project of raising our children in love; to resource and support us and be with us through the ups and downs of it. I talked about the role of the church community as extended practical support network. And I prayed that they would be encouraged by knowing that no matter what happens in their journey as parents, they're never alone in it.

I didn't touch verses 15-17, though!

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

1 Thess. 4:9-18
If you were going to preach a sermon on this reading using the good old 3 points and a prayer/poem.
1. What would your theme be?

Theme would be love within the context of fraternal fellowship.

2. What would your three points be?

1) Gk. philadelphia, composed of phileo, to love (referring to love in general, as to have affection for ), and adelphos, brother.

From this point I would extend to the Revelation to the church of Philidelphia ( Revelation 3:7-13 ) the only letter addressed to the churches w/o a reprimand.

2) Gk. agapao, referring to noble love.

How to aspire to that walk using vv.9-10 that we're "exhorted to abound still more" than the early church in giving to the body in unfeigned love.

3) Gk. parousia, meaning presence.

The hope contained for all believers past, present and future at His return ... a trumpet for assembling God's redeemed people

3. How would you address vv. 15-17?

I would expand on my beliefs and understanding held in these passages of scripture:

Acts 8:39
And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away; and the eunuch did not see him anymore, for he went on his way rejoicing.
2 Corinthians 12:2
I know a man in Christ, fourteen years ago (whether in the body I do not know, or outside the body I do not know; God knows) such a one was caught away to the third heaven.
2 Corinthians 12:4
That he was caught away into Paradise and heard unspeakable words, which it is not allowed for a man to speak.​

and a prayer/poem.

Ephesians 1:17
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

 

[gordonhooker]

It depends on the occasion...

As it happens I preached on that passage yesterday. I also had a young couple who are not churchgoers, in church, for a thanksgiving for the birth of their son; and their family and friends doubled my usual congregation. So I had a bunch of people for whom this was the first time they'd set foot in church.

So I took as my theme our capacity to love, and Paul's exhortation to love "more and more." I talked about how we were created in love and to love, but sin has marred that and now our efforts to love have mixed outcomes. I talked about God's desire to be in loving relationship with us, and to partner with us in our project of raising our children in love; to resource and support us and be with us through the ups and downs of it. I talked about the role of the church community as extended practical support network. And I prayed that they would be encouraged by knowing that no matter what happens in their journey as parents, they're never alone in it.

I didn't touch verses 15-17, though!

So yes context and the make up of the congregation is also very important, Paul Scott Wilson in his book "The Practice of Preaching 2nd Edition" refers to that as exegesis of the congregation. In that case I can understand why you left vv. 15-17 alone.

 

[gordonhooker]

Theme would be love within the context of fraternal fellowship.


1) Gk. philadelphia, composed of phileo, to love (referring to love in general, as to have affection for ), and adelphos, brother.

From this point I would extend to the Revelation to the church of Philidelphia ( Revelation 3:7-13 ) the only letter addressed to the churches w/o a reprimand.

2) Gk. agapao, referring to noble love.

How to aspire to that walk using vv.9-10 that we're "exhorted to abound still more" than the early church in giving to the body in unfeigned love.

3) Gk. parousia, meaning presence.

The hope contained for all believers past, present and future at His return ... a trumpet for assembling God's redeemed people



I would expand on my beliefs and understanding held in these passages of scripture:

Acts 8:39
And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away; and the eunuch did not see him anymore, for he went on his way rejoicing.
2 Corinthians 12:2
I know a man in Christ, fourteen years ago (whether in the body I do not know, or outside the body I do not know; God knows) such a one was caught away to the third heaven.
2 Corinthians 12:4
That he was caught away into Paradise and heard unspeakable words, which it is not allowed for a man to speak.​

Ephesians 1:17
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Hmmmm deep! I would love to hear that sermon, thank you for your insights.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

1) Reflecting on Galatians 5:6 without quoting it
2) The Maturity of God's love in us.
3) The reason for knowing how it ends is to inspire hope.
.
1 Thessalonians 4
9 ¶ But as touching brotherly love (philos) ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love (agape) one another.
10 And indeed ye do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia: but we beseech you, brethren, that ye increase more and more;
11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;
12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.
.
Paul is talking about how brotherly love does not require additional teaching when we are taught by God directly, intimately, how to love. I might draw an analogy of intimacy with God when participating in the sacraments such as communion. And some may draw this connection related to the modern worship experience and about connection with God or with the body of believers as a whole.
.
In agreement with the letter of James and 1st John, living an honest life and helping the poor is tied in with the understanding of what love is. (1 John 3:17, James 2:14-17)
.
So up until now, we have talked about how we put our faith into action and the love that maturity brings about in us.
.
1 Corinthians 13
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
.
We do not know what we will be, but when Jesus returns, we will become as He is. Now we see as a child, but at the time of Christ's return, we will see the fruit of God's labours within us come to fruition and maturity. And only God knows what this will look like, so it is important to trust him as he makes love mature within us so that we have boldness on the day of judgment because in this world we are like Him. (1 John 4:17)
.
We are not like him because we did it ourselves, we are like him because we trust him and grow together with him as he lives within us from day to day.
.
13 ¶ But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
.
Hope, of the three things that remain, love is the greatest, but each is important.
.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
.
Paul was assuring the Christians that even if they die before the return of Jesus, they will still be with the Lord forever, the purpose of this saying is to inspire hope, and to bring comfort as our brothers and sisters pass on. The purpose of knowing how the story ends, is to inspire hope in a world devoid of it.
.
Let us pray. Heavenly Father, your son said while on earth, While I am in the world, I am in the light of the world. (John 9:5).
.
Since we are now in the world, and your Holy Spirit lives within us, help us to be the light that shines in the darkness, and the love that warms the hearts broken by the way of this world. May the faith, hope, and love in our relationship with you shine brightly in our relationships with everyone in our lives and in the community of the saints. In Jesus name we pray, to your glory, Amen.

 

[gordonhooker]

1) Reflecting on Galatians 5:6 without quoting it
2) The Maturity of God's love in us.
3) The reason for knowing how it ends is to inspire hope.
.
1 Thessalonians 4
9 ¶ But as touching brotherly love (philos) ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love (agape) one another.
10 And indeed ye do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia: but we beseech you, brethren, that ye increase more and more;
11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;
12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.
.
Paul is talking about how brotherly love does not require additional teaching when we are taught by God directly, intimately, how to love. I might draw an analogy of intimacy with God when participating in the sacraments such as communion. And some may draw this connection related to the modern worship experience and about connection with God or with the body of believers as a whole.
.
In agreement with the letter of James and 1st John, living an honest life and helping the poor is tied in with the understanding of what love is. (1 John 3:17, James 2:14-17)
.
So up until now, we have talked about how we put our faith into action and the love that maturity brings about in us.
.
1 Corinthians 13
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
.
We do not know what we will be, but when Jesus returns, we will become as He is. Now we see as a child, but at the time of Christ's return, we will see the fruit of God's labours within us come to fruition and maturity. And only God knows what this will look like, so it is important to trust him as he makes love mature within us so that we have boldness on the day of judgment because in this world we are like Him. (1 John 4:17)
.
We are not like him because we did it ourselves, we are like him because we trust him and grow together with him as he lives within us from day to day.
.
13 ¶ But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
.
Hope, of the three things that remain, love is the greatest, but each is important.
.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
.
Paul was assuring the Christians that even if they die before the return of Jesus, they will still be with the Lord forever, the purpose of this saying is to inspire hope, and to bring comfort as our brothers and sisters pass on. The purpose of knowing how the story ends, is to inspire hope in a world devoid of it.
.
Let us pray. Heavenly Father, your son said while on earth, While I am in the world, I am in the light of the world. (John 9:5).
.
Since we are now in the world, and your Holy Spirit lives within us, help us to be the light that shines in the darkness, and the love that warms the hearts broken by the way of this world. May the faith, hope, and love in our relationship with you shine brightly in our relationships with everyone in our lives and in the community of the saints. In Jesus name we pray, to your glory, Amen.

Thanks Michael another interesting approach.

 

[Shane R]

I hate readings like that. The two paragraphs really don't have that much to do with each other. It is all a bit arbitrary. The fourth chapter is sort of a tying up of loose ends; presumably answering questions or providing instruction that were pertinent to the Thessalonian church particularly. So, my approach would most likely be to ignore the first paragraph, because it is rather self explanatory - unless there was a pressing pastoral need.

Most of my congregation is older and reflecting on the end is more relevant to them: they have seen their friends pass and some are realizing their own frailty. Also, we are quite close to Advent, so giving a nod to preparation for that season is pertinent. Much of my congregation has only a rudimentary sense of the cycle of the church year, and that more from having been around for a few years than any concerted effort to teach the continuity of it. Our priest, for all of his strengths, is rather low church and doesn't pay much attention to the Ordo Kalendar. It falls to me to explain how the liturgy and the calendar are imbued with the teachings of the Gospel.

I would address 15-17 from the perspective of a joyous reunion. I certainly would not bog down in millenial theories. Sometimes it is not pertinent to combat the enemy that is not in our midst. There is often a greater chance of causing confusion than good when setting out to fight a battle that is not at hand. I have found that those who read the evangelical pap of our time will generally make their position known to you if you haven't provided enough positive reinforcement and agreement in the public setting, and then you can work through that one on one rather than drowning the whole congregation in one person's pet issue.

 

[gordonhooker]

I hate readings like that. The two paragraphs really don't have that much to do with each other. It is all a bit arbitrary. The fourth chapter is sort of a tying up of loose ends; presumably answering questions or providing instruction that were pertinent to the Thessalonian church particularly. So, my approach would most likely be to ignore the first paragraph, because it is rather self explanatory - unless there was a pressing pastoral need.

Most of my congregation is older and reflecting on the end is more relevant to them: they have seen their friends pass and some are realizing their own frailty. Also, we are quite close to Advent, so giving a nod to preparation for that season is pertinent. Much of my congregation has only a rudimentary sense of the cycle of the church year, and that more from having been around for a few years than any concerted effort to teach the continuity of it. Our priest, for all of his strengths, is rather low church and doesn't pay much attention to the Ordo Kalendar. It falls to me to explain how the liturgy and the calendar are imbued with the teachings of the Gospel.

I would address 15-17 from the perspective of a joyous reunion. I certainly would not bog down in millenial theories. Sometimes it is not pertinent to combat the enemy that is not in our midst. There is often a greater chance of causing confusion than good when setting out to fight a battle that is not at hand. I have found that those who read the evangelical pap of our time will generally make their position known to you if you haven't provided enough positive reinforcement and agreement in the public setting, and then you can work through that one on one rather than drowning the whole congregation in one person's pet issue.

Thanks Shane

So the exegesis of the congregation and a great idea for the the last passage.