Ordained Pastor? No really?

[coastie]

I've been watching some so-called "Ordained Pastors" come on TV lately and speak about things that are so obviously against Christian doctrine or just completely contadicting to Christ's teachings that I have come to wonder...

-What does it take to be an ordained minister?

-Is it a "BECOME A PASTOR BY MAIL" thing nowadays?

-Who decides whether or not they should be allowed to call themselves Christian Ministers?

-Once they do have that title, shouldn't someone from his/her denomination be holding them accountable so as to not tarnish our precious religion?

The reason that this bothers me is that Joe Schmo of Cookville, CA has a new radical vision of God, gets some hokey certificate by mail and now has the authority and reccommendation to teach folks false teachings, and tbecause of his title, REAL Christians are inadvertently supporting his deceiptful ministries.

What do you all know/think about this?

Zach

 

[Andrew]

well I'm not sure abt how the process works. Can a person who did not go to theological colleage/Bible school be ordained as a minister/Pastor?

I know that people can preach and pastor without needing to go to Bible school and getting a recognised cert. After all, Peter and many of the disciples were just fishermen by trade.

 

[coastie]

Originally posted by Andrew
well I'm not sure abt how the process works. Can a person who did not go to theological colleage/Bible school be ordained as a minister/Pastor?

I know that people can preach and pastor without needing to go to Bible school and getting a recognised cert. After all, Peter and many of the disciples were just fishermen by trade.

Peter was appointed by Jesus Himself. To me that qualifies

ok, but my question is more invovled than just "can they teach?"

I wan't to know how they obtain the ability to teach and if there is (or should be) a way to hold these false teachers accountable in order to avoid tarnishing Christianity?

Actually, my first post probably is the most clear. I'm specifically speaking of the more liberal Pastors (who are really popular with the media right now) and pastors of cults that call themselves Christian who teach things that are very obviously contradictive to the Gospel.

Thanks


Zach

 

[Andrew]

"I wan't to know how they obtain the ability to teach and if there is (or should be) a way to hold these false teachers accountable in order to avoid tarnishing Christianity?"

I dun think there are any rules in the US that says who can or cannot get up on stage and preach/teach the Bible. Can any organisation really stop a man from wanting to preach or teach? I mean anyone can go study the Bible and then go teach about it, whether he's called or not and getting revelation from God is another thing altogether.

 

[coastie]

I dun think there are any rules in the US that says who can or cannot get up on stage and preach/teach the Bible. Can any organisation really stop a man from wanting to preach or teach? I mean anyone can go study the Bible and then go teach about it, whether he's called or not and getting revelation from God is another thing altogether.

I don't mean the government... I mean the Christian church.

 

[Gerry]

The ordination process varies from denomonation to denomination, and orgination to orgination. With some it is the particular local Chruch that ordains a Pastor. With others it is the denomination itself. There must be a thousand different ways of being ordained in this country, alone.

But all that does is give you certain rights and privileges within the Church. In America you can put a Rev. in front of Coastie and buy you some time on TV and preach that God is a soda pop if you want to.

As far as tarnishing the Christian Religion, have you noticed what goes on here? Get this: Some here, in the name of Christianity, are preaching that Christ is not the only way to Heaven.

Christianity has become a vague and maligned term. That is why it is pointless to ask a person if they are a Christian.

Some believe you must be baptized and others not. Some believe you must speak in tongues, others not. Some believe you must be a member od a particular church, others not. Some believe in laying on of hands and othes not. Some believe in healing lines, others not.

The list goes on forever and without end, but ALL say they are Christian.
But Jesus says: "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

 

[coastie]

There is moral corruptness and compromising of doctrinal values rampant through society right now and it is the guilty persons who get Christians such bad press. It is hard to explain to someone who doesn't believe that there are Christians and then there are those who claim to be Christians.

They don't wan to take the time to know the difference and then therefore judge us all by the actions of false teachers and hypocrites.

But false teachers are my particular concern, because they are the ones on TV spouting their personal version of God's word. They are the one's compromising fundemental Christian values for the beneift of the liberal society. They are the one's who contradict themselves while subsequently undermining the teachings of Christ.

These people who profess to be God's own representatives yet outwardly oppose Christian values (The Rev. Jesse Jackson comes to mind). These people are an embarrassment to me and the Holy Teachings of Jesus Christ.

Who has the power to strip them of their self-appointed or falsely appointed titles of Christian Leaders.

For instance, I can buy a police badge, and I can get a gun and introduce myself as Officer Zach. But the local police department will quickly put an end to my shenanigans, however, we, as Christians, cannot do the same with our impersonators.

 

[Pastor N.B.]

Hi,
re/read the posts! Do you think that we are held guiltless from what we say, suggest, or TEACH in OUR POSTINGS? See Dan. 7:10's last part? Or Rev. 20:12, or Eccl. 12:13-14! Remember, that your life lived is the real CALLING in open 'seen' print!

Where did we get this 'teaching' calling? (read 1 Cor. 14 or chapter 13:27-28 in particular)

That is the same way that a Pastor knows of his calling. If a denomination or group recognize his calling? Then they can hire him as Pastor.
See 1 Cor. 9:2 for how Paul knew of the [after effects] of his calling from Christ. ----P/N/B/

 

[coastie]

Don't get me wrong pastor N.B., I have a lot of respect for pastors and I understand the calling. In my family I have two pastors and my brother will be staarting seminary himself in not too long.

My problem is with the one's who use the title but are not in fact teaching God's word.

 

[ZiSunka]

Originally posted by Andrew
well I'm not sure abt how the process works. Can a person who did not go to theological colleage/Bible school be ordained as a minister/Pastor?

I know that people can preach and pastor without needing to go to Bible school and getting a recognised cert. After all, Peter and many of the disciples were just fishermen by trade.

It is entirely up to churches and denominations to determine who can and is ordained. The state does not impose any standards, as this would be forbidden by the first amendment of our constitution. And not every church requires seminary training or Bible college training. In fact, some denominations actually forbid people with higher education from being ordained.

So, just because someone is ordained doesn't mean they are train, qualified or even called to be preachers.

 

[Gerry]

Yeah Coastie. I recently negotiated with a radio station for time. I asked about their guidelines. I was told as long as I paid their fee, I could teach anything I wanted to.

It is this lack of caring, concern, dedication and zeal on the part of born again Chriatians that allow this sort of thing to go on.

I realize we live in America where we are guaranteed free speech and I have fought to support that freedom.

But blatant organized blasphemy gos beyong free speech, in my opinion.

This ALL happens though because "Christians" do NOT obey the commands of Christ. Christians do not come together in UNITY. Christians do NOT love one another, nor do they pray for one another as COMMANDED. Christians group up and huddle BEHIND the backs of other Christians and GOSSIP about them and destroy their character.

When one Christian is attacked the others desert him and leave him to be torn to shreds, while they go off and "discuss" what action they could or should take, IF ANY.

Christians say "LORD, LORD" but they don't do the works of the One who called them.

They do NOT seem to understand or care that CHRIST said to "love one another AS I HAVE LOVED YOU". When you open God's Word and read how Jesus loved and LOVES us, you can see how far short we fall. How much are we willing to suffer for one another? How quickly we we lay down our lives for one another?

Are you kidding??? We are NOT even willing to PRAY for one another. Yet people run around saying, "I am a Christian". Sure! That is why Jesus has WARNED: "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

We, as Christians do not even begin to have the LOVE right and we better be busy getting it right.

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

There are those who call themselves Christians ABIDING in DEATH, because they do not love the brethren!!!

 

[ZiSunka]

You're in a really harsh mood today Gerry. Did you really mean to be as brutal and do so much finger-pointing, or are you coming across harsher than you mean?

 

[Gerry]

Harsh mood??? I disagree entirely. I am certainly in no more harsh a mood than Jesus. Christianity is not a wishy washy religion. Either one follows Christ or does not. It is just that simple.

You say I am pointing fingers. At whom am I pointing them? Am I telling some false hood here? Am I going against what Christ has said? Or did not Christ say the same thing? As a disciple of His, am I to change it and say less?

I think not. I think it is time we took a look at ourselves and saw us for who and what we are!

 

[ZiSunka]

I admire your outrage, but calm down a bit and realize that God will indeed dealwith these people and it is not up to you alone to change them. Pray for them, write to them and explain their errors, but simply yelling here at CF will not do anything constructive. Yell at the ones doing it, not us.

 

[Gerry]

What are you talking about Lambslove? Who am I yelling at? I am surely not yelling at you. I am quoting Jesus and stating my opiniopn about something that is very serious to me. I am not at all sure what the objection is. But I am going to take a stand. And I am going to say what Jesus says. And if someone finds offense with the Gospel, that too is scriptural. So be it. I have re read my post and I do not see what is wrong with it. I have told no lies and said nothing untrue or anti Christian. I posted what JESUS said about love. Or at least a part of it. He had a LOT more to say I have not posted.

I do not understand what a LOVED SISTER is objecting to.

 

[Jenna]

I'm with Gerry on this one. I don't think he is being harsh at all, just speaking the truth. In my opinion, the only one's who should feel upset by his words are those who are falling short of God's will for them.

As far as false teachers go, the best way to combat ignorance is with knowledge. If you fear that others are being taught incorrectly, then make an added effort to get out and educate them on what is right. It's not possible to just make them stop spouting smoo because of our 1st amendment rights, and the long and short of that means that if we don't like what they have to say, well, we can just deal with it. What is really important is HOW we deal with it as the Christian body.

 

[Gerry]

What is really important is HOW we deal with it as the Christian body.

Amen! THAT is what is important.

 

[Jenna]

I admire your outrage, but calm down a bit and realize that God will indeed dealwith these people and it is not up to you alone to change them. Pray for them, write to them and explain their errors, but simply yelling here at CF will not do anything constructive. Yell at the ones doing it, not us.

Pardon me for a second, but I didn't see your name in his post lambslove. You know what is going on between you and God, so if you know that you are on the right track, you should also feel perfectly content that it isn't a matter of Gerry "yelling" at you. What it does accomplish is that each person has to read the post and determine whether they are apart of the "us" that you speak of. Reflecting on one's life with Christ and it's fruitfulness is not a bad thing.

 

[Gerry]

Thanks for this understanding and helping me to explain my point. It is indeed time for us all to look inwardly and reflect on where we are in a relationship with Jesus and if we are being obedient to His commands, especially as concerns the Body, and what we are doing to reproduce ourselves, and exibit the fruit of the Spirit.

Originally posted by Jenna
Pardon me for a second, but I didn't see your name in his post lambslove. You know what is going on between you and God, so if you know that you are on the right track, you should also feel perfectly content that it isn't a matter of Gerry "yelling" at you. What it does accomplish is that each person has to read the post and determine whether they are apart of the "us" that you speak of. Reflecting on one's life with Christ and it's fruitfulness is not a bad thing.

 

[Jenna]

Hey, no problem, Gerry. I know where your heart is.