2300 day/year prophecy of Daniel 8 - correct timeline - wrong event.

[BobRyan]

I believe the Millerites and the SDA got the 2300 year prophesy wrong, even if I don't know what is right. The prophesy ends with, "Then shall the sanctuary be cleansed." The cleansing of the sanctuary is when the blood is sprinkled on the holy Place and the blood will be Christ's blood and I am of the opinion that this took place two thousand years ago. Since Christ became the High Priest there is only one sacrifice and one cleansing of the sanctuary but this service is a two thousand year event.

The Lev 16 event (the Day of Atonement) began in 1844 which was 2300 years after the starting point of the Daniel 8 timeline (starting in the middle of the Medo-Persian empire according to Daniel 8 and specifically identified as starting in 456 B.C. in Daniel 9)

Christ began his work as High Priest 2000 years ago because as Hebrews 7:27 points out one of the duties of the high priest is to ministry daily in the sanctuary ministering on behalf of the people.

Heb 7
27 who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people,

High Priests had daily ministry - and unlike them - Christ did not offer up sacrifices for his own sin - but rather made one single sacrifice -- that he offers up to God for us in his daily ministry role as our High Priest.

But the Daniel 7 and 8 prophecies point to the "Day of Atonement" work of Christ, the judgment of all mankind.

The future judgment - predicted by Paul in Romans 2:13-16 and in 2 Corinthians 5:10.

The future judgment predicted by John in Revelation 14:6-7

 

[sparow]

The Lev 16 event (the Day of Atonement) begin in 1844 which was 2300 years after the starting point of the Daniel 8 timeline (starting in the middle of the Medo-Persian empire according to Daniel 8 and specifically identified as starting in 456 B.C. in Daniel 9)

Christ began his work as High Priest 2000 years ago because as Hebrews 7:27 points out one of the duties of the high priest is to ministry daily in the sanctuary ministering on behalf of the people.

Heb 7
27 who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people,

High Priests had daily ministry - and unlike them - Christ did not offer up sacrifices for his own sin - but rather made one single sacrifice -- that he offers up to God for us in his daily ministry role as our High Priest.

But the Daniel 7 and 8 prophecies point to the "Day of Atonement" work of Christ, the judgment of all mankind.

It is always good to toss the scripture around; while the scriptures are the bread of life, forum usage amounts to chewing the cud; you probably already know that every body interprets the scriptures differently. I learned most of SDA teaching on Daniel from Kenneth Cox but as time passed I began to doubt for many differing reasons and when I enquired from prominent SDA spokesmen regarding the starting point for the 2300 year prophesy I found they never quoted Daniel of Mrs White or Miller or those who preceded him, they said the starting point is deemed by a panel of SDA elders.

 

[BobRyan]

It is always good to toss the scripture around; while the scriptures are the bread of life, forum usage amounts to chewing the cud; you probably already know that every body interprets the scriptures differently.

Indeed - look at the threads on evolution where the T.E's try go bend Genesis to fit evolution.
Look at the threads on Purgatory where some will try to get 1 Corinthians 3 to be talking about Purgatory.

I learned most of SDA teaching on Daniel from Kenneth Cox but as time passed I began to doubt

More study - less doubt -- I always say.

for many differing reasons and when I enquired from prominent SDA spokesmen regarding the starting point for the 2300 year prophesy I found they never quoted Daniel of Mrs White or Miller or those who preceded him, they said the starting point is deemed by a panel of SDA elders.

Never heard of such a thing. I can't debate an unheard of practice. I have never seen a presentation of the 2300 day timeline where the audience is given "a statement by SDA elders" to consider as proof for that starting point 456B.C . At most they are given some quotes to show that historically there were SDAs and millerites that accepted that starting point - but saying that historically it is known that Miller believed something to be true has never been made as the argument that it "is true". (perfect proof of this is the historic fact that Miller was never a Seventh-day Adventist by any stretch of the term)

And I dare say I have heard quite a few of those presentations (including a couple by Kenneth Cox). Even made a few of those presentations myself. And never an argument of the form "believe the 456 B.C. start date for both the 490 years and the 2300 years because there is some group of SDA elders some place that agrees with this"). Where in the world does that even come from??

wikipedi (which is no friend to SDAs by a long shot) "other possible candidates suggested by critical scholars include the edict of Cyrus in 539/8 BCE,[48][49] the decree of Artaxerxes I in 458/7 BCE,[50][49]"

In fact that 456 B.C. starting point works perfectly for the 490 year timeline pointing to the baptism of Christ that is the first 490 year segment of the longer 2300 year timeline.

 

[sparow]

Indeed - look at the threads on evolution where the T.E's try go bend Genesis to fit evolution.
Look at the threads on Purgatory where some will try to get 1 Corinthians 3 to be talking about Purgatory.



More study - less doubt -- I always say.



Never heard of such a thing. I can't debate an unheard of practice. I have never seen a presentation of the 2300 day timeline where the audience is given "a statement by SDA elders" to consider as proof for that starting point 456B.C . At most they are given some quotes to show that historically there were SDAs and millerites that accepted that starting point - but saying that historically it is known that Miller believed something to be true has never been made as the argument that it "is true". (perfect proof of this is the historic fact that Miller was never a Seventh-day Adventist by any stretch of the term)

And I dare say I have heard quite a few of those presentations (including a couple by Kenneth Cox). Even made a few of those presentations myself. And never an argument of the form "believe the 456 B.C. start date for both the 490 years and the 2300 years because there is some group of SDA elders some place that agrees with this"). Where in the world does that even come from??

wikipedi (which is no friend to SDAs by a long shot) "other possible candidates suggested by critical scholars include the edict of Cyrus in 539/8 BCE,[48][49] the decree of Artaxerxes I in 458/7 BCE,[50][49]"

In fact that 456 B.C. starting point works perfectly for the 490 year timeline pointing to the baptism of Christ that is the first 490 year segment of the longer 2300 year timeline.

456 BC works for the 490 year prophesy but in 1844 nothing happened apart from people looking silly. I try to make things fit and I have tried many things. One thing that I know is if we have the 2300 years follow the 490 it takes us to around 2330AD which is around year 6000 in the Jewish calendar and some have suggested that the six thousand years are the six days of creation and what is created is the kingdom of God. But the 2300 day prophesy ends with, "Then shall the sanctuary be cleansed," and I believe that happened 2000 years ago but it still could be future, but not 1844.

 

[BobRyan]

456 BC works for the 490 year prophesy but in 1844 nothing happened apart from people looking silly. .

And you know that nothing happened in heaven in 1844 because you have a monitor running in the sanctuary in heaven and were able to witness the whole non-event?? Are we supposed to toss out the Bible and all the prophetic statements about that much-predicted event and just trust your "monitoring"?? If so -- why? How in real life would we even consider such an option when you give nothing to support your claim?

In real life - wouldn't you have to make an actual Bible case for that?

 

[BobRyan]

One thing that I know is if we have the 2300 years follow the 490 it takes us to around 2330AD .

That is true - but that is not what the text says -- when you read the text you find that the vision in Daniel 8 begins during the time of the goat - which the text says is Media and Persia (so no guessing) and that it is during the dominant period of Medo-Persian empire when the vision starts. The vision covers a 2300 year period of time and starts sometime during medo-persian dominance. 456 B.C. -- a much better fit for an event taking place in the dominant period of Medo-Persia - than a 34 A.D. start point -- and this detail is irrefutable.

The exact start event is given in Dan 9 - and both timelines start at that point. The 490 being the first 490 years of the 2300.

 

[sparow]

And you know that nothing happened in heaven in 1844 because you have a monitor running in the sanctuary in heaven and were able to witness the whole non-event?? Are we supposed to toss out the Bible and all the prophetic statements about that much-predicted event and just trust your "monitoring"?? If so -- why? How in real life would we even consider such an option when you give nothing to support your claim?

In real life - wouldn't you have to make an actual Bible case for that?

Have you considered the difference between Paganism and the teaching of the Bible; the bible in it's given form is the truth; translations/interpretations are not necessarily true; Paganism is a lie, that could accidentally contain some truth; pagan ideas are objectively believed into existence where as the Bible is set in stone and believing is subjective, that is not made up by the believer.

As far as I am aware the SDA are the only ones who talk about a sanctuary in heaven and this doesn't bother me except I don't take it as literally as you. Biblical Heaven is the sky and the arch associated with it; had I been there in 1844 I may have seen clouds and birds in the sky but not the cleansing of the sanctuary or the eradication of sin because that didn't happen.

 

[sparow]

That is true - but that is not what the text says -- when you read the text you find that the vision in Daniel 8 begins during the time of the goat - which the text says is Media and Persia (so no guessing) and that it is during the dominant period of Medo-Persian empire when the vision starts. The vision covers a 2300 year period of time and starts sometime during medo-persian dominance. 456 B.C. -- a much better fit for an event taking place in the dominant period of Medo-Persia - than a 34 A.D. start point -- and this detail is irrefutable.

The exact start event is given in Dan 9 - and both timelines start at that point. The 490 being the first 490 years of the 2300.

Medo-Persia has as much to do with what we are talking about as does Santa Clause. The same event is described differently in Daniel in numerous places; basically the four beasts of Daniel combined and over the time thru to Christ to build the image with the Gold head, silver chest, bronze belly and iron legs and feet of iron and clay; this image was complete when Christ came but not alive. Christ destroys this beast by striking it's feet; Christ being the stone cut without hands that strikes the feet. Christ is a 2300 year event; He was to confirm the covenant for seven years but was cut off in the middle of the week; Christ still has half a week of confirming the covenant to go, the same time as the two witnesses and the eighth beast; in between the first and second coming is the 2300 years covered by Revelation.

 

[BobRyan]

Medo-Persia has as much to do with what we are talking about as does Santa Clause.

Daniel 8 is the chapter with the 2300 year timeline -- if one is determined not to read Daniel 8 where God begins the timeline with Medo-Persia... then 'yeah' .. it has nothing to do with anything since reading the chapter is now taken out of the question.

Who goes for that???

The same event is described differently in Daniel in numerous places; basically the four beasts of Daniel combined and over the time

The four beats of Daniel 7 is not where the 2300 year value for the timeline is given. Though the end point with "judgment passed in favor of the saints" is describing the same solution to the problem in Daniel 7 as in Daniel 8.

details matter.

He was to confirm the covenant for seven years but was cut off in the middle of the week; Christ still has half a week of confirming the covenant to go, .

Skip flip and jump to Daniel 9??
That is a slice-and-chop of the 7 years in Daniel 9 that is not justified by the Bible since all Bible timelines are contiguous.

notice that Daniel 9 starts off with the 70 years of Jeremiah - a 70 year prophetic timeline - a timeline that is contiguous which means it serves as a way to predict events that it points to.

turns out slicing and chopping up Bible timelines stick thousands of years of undefined amount of time into the middle of them ... is bible-bending in the extreme and there is not a single Bible timeline that supports it.

Daniel 9 is a 490 year contiguous timeline prophecy about the first coming of Christ and does not support the Jesuit suggestion of slicing it up and inserting vast unknown amounts of centuries in the middle of it.

History has it that - a Spanish Jesuit priest by the name of Francisco Ribera (1537-1591) - during the counter reformation, concocted the futurist interpretation of slicing up Daniel 9 to deflect reformist claims that the Papacy was the Antichrist of scripture. There is apparently no evidence that the futurist interpretation predates the Catholic counterreformation.

 

[BobRyan]

As far as I am aware the SDA are the only ones who talk about a sanctuary in heaven

Indeed SDAs are focused on what the Bible calls the "MAIN POINT" - and most other Christian groups miss it entirely! Glad you noticed this detail which is most often one of the "blind spots" for other Christian denominations.

Heb 8
8 Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. 3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer. 4 Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; 5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.” 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

A New Covenant
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.
8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.


=======================================

Sadly by "ignoring the main point" about Christ's high priestly ministry in the heavenly sanctuary (as even you admit you are doing) - the result is to miss the key features of the NEW Covenant and the context in which it is implemented.

==============================

Hebrews 9
Now even the first covenant had regulations of divine worship and the earthly sanctuary. 2 For there was a tabernacle prepared, the outer one, in which were the lampstand and the table and the sacred bread; this is called the holy place. 3 Behind the second veil there was a tabernacle which is called the Holy of Holies, 4 having a golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden jar holding the manna, and Aaron’s rod which budded, and the tables of the covenant;
...
11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; 12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16 For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. 17 For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives. 18 Therefore even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood. 19 For when every commandment had been spoken by Moses to all the people according to the Law, he took the blood of the calves and the goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God commanded you.” 21 And in the same way he sprinkled both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry with the blood. 22 And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

23 Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own 26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, 28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.
==========================================

The entire Hebrews 8-10 sequence is a "blind spot" for those who refuse to study God's Heavenly Sanctuary. And so they miss the full Bible teaching on the New Covenant.

 

[Dave-W]

as time passed I began to doubt for many differing reasons and when I enquired from prominent SDA spokesmen regarding the starting point for the 2300 year prophesy I found they never quoted Daniel of Mrs White or Miller or those who preceded him, they said the starting point is deemed by a panel of SDA elders.

Does this not assume a common timeline between the heavenly realm and ourselves? Can such a commonality be proved scripturally? Or can we even determine that the heavenly realm has a chronology as we know it at all?

 

[BobRyan]

Does this not assume a common timeline between the heavenly realm and ourselves? Can such a commonality be proved scripturally? Or can we even determine that the heavenly realm has a chronology as we know it at all?

Presumably God would aware of any need to translate time frame context in heaven so that it has real meaning in the context needed for the reader on Earth.

As for the "panel of SDA elders" comment - so far no evidence that such a thing ever existed.

 

[sparow]

Does this not assume a common timeline between the heavenly realm and ourselves? Can such a commonality be proved scripturally? Or can we even determine that the heavenly realm has a chronology as we know it at all?

In my opinion most people who think about prophesy seek a precision that is not given by God. Nothing can be proven from scripture except to the legalist who is on the wrong road anyway. But person who has understanding can often tell when someone else understands. Time line is important because God has given them in Daniel but they are not crystal clear. I have examined many time lines for Daniel and Revelation and I prefer my own conclusion; it is Christ who fulfils the seventieth week, first cut of in the middle of the week but returns to complete confirming the covenant. Most give the seventieth week to Satan after irrationally throwing the seventieth week down to the end of time; I have found no Biblical reason for doing that. The first white horse of the apocalypse is Christ with the covenant and the second white is when he returns.

Some things can be proved wrong; futurism for example, which begins with Roman Catholic apologetics.

 

[sparow]

Daniel 8 is the chapter with the 2300 year timeline -- if one is determined not to read Daniel 8 where God begins the timeline with Medo-Persia... then 'yeah' .. it has nothing to do with anything since reading the chapter is now taken out of the question.

Who goes for that???

The four beats of Daniel 7 is not where the 2300 year value for the timeline is given. Though the end point with "judgment passed in favor of the saints" is describing the same solution to the problem in Daniel 7 as in Daniel 8.

details matter.

Skip flip and jump to Daniel 9??
That is a slice-and-chop of the 7 years in Daniel 9 that is not justified by the Bible since all Bible timelines are contiguous.

notice that Daniel 9 starts off with the 70 years of Jeremiah - a 70 year prophetic timeline - a timeline that is contiguous which means it serves as a way to predict events that it points to.

turns out slicing and chopping up Bible timelines stick thousands of years of undefined amount of time into the middle of them ... is bible-bending in the extreme and there is not a single Bible timeline that supports it.

Daniel 9 is a 490 year contiguous timeline prophecy about the first coming of Christ and does not support the Jesuit suggestion of slicing it up and inserting vast unknown amounts of centuries in the middle of it.

History has it that - a Spanish Jesuit priest by the name of Francisco Ribera (1537-1591) - during the counter reformation, concocted the futurist interpretation of slicing up Daniel 9 to deflect reformist claims that the Papacy was the Antichrist of scripture. There is apparently no evidence that the futurist interpretation predates the Catholic counterreformation.

God's time line is contiguous but you say it isn't; you say that the 490 and 2300 time over lap I say the 2300 years follow contiguously after the 490 years, you say after 2300 years is the time of the end, I say the duration of the time of the end is 2300 years, after reading Daniel 8.

Daniels presentation is not contiguous, he chops back and forth and repeats himself. Daniel 8 is about the time of the end, Daniel 8:17, so you say the ram and the goat, Medo-Persia and Greece and what they get up to in Daniel 8 happens after 1844; I say Daniel 8 happens between the first and second coming of Christ, 2300 years .

It was the Jesuits that gave the seventieth week to Satan but it was Daniel and Gabriel who cut the seventieth week in half or more precisely cut Jesus off in the middle of the week; so what happens to the second half of the week, I say it is reserved for the second coming.

 

[Dave-W]

For me, I tend to discount time lines and go with "No man knows the day or the hour." Matt 24.36.

 

[BobRyan]

God's time line is contiguous but you say it isn't;

You take my statement and "argue its opposite" as if I said that??

What is the point of that?

I say the 70 years of Jeremiah's prophecy in Dan 9:1-4 are contiguous (as are all Bible timeline prophecies) -- so given the start of the timeline you know the time of the event it predicts - this case - in Daniel 9- the release of the Jews from Persia.

So also the 490 year timeline in Daniel 9 (70 weeks of years) also contiguous and it gives the starting event -- so then we see the accurate fulfillment to the baptism of Christ - his crucifixion in the middle of that last week of years - and then the end of the Jewish dispensation 3.5 years later.

you say that the 490 and 2300 time over lap I say the 2300 years follow

Leaving you no start point at all for the 2300 years in Daniel 8 --all you would have "left" as info for starting is that you must start at some point before the rise of Greece (the goat) in Dan 8 and after the rise of Persia (the RAM). Sadly you would have nothing at all to direct your 2300 year timeline "from the text" using that model so you would need to "make stuff up" to compensate.

I prefer sticking with the text. Daniel 9 says that the 490 years are an explanation of the Dan 8 vision - that they give more information about that Dan 8 - 2300 year timeline and that the first 490 years of it "cut off" that is they are being explained.

All Bible timelines are contiguous - without exception and the 70 years of Jeremiah in Dan 9:1-4 proves this irrefutably.

It was the Jesuits that came up with the bogus idea of slicing and dicing "the greatest timeline prophecy pointing to the first coming of Christ" -- Daniel 9

 

[BobRyan]

For me, I tend to discount time lines and go with "No man knows the day or the hour." Matt 24.36.

Well - in Dan 9 the 490 timeline points to the first coming of Christ and specifically His baptism "Annointing by the Holy Spirit" and then his crucifixion in the midst of that last week of years.

Are you "certain" nobody knows about this??

 

[Dave-W]

Well - in Dan 9 the 490 timeline points to the first coming of Christ and specifically His baptism "Anointing by the Holy Spirit" and then his crucifixion in the midst of that last week of years.

Are you "certain" nobody knows about this??

Looking back at something that has already happened is one thing. It is quite another to project into the future.

Remember Paul said we "see thru a glass darkly," (1 Cor 13.12 ) and I take that as a general statement covering many subjects, not just "tongues" or "prophecy." We will understand it all only after "that which is perfect is come," (v 10) which can only be the return of the Lord Himself.

 

[sparow]

You take my statement and "argue its opposite" as if I said that??

What is the point of that?

I say the 70 years of Jeremiah's prophecy in Dan 9:1-4 are contiguous (as are all Bible timeline prophecies) -- so given the start of the timeline you know the time of the event it predicts - this case - in Daniel 9- the release of the Jews from Persia.

So also the 490 year timeline in Daniel 9 (70 weeks of years) also contiguous and it gives the starting event -- so then we see the accurate fulfillment to the baptism of Christ - his crucifixion in the middle of that last week of years - and then the end of the Jewish dispensation 3.5 years later.



Leaving you no start point at all for the 2300 years in Daniel 8 --all you would have "left" as info for starting is that you must start at some point before the rise of Greece (the goat) in Dan 8 and after the rise of Persia (the RAM). Sadly you would have nothing at all to direct your 2300 year timeline "from the text" using that model so you would need to "make stuff up" to compensate.



I prefer sticking with the text. Daniel 9 says that the 490 years are an explanation of the Dan 8 vision - that they give more information about that Dan 8 - 2300 year timeline and that the first 490 years of it "cut off" that is they are being explained.

All Bible timelines are contiguous - without exception and the 70 years of Jeremiah in Dan 9:1-4 proves this irrefutably.

It was the Jesuits that came up with the bogus idea of slicing and dicing "the greatest timeline prophecy pointing to the first coming of Christ" -- Daniel 9

I am sorry to disappoint you but these things are not black and white; I agree with your starting point for the 490 year or seventy week prophesy but there are other points of view; starting from the fourth command to rebuild Jerusalem Jesus's arrival is when He enters Jerusalem on the donkey and fulfils the donkey prophesy. This enables Dispensationalism to deny Jesus the seventieth week and the New Covenant made with the lost sheep of Israel making way for abrogating the Law.

Now you are coming across as a quasi-Dispensationalist; this explains the communication problems we are having; what is this Jewish dispensation stuff; don't you know that for three and a half years Jesus confirmed the covenant with the lost sheep of Israel and later the Law also called the covenant was extended as prophesied in the OT, to the gentiles. The new rendition of the covenant is no less Jewish or Israelish than previous renditions of the covenant each time a remnant came out.

It was Babylon that the Jews came out of not Persia. it is the sanctuary being trodden under foot that lasts 2300 days; and for this to concern us today or in 1844 it has to be Christs sanctuary that is trodden under foot which didn't exist before He became high priest. There is no evidence that the treading under foot ended in 1844.

 

[BobRyan]

God's time line is contiguous but you say it isn't;

You take my statement and "argue its opposite" as if I said that??

What is the point of that?

I say the 70 years of Jeremiah's prophecy in Dan 9:1-4 are contiguous (as are all Bible timeline prophecies) -- so given the start of the timeline you know the time of the event it predicts - this case - in Daniel 9- the release of the Jews from Persia.

So also the 490 year timeline in Daniel 9 (70 weeks of years) also contiguous and it gives the starting event -- so then we see the accurate fulfillment to the baptism of Christ - his crucifixion in the middle of that last week of years - and then the end of the Jewish dispensation 3.5 years later.

you say that the 490 and 2300 time over lap I say the 2300 years follow

Leaving you no start point at all for the 2300 years in Daniel 8 --all you would have "left" as info for starting is that you must start at some point before the rise of Greece (the goat) in Dan 8 and after the rise of Persia (the RAM). Sadly you would have nothing at all to direct your 2300 year timeline "from the text" using that model so you would need to "make stuff up" to compensate.

I prefer sticking with the text. Daniel 9 says that the 490 years are an explanation of the Dan 8 vision - that they give more information about that Dan 8 - 2300 year timeline and that the first 490 years of it "cut off" that is they are being explained.

All Bible timelines are contiguous - without exception and the 70 years of Jeremiah in Dan 9:1-4 proves this irrefutably.

It was the Jesuits that came up with the bogus idea of slicing and dicing "the greatest timeline prophecy pointing to the first coming of Christ" -- Daniel 9

I am sorry to disappoint you but these things are not black and white; I agree with your starting point for the 490 year or seventy week prophesy

The fact that all Bible timeline prophecy timelines are contiguous just as we see in Dan 9;1-5 and Jeremiah's 70 year timeline - is irrefutable. So then the 490 year timeline cannot be sliced-and-diced just to fit the whim of a Jesuit priest attempting his counter-reformation assault on Protestantism.

How is that even remotely confusing?

IT is also irrefutable that the vision of Dan 8 (that has the 2300 year timeline) begins events during Medo-Persian dominance of the "Ram".

This again is - irrefutable.

It is also irrefutable that the Dan 9 vision starts off with the stated purpose of explaining the missing element of the Dan 8 vision -

It was Babylon that the Jews came out of not Persia. .

Persia had taken over Babylon and was the empire in charge at the time of Ezra.

1844 marks the end of the 2300 year timeline and the start of the judgment of Dan 7 that is the core of the Day of Atonement - cleansing of the Sanctuary - mentioned in Dan 8.

Daniel 7 is that at the conclusion of that judgment - when "judgment is passed in favor of the saints" - that this will bring about the end of the atrocities of the little horn. It is the same solution to the same problem seen in both Daniel 7 and Daniel 8

in Christ,

Bob