2 tough questions

[Diakonos]

2 TOUGH QUESTIONS



Question 1:

If you knew a woman who was pregnant, who had

8 kids already, three who were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally

retarded, and she had syphilis,would you recommend that she have an

abortion?

Read the next question before looking at the response for this one.

Question 2:

It is time to elect a new world leader, and only your vote counts. Here

are the facts about the three candidates.



Candidate A.

Associates with crooked politicians, and consults with astrologist. He's

had two mistresses. He also chain smokes and drinks 8 to 10 martinis a day.

Candidate B.

He was kicked out of office twice, sleeps until noon, used opium in college

and drinks a quart of whiskey every evening.

Candidate C.

He is a decorated war hero. He's a vegetarian, doesn't smoke, drinks an

occasional beer and never cheated on his wife.



Which of these candidates would be your choice? Decide first... no peeking, then scroll down for the response.








Candidate A is Franklin D. Roosevelt.
Candidate B is Winston Churchill.

Candidate C is Adolph Hitler.

And, by the way, on your answer to the abortion question: If you said YES,

you just killed Beethoven.

Pretty interesting isn't it? Makes a person think before judging someone.

Wait till you see the end of this note! Keep reading...

Never be afraid to try something new.

Remember: Amateurs...built the ark.

Professionals...built the Titanic.



And Finally, can you imagine working for a company that has a little more than 500 employees and has the following statistics:

* 29 have been accused of spousal abuse

* 7 have been arrested for fraud

* 19 have been accused of writing bad checks

* 117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses

* 3 have done time for assault

* 71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit

* 14 have been arrested on drug-related charges

* 8 have been arrested for shoplifting

* 21 are currently defendants in lawsuits

* 84 have been arrested for drunk driving in the last year...

Can you guess which organization this is?










Give up yet?
It's the 535 members of the United States Congress. The same group that

crank out hundreds of new laws each year designed to keep the rest of us in

line.

 

[Havoc]

From Snopes.com

Origins: Good advice, but unfortunately it's presented with some glurgiously bad examples.

We'll tackle the second half first. It has some good points, namely that by selectively choosing which facts to report, you can make just about anyone look good or bad. It also (perhaps unintentionally) provides an example demonstrating that facts offered out of context can be more misleading than no facts at all: Hitler's diet was primarily vegetarian throughout the latter part of his life; however, he didn't adopt a vegetarian diet for moral reasons, but because he suffered from gastric problems.

Still, some of the semantic trickery used here makes this a rather poor example. Hitler had affairs with several women (some of whom died under mysterious circumstances), but they weren't technically "extramarital" affairs because he wasn't married. Playing games with language might also be part of the lesson here, but we suspect that whoever crafted this piece included some misinformation by mistake, not by design.

The Beethoven example is egregiously misleading. Beethoven was born well over two hundred years ago, in an era when the infant mortality was quite high by modern standards, and even infants who survived were often afflicted with serious health problems. Children didn't die or experience physical problems so frequently back then simply because they were all born to mothers who were themselves in poor health, as is implied here. Offering an 18th century example in a 20th century setting is a very poor way of making a serious point.

Also, Beethoven was not born to a woman who "had 8 kids already." Although his mother, Maria Magdalena Laym (nee Kewerich) gave birth a total of eight times during her lifetime, Ludwig was only her third child. (Her first two children, one from a previous marriage, both died in infancy.) Only two of Beethoven's five younger siblings survived beyond their first few years of their life. Even if we take this example at face value, its message is still problematic. If the woman in the example had been advised to abort her pregnancy based on the (mis)information supplied here, the world would never have known the magic of Beethoven's music. But maybe a different woman who did opt to terminate her pregnancy might have spared the world another Stalin or Hitler. This is the sort of speculative "What if?" game that neither side can win, so it's best not to play at all.

 

[The-Doctor]

are you asking the question or just giving us facts cos I'm confused!

 

[Philosoft]

The only useful "facts" to be found in the OP tell us that someone has a penchant for hindsight bias.

 

[Diakonos]

are you asking the question or just giving us facts cos I'm confused!

This was an email that was forwarded to me. I like it because it turns the tables on judgement without knowledge.

 

[Havoc]

Trouble with these sort of made up analogies is that you can use them to mean absolutely anything you want. Which is why analogies are useless in debate.

However the sentiment behind your interpretation is laudable. Would that more Christians would cease judging other religions based on false witness and gossip.

 

[Spike~]

Well damn, if Hitler wasn't so big on the killing of my ppl, I'ld vote for him.

 

[audramray]

I've seen the email before. Interesting scenarios. Interesting outcome.

 

[katherinethegreat]

adolf hitler never had a wife until he died so he couldn't have cheated on her

 

[mpshiel]

The problem with choosing "leaders" is that often the time chooses the leader. I think probably the kindest, gentlest most compassionate president the US has ever had was Carter. But while in a peaceful world he may have been a great ruler, wartime favors the nutcases...and Churchill was a nutcase, Franklin less so, Stalin more so and the Canadian leader M. King consulted the spirits and got advice from his dog during the war.

As Lincoln pointed out, in War (Which is when people tend to see the leaders as "great"), the personal habits of the person are secondary to the effectiveness of them. When chastised over Grant's drinking he suggested sending the rest of the commanders alcohol in order to improve them.

Of course you did miss out a few things about Hitlers past didn't you. If you had put down:

Frustrated War Vet, homeless, failed artist, hangs out in beer halls with political radicals and walks with a chip on his shoulder convinced if he hadn't been "stabbed in the back" things would be better.

I don't know how many would have voted for him.

 

[Kathy]

adolf hitler never had a wife until he died so he couldn't have cheated on her

Thats right! Don't think they ever left the bunker that they died in,I think they were married then commited suicide together in the bunker...He didn't have enough time.....

 

[Diakonos]

The problem with choosing "leaders" is that often the time chooses the leader. I think probably the kindest, gentlest most compassionate president the US has ever had was Carter. But while in a peaceful world he may have been a great ruler, wartime favors the nutcases...and Churchill was a nutcase, Franklin less so, Stalin more so and the Canadian leader M. King consulted the spirits and got advice from his dog during the war.

As Lincoln pointed out, in War (Which is when people tend to see the leaders as "great"), the personal habits of the person are secondary to the effectiveness of them. When chastised over Grant's drinking he suggested sending the rest of the commanders alcohol in order to improve them.

Of course you did miss out a few things about Hitlers past didn't you. If you had put down:

Frustrated War Vet, homeless, failed artist, hangs out in beer halls with political radicals and walks with a chip on his shoulder convinced if he hadn't been "stabbed in the back" things would be better.

I don't know how many would have voted for him.

You make a valid point.

 

[caitlincares]

I would never ever suggest anybody have an abortion for any reason.
That would be killing in my eyes which is wrong.
Look at my favorite scripture below.
God is in control. We should not be messing around with his decisions.
God does not give anyone more than they can handle.
And who better than Him to know what we can handle.

 

[Mr. Fields]

I would never ever suggest anybody have an abortion for any reason.
That would be killing in my eyes which is wrong.
Look at my favorite scripture below.
God is in control. We should not be messing around with his decisions.
God does not give anyone more than they can handle.
And who better than Him to know what we can handle.

This is a serious question...

I have heard many times Christians say that God will never tell you to do anything that goes against his word. Even a quick study of the OT reveals several places where God not only allows, but commands killing. How do you reconcile that?

 

[caitlincares]

I simply do not need to reconcile it.
I believe what I believe and do not have to prove it to anyone.

We are no longer living in the old testament.
Murder is wrong.

 

[Mr. Fields]

I simply do not need to reconcile it.
I believe what I believe and do not have to prove it to anyone.

We are no longer living in the old testament.
Murder is wrong.

I'm not asking you to prove anything, but you answered my question. Thanks.

 

[msjones21]

Question #1- I would abort, no questions asked. (and I already knew that was the Beethoven scenario before I even responded. I've heard that silly analogy in the abortion debate more than once)

Question #2- I would vote for candidate A. He sounds like a man whose right up my ally.

 

[msjones21]

God does not give anyone more than they can handle.
And who better than Him to know what we can handle.

Not everyone belives in your god so why should we follow your god's rules and regulations?

 

[Surprised by joy]

If you knew a woman who was pregnant, who had

8 kids already, three who were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally

retarded, and she had syphilis,would you recommend that she have an

abortion?

To murder (in the womb) a child likely to be deaf, blind, or mentally retarded, is the same as euthanasia, and would soon lead to killing any child that looked to be less than "perfect".

I know a deaf family, a blind girl, and a mentally handicapped/schizophrenic man, and I know that Jesus died for each of them personally. If I were that very mother, I would not abort my child. Every child is a beautiful person. So no, that is not a hard question.

It is time to elect a new world leader, and only your vote counts. Here

are the facts about the three candidates.



Candidate A.

Associates with crooked politicians, and consults with astrologist. He's

had two mistresses. He also chain smokes and drinks 8 to 10 martinis a day.

Candidate B.

He was kicked out of office twice, sleeps until noon, used opium in college

and drinks a quart of whiskey every evening.

Candidate C.

He is a decorated war hero. He's a vegetarian, doesn't smoke, drinks an

occasional beer and never cheated on his wife.



Which of these candidates would be your choice? Decide first... no peeking, then scroll down for the response.

That is obviously a trick question, and is not in fact valid. You see, before voting on a leader, anyone has the ability to research more than those basic facts about a person. With just those facts, I would have voted C. Knowing that one was a mass murderer, however, I would have voted either A or B. Maybe even not voted at all.

And don't say that this would be before Hitler became a mass murderer, when people "couldn't tell" who he was. He was subtly sinister long before he became overtly so. Anyone who could think would shy at his coercing Jews into wearing yellow stars. He showed other signs, such as taking over the Church. So no, that is not a hard question either.

And Finally, can you imagine working for a company that has a little more than 500 employees and has the following statistics:

* 29 have been accused of spousal abuse

* 7 have been arrested for fraud

* 19 have been accused of writing bad checks

* 117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses

* 3 have done time for assault

* 71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit

* 14 have been arrested on drug-related charges

* 8 have been arrested for shoplifting

* 21 are currently defendants in lawsuits

* 84 have been arrested for drunk driving in the last year...

Can you guess which organization this is?

Give up yet?
It's the 535 members of the United States Congress.

I believe that the American people know that many high officials in the government are corrupt. I worry about whether they care.
However, I don't think that is your point. If so, what is?

God bless,
-- Surprised.

 

[Surprised by joy]

msjones21: You should follow "our" God's rules because He is the *one* *true* God. And He is not our God, as if we could own Him in some way. We are His people. He owns us.

Look at it this way. Let us assume, for the petty sake of being logical, that the existance of any god does not hinge on your, or our, belief. In that case, if the God of the Bible is in fact the one true God, then you should follow His rules. We believe that He is the one true God. Therefore it is logical for us to say that you should follow His rules.