2 Thessalonians 2

Status
Not open for further replies.

2Timothy2

Rangers Lead the Way
Aug 20, 2004
2,655
147
56
Texas
✟3,603.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
In this chapter, Paul speaks of the one who restrains. My question is this, what is being restrained? I think determining that would be necessary to understanding who/what is doing the restraining. So, if you would, try not to base your response on who/what you believe the restrainer is. What does the Bible say about this restraining?

I hope this will not go off on a discussion for the identity of the restrainer or on an eschatalogical tangent. I know this is what the chapter is talking about, but my question is concerning what is being restrained only. Thanks.
 

2Timothy2

Rangers Lead the Way
Aug 20, 2004
2,655
147
56
Texas
✟3,603.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Yeah, I've heards these before, but I see no Scriptural basis for them. They just seem to be ideas people come up with outside of the Bible. When Paul says " and now you know what restrains" it would seem to me that it must be taught somewhere in Scripture. I've also heard the position that sin is being restrained, but, again, I see no Scripture supporting this position either. :scratch:

Does it make sense that what is being restrained is the revelation of the man of sin? That he is being kept off the stage of history until the appointed time?
 
Upvote 0

Rafael

Only time enough for love
Jul 25, 2002
2,570
319
73
Midwest
Visit site
✟6,445.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Only God restrains evil, and while the Church is on earth, it is supposed to have the power to bind and loose the spirits if authority is taken and lives are lived under the Spirit's guidance.
Satan is bound in chains for a thousand years at some point, but also has to ask permission of God while walking to and fro seeking whom he may devour. He is the prince of the power of the air, having power over demonic spirits who have princely powers over areas of the world, as Daniels prayer was hindered by the Prince of Persia.
The Bible says that it is not flesh and blood that fight against, but principalities and powers in high places - so then we are to put on the full armour of God so that we may be able to stand against the devil and his firely darts. When the time of grace nears and end, satans final work will be to lead the nations into Armageddon as the beast or dragon byhis deception and false signs and miracles.

Eph 6:12 For we are not fighting against people made of flesh and blood, but against the evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against those mighty powers of darkness who rule this world, and against wicked spirits in the heavenly realms.

Eph 2:2 You used to live just like the rest of the world, full of sin, obeying Satan, the mighty prince of the power of the air. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God.

Job 2:2 "Where have you come from?" the LORD asked Satan. And Satan answered the LORD, "I have been going back and forth across the earth, watching everything that’s going on."

2Co 4:4 Satan, the god of this evil world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe, so they are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News that is shining upon them. They don’t understand the message we preach about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.

Eph 1:3 ¶ How we praise God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms because we belong to Christ.
 
Upvote 0

filosofer

Senior Veteran
Feb 8, 2002
4,752
290
Visit site
✟6,913.00
Faith
Lutheran
KAI NUN TO KATEXON OIDATE

And now that restrain you know.

=================

It depends on how one understands the direct object of the verb (there is none in the Greek).

1. No direct object with the verb KATEXON (there is none in the Greek):

"And now you know what is restraining..." (NKJV)


2. Direct object of the verb is supplied, "him":

"And now you know what is restraining him..." (ESV, so also NAS, NET, NIV, NJB, GW, NRSV, etc.)

If the approach of #2 is taken, then the pronoun "him" refers the "man of lawlessness" (v. 3)
 
Upvote 0

2Timothy2

Rangers Lead the Way
Aug 20, 2004
2,655
147
56
Texas
✟3,603.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
filosofer said:
KAI NUN TO KATEXON OIDATE

And now that restrain you know.

=================

It depends on how one understands the direct object of the verb (there is none in the Greek).

1. No direct object with the verb KATEXON (there is none in the Greek):

"And now you know what is restraining..." (NKJV)


2. Direct object of the verb is supplied, "him":

"And now you know what is restraining him..." (ESV, so also NAS, NET, NIV, NJB, GW, NRSV, etc.)

If the approach of #2 is taken, then the pronoun "him" refers the "man of lawlessness" (v. 3)
Hmm, food for thought. I've only just begun to study Greek, so, I am in no position to agree or disagree with what you say. It would seem though that the idea of the restrainer restraining sin is simply not supported in this text. It must be something or someone else. I need to give this some more consideration. Thaks for the responses.
 
Upvote 0
V

Visionary48

Guest
Theophorus said:
Sorry I misread the question, I answered with who or what is doing the restraining, yes what is being restrained is the man of sin/the son of perdition.
I would agree with Theophorus - that the antichrist, the man of sin is what is being restrained. It seems to me that the "Mystery of Iniquity" in 2 Thess 2:7 is the same person as the man of sin in 2 Thess 2:3 below. I understand a mystery to be something that has not yet been revealed - and while 1 John says the spirit of anti christ is already in the world, it will culminate in the revealing of the Son of Perdition, the man of sin which is also referred to in Daniel 11:21 when he appears.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for thatdayshallnotcome, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth willlet, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Hope this helps!

:wave: God bless.
 
Upvote 0

@@Paul@@

The Key that Fits:Acts 28
Mar 24, 2004
3,050
72
53
Seattle
✟11,081.00
Faith
Baptist
2Timothy2 said:
Does it make sense that what is being restrained is the revelation of the man of sin? That he is being kept off the stage of history until the appointed time?
Yes exactly... No only the man of sin, His entire kingdom.

That kingdom began to be seen at Babel > But of course we know that was a little too early for Satan to have his one world government set up. So God destroyed by confusing the tongues and scattered the people (you can't have a one world goverment if everyone speaks a different language). We can also see kingdom springing up in Babylon; of course that system went into Mystery form (Mystery Babylon) and awaits the proper time, appointed by God to be revealed to the world - during the tribulation.

Notice in Daniel what the Angel said to him as to why he (the angel) was delayed in coming to answer his prayer.
Dan 10:12-13 KJV Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words. (13) But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.​

These "kings of Persia" can not be a reference to any MAN for no man could withstand an Angel for 21 days!!

Any thoughts?? :)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Rafael

Only time enough for love
Jul 25, 2002
2,570
319
73
Midwest
Visit site
✟6,445.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
2Timothy2 said:
OK, I'm not sure what that does to answer my question, though. All of what you said is true, but does not address my question.
what is being restrained?
The devil, demons under his command, and the children of lawlessness. I thought those scriptures spoke for themselves, as there is only one other spirtual power other than God. The spirit we receive from God is powerful only through His own Spirit, so that leaves these two powers - (principalities and powers in high places) - God (good) and the devil (evil).
 
Upvote 0

2Timothy2

Rangers Lead the Way
Aug 20, 2004
2,655
147
56
Texas
✟3,603.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Paul, that is my reasoning on this. It is just that I keep hearing respectable preachers and teachers saying "only God restrains evil, so the restrainer must be the Holy Spirit", similar to Raphe's post. There is just no support for this interpretation in this passage.

I think Daniel 10-12 help in understanding this passage.

As far as mystery, I think a mystery is a truth that requires initiation/training to understand, and so it is hidden or not revealed except to the initiated. Those that Jesus and Paul revealed, they revealed by teaching others about the truths. And since they are truth, they didn't come into being when revealed, just our understanding has then been enlightened.

Thoughts? I may not be saying that very well.
 
Upvote 0

2Timothy2

Rangers Lead the Way
Aug 20, 2004
2,655
147
56
Texas
✟3,603.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
raphe said:
The devil, demons under his command, and the children of lawlessness. I thought those scriptures spoke for themselves, as there is only one other spirtual power other than God. The spirit we receive from God is powerful only through His own Spirit, so that leaves these two powers - (principalities and powers in high places) - God (good) and the devil (evil).
But where in this passage does it speak of the devil, his demons or the children of lawlessness. Not until much later. This passage is speaking of the man of lawlessness and his revealing. This is what is being restrained, not sin in general.
 
Upvote 0

@@Paul@@

The Key that Fits:Acts 28
Mar 24, 2004
3,050
72
53
Seattle
✟11,081.00
Faith
Baptist
2Timothy2 said:
Paul, that is my reasoning on this. It is just that I keep hearing respectable preachers and teachers saying "only God restrains evil, so the restrainer must be the Holy Spirit", similar to Raphe's post. There is just no support for this interpretation in this passage.

I think Daniel 10-12 help in understanding this passage.

As far as mystery, I think a mystery is a truth that requires initiation/training to understand, and so it is hidden or not revealed except to the initiated. Those that Jesus and Paul revealed, they revealed by teaching others about the truths. And since they are truth, they didn't come into being when revealed, just our understanding has then been enlightened.

Thoughts? I may not be saying that very well.
Now, by saying Mystery Babylon i am referrning to the title given it in Revelation > which I believe is hidden AND will not be revealed until the proper time. So i agree a mystery is a hidden truth; however, in this case it's a hidden LIE. The great lie: "you shall be as a god".

Babylonialism is Baal worship and since the fall of the literal Babylon it (the religion) has gone "underground". We can see it rearing it's ugly head in the "new age religions", clearly any eastern religion, wicca, gnostism... etc. etx... We await a time when they will all be joined together into one religion to fool the world.

How's that? :)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
I

In Christ Forever

Guest
@@Paul@@ said:
Now, by saying Mystery Babylon i am referrning to the title given it in Revelation > which I believe is hidden AND will not be revealed until the proper time. So i agree a mystery is a hidden truth; however, in this case it's a hidden LIE. The great lie: "you shall be as a god".

Babylonialism is Baal worship and since the fall of the literal Babylon it (the religion) has gone "underground". We can see it rearing it's ugly head in the "new age religions", clearly any eastern religion, wicca, gnostism... etc. etx... We await a time when they will all be joined together into one religion to fool the world.

How's that? :)
Gone underground and is "hidden"? One only has to look at how God and Christ were condemning the priest and rulers of Jerusalem and comparing them to "BABYLON". :eek:
I see 2 babylons in revelation, one physical [beast of the sea]under the roman empire and gentile] the other spiritual "mystery" babylon [beat of the earth/Jerusalem]. And just like Jerusalem was invaded by the King of babylon in the OT, so they are again invaded and destroyed by the gentile kings of the NORTH:

jerem 11: 12 "Then the cities of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem will go and cry out to the gods to whom they offer incense, but they will not save them at all in the time of their trouble. 13 "For [according to] the number of your cities were your gods, O Judah; and [according to] the number of the streets of Jerusalem you have set up altars to [that] shameful thing, altars to burn incense to Baal. 14 " So do not pray for this people, or lift up a cry or prayer for them; for I will not hear [them] in the time that they cry out to Me because of their trouble.

Jeremiah 17:1 "The sin of Judah [is] written with a pen of iron; With the point of a diamond [it is] engraved On the tablet of their heart, And on the horns of your altars, 2 While their children remember Their altars and their wooden images By the green trees on the high hills. 3 O My mountain in the field, I will give as plunder your wealth, all your treasures, [And] your high places of sin within all your borders.3 O My mountain in the field, I will give as plunder your wealth, all your treasures, [And] your high places of sin within all your borders. 4 And you, even yourself, Shall let go of your heritage which I gave you; And I will cause you to serve your enemies In the land which you do not know; For you have kindled a fire in My anger [which] shall burn forever."
 
Upvote 0

visionary

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.
Site Supporter
Mar 25, 2004
56,927
8,040
✟575,808.44
Faith
Messianic
2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Paul knew that in the last days many thing will come to shake the foundation of what we believe. He did not want us to be fooled by any of it. We are to search the scripture to see if it is so.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

One thing we can say about this verse, it is an admonishment, to not look for the Lord's coming until everything has been revealed....the mystery is finished.


4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

We know that this has yet to occur, not that there has not and are not those who are sitting on a throne saying that they are the god on earth in one form or fashion. I believe that there will be not a man but the devil himself as great imitation of Jesus Christ himself. We have all looked forward to that moment. So this admonishment to not look until the evil one is revealed is important and the climax will be when the great imitator goes to sit in the temple and declare himself to be god.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

I think we are the ones that are withholding Satan from revealing himself. He has to get us all under the delusion that Jesus will come before the wrath, before tribulation. He needs us to believe Jesus doesn't need to come in the flesh. He needs for us to down play the importance of knowing scripture, which is our manual on being able to tell the difference. He needs to create a situation where he will have the whole world caught up in such terrible situations, that they are willing to get under one government system, sell our souls for peace. When all that is accomplished, then there will be no restraint. We will have invited him in.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Then the second coming can happen, for there is nothing left but for the Lord to come and rescue the apples of His eyes.

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
This is the group that is going to join forces with the deceive, you know might in numbers, like the sand of the sea, all lemmins running with the crowd and not seeing where this is headed.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Now are you not thankful to be holding in your hands, the manual that will show you all these things through the Holy Spirit. It is like one of those things that you would get in the cereal box, where the secret message was not revealed unless you had the read film Dr. Sherlock's magnifying glass. Then the words hidden will become clear. SO it is with us today. Only the Holy Spirit can reveal to you what the scriptures is saying. IT is by His leading and guidance that we will learn the truth. It will lead us not the way of the world, but away from everything you thought is right so far. Our dimentional understanding is flat and without life. The words do not lift off the page and speak to your heart. When they do, it is the Lord leading, it will be away from what everyone around you is saying and believing. In your heart, God has given you an installment, if you follow this, you will learn more and slowly be lead into all truth. If you can not follow Him in these seemingly little things, how can he trust you will the larger matters. You are to be changed with the transforming and renewing of your mind by the Word.

15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the (biblical) traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, 17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

2Timothy2

Rangers Lead the Way
Aug 20, 2004
2,655
147
56
Texas
✟3,603.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
We're getting away from the original question: what or who is being restrained.


Now, visionary, you say it is the devil himself that is being restrained? That doesn't seem to gel with verse 3 and 9. 'Man of lawlessness' and 'whose coming is after the working of Satan' seem to indicate a man.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.