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Only if John had left the word "abiding" out of the verse.Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
That would be the end of OSAS!
JLB
So, are you saying that what I said is "a phrase of rebellion and deafness" then??????This phrase is used as a phrase of rebellion and deafness.
So, again, it seems to me that commands to love, do and obey being interpreted as believing in Him is "logical rubbish"???????Whenever Jesus commands to love, to do, to obey it is interpreted that He meant to believe in Him, which is just logical rubbish.
Who are you referring to here? I've never said that.You notice the difference because when someone says we are commanded to love each other as Jesus loved us, the reply is just to believe Jesus.
Why do you insist on bringing up these "they" idiots. Let's just focus on what I am saying, relative to what you are saying, ok?They say Jesus said these things to Jews so we can ignore it, because it was said to just make them feel condemned, so they would be driven more to rely on the cross and His death and resurrection.
Who cares about "their world"?The idea we are given a new heart which is healed, cleansed and capable of loving brothers and sisters in Christ is so far from their thinking it is like a alien world.
Again, who cares "when people say..."????So when people say, I am a sheep of Christ, but I ignore His commands and what He tells me to do, they are lying, because Jesus said His sheep listen to Him and obey His commands, no excuses, no side steps, just obey.
Please quit talking about the "they", who are idiots.So not wonder there is such spiritual emptiness from such as these who can only talk about security because that is literally all they have, or the delusion of security because Jesus will declare, I never knew you.
OK, please delineate Jesus' "life saving commands", please. And with Scripture.Why am I so confident of this truth, because Jesus said that is what will happen with those who are evil doers, who claim great spiritual works yet do not build their house upon the rock and obey His life saving commands.
I have. You have no discernment.
It's the word "abiding" that you seem to be totally incapable of discerning.
Like I just said in my previous post to you, if John had left that word OUT of the verse, you would have a point. But because he put that word IN, you don't. But you have no discernment to understand why the word is important and what it means.
In fact, it seems to me you don't want to know what it means.
I already did, and clearly. Why don't you address my response?
He doesn't. Pretty simple, really. But what John DIDN'T say was that those who hate their brother don't have internal life IN them. Now, that would support your theory.
But, if John had left out "abiding", then he would have been in direct opposition to what Jesus said in John 10:28.
None of which you have been able to discern spiritually.
Please quit talking about the "they", who are idiots.
btw, why do you fail to understand such a simple verse as John 10:28 and believe that all recipients of eternal life shall never perish?
This describes your posts perfectly.More opinion and denying what the scripture so plainly says.
You are wrong by trying to pin some outlandish claims from a group of idiots that I do NOT support.Hi Free,
Let me put what I am addressing into context. You are part of a group, whether you acknowledge it or not, who have become very influential in the christian world.
Does John 10:28 tell us that recipients of eternal life shall never perish, or not?The fruit of the position is simple, not the fruits of the Spirit but of wanting a particular emphasis which is not pushed by Jesus, and is against the tenor of His sharing.
Do you have any idea why Jesus asked that question? Do you really think the Bible teaches that obeying the Law (commandments) will get anyone into heaven?"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
Matthew 19:17
This isn't about how to get saved or how to stay saved. It's about fellowship, obviously.If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.
John 15:10
Are you still talking aout the idiots that you have been talking about?So my friend, are those who share similarly to yourself your friends in Jesus, or are they sheep of a different fold?
By listening to everything and seeing the difference?And if they preach what you preach how can I tell the difference?
Why don't you see the absolute certainty of eternal security in John 10:28??If I was to take this further, you Free have claimed I am calling Jesus a liar by not believing He spoke of absolute certainty of salvation of everyone who proclaims faith in Him.
To even disbelieve what Jesus said so clearly is extreme.Even to say such a thing is so extreme and abrasive.
Those who don't believe in eternal security AFTER being shown the clear words of Jesus CANNOT be walking in the Spirit.And it suggests to me you have no recognition that I walk in the Spirit or have fear of judging a fellow brother in the Lord.
The ones you have described who also believe in OSAS are just that. I condemn their claims that you have ascribed to them.It is typified by describing believers as idiots.
But Jesus tells us who His sheep are.My position on this is simple, His sheep shall never perish or fall away.
But who are His sheep, only He truly knows.
All we're supposed to do is give others the gospel. If they have received and believed it, they will no doubt tell you. But if they haven't, then whatever they say should make clear that they need to hear it.And what if I am conversing with someone who is not His sheep, but convinced it is his mission to drum into me some idea that they cannot let go.
It seems you are way to distractible. For ANY cult, they need to hear the gospel, not get into a discussion about any other doctrine, much less eternal security.It reminds me of a cult, which centers around one idea, among the vast set of issues of life and faith, because they cannot let it go.
No, our "mission, spoken word, intent and vision" is to preach the gospel, which is in love. And the only way one can "tell a lot of things" is to study the Bible and gain knowledge of God's Word.How do I know? Because love is our heart, our mission, our spoken word, our intent, our vision and the Kingdom of God, spoken in righteousness and purity, from a pure heart, founded on truth and Gods word. That is how you can tell a lot of things.
So, just what is the "what of your truth" regarding one's security?The how often shows the what of our truth and how deep it is in our souls. And to those who regard this as empty sharing, enough said, and God bless you in whatever way you walk, I wish you well.
This describes your posts perfectly.
Jesus was clear that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. That means once saved, always saved.
But you're just a denier.
Please quit lying. I've quoted John 10:28 many times, which you just ignore.No scripture here, just mans opinion.
Again, please quit lying. I have explained that verse many times, but which you just continue to ignore.Here is my scripture that I quote each time and you ignore.
Are you really ignorant of the fact that the word "abiding" cannot mean "in", since John used that word as well?Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
But John NEVER said this. That is your man-made opinion only.Born again Christians who hate, no longer have eternal life.
This isn't about how to get saved or how to stay saved. It's about fellowship, obviously.
Please quit lying. I've quoted John 10:28 many times, which you just ignore.
Again, please quit lying. I have explained that verse many times, but which you just continue to ignore.
Are you really ignorant of the fact that the word "abiding" cannot mean "in", since John used that word as well?
Here are 2 statements:
1. no murderer has eternal life IN him
2. no murderer has eternal life abiding in him
Those who read both statements as being EQUAL are in sad shape, because they are NOT equal.
If John meant that those who murder do NOT have eternal life IN them, he wouldn't have needed to add the word "abiding".
He would have just used #1 above to communicate that. But since he included the word "abiding", obviously he meant something else.
So, if #1 was his meaning, why would he include "abiding"? It just becomes an unnecessary word.
But John NEVER said this. That is your man-made opinion only.
And if Christians lose eternal life by hating their brothers, then Jesus couldn't have said what John recorded Him to have said in John 10:28, about recipients of eternal life never perishing.
If your man-made opinions were correct, Jesus would have had to say, instead:
"I give them eternal life, and AS LONG AS THEY DON'T HATE THEIR BROTHERS, they shall never perish"
or this:
"I give them eternal life and IF THEY DON'T HATE THEIR BROTHERS they shall never perish"
But we know what He said, and said very plainly, so that even grade school children can understand what He meant.
Because of John 10:28, we know that Christians shall never perish because of what He did ad promises.
He gives eternal life to whoever believes in Him.
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.
1 John 5:13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
And, just in case you want to abuse the Greek present tense,
1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
That's as PAST TENSE as it gets.
So, on the basis of having believed in Christ, Jesus GIVES the believer eternal life.
So, John 10:28 seals the deal. Those given eternal life shall never perish.
And you simply don't believe what Jesus says.
Once again I provide verses that actually SAY what I believe and claim, unlike you and your man-made opinions.
If any of the verses I quote don't mean what I believe they mean, how come you've even attempted to explain what my verses do mean?
I sure don't have a problem explaining what the verses you quote mean.
Didn't you note (or follow) the context of what i said?This sentence defines the problem between our perspectives.
Every negative sentiment Jesus displays is interpreted not as a rejection or
a fundamental failure, but as merely a time of not getting on, but everything
is ok.
Are you ignoring, or even denying the reality that fellowship with the Lord requires certain things?Now I agree there is an aspect of this. Why did King David stay Gods chosen even after Bathsheba, because he repented when confronted.
When Peter was told he would deny Jesus 3 times, he was given the hope that
faith held him, and he would be forgiven if he came back knowing Jesus's heart.
But sinful behaviour destroys our trust that God is love, that He will accept us,
that forgiveness has value or will be applied.
No, we don't, unless we study the Bible and gain knowledge.To summarise our language is about our hearts, our repentance, our walk
and our approach. We alone know what that is, and its difficulties.
You got that right!! I am totally biased by what the Bible says. Absolutely. Thanks for noticing where my biases are.Your interpretation of eternal life abiding in someone is very biased.
It seems that you didn't read anything about what I posted to JLB.If I abide somewhere, there is a time period about when I start, when I am present and when it ends.
In 1 John 3:15
Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
John appears to be talking in the present tense. Hatred and Gods love in the heart are incompatible. So whatever people might think of others, if they hate, they do not know God or eternal life.
Would the staff (who participates in development) NOT believe in what they develop?I had a thought. I am a manager of a software company.
I tell my staff to believe in the software we are going to develop.
Oh, you mean knowledge.I tell them that they need to code the software according the specifications.
Why would you tell them that? And Jesus told people what they "have to do" to have salvation/eternal life. Believe in Him.I tell them that believing in the software is all they have to do.
With such guidance, I would recommend that you fire yourself as well.After I week I come back to them and ask them how they are doing.
They say, I said believing in the software is all they had to do, so that is all they have done, they believe the software will be fantastic.
So I fire them all.
Your comparison isn't even close to the Bible. Not in any way.It is really that simple.
I wonder why you left out how to be saved? Is that not on your list of what Jesus taught?Jesus told us how to live, in detail, what is sin what is good works, what is love, what is sacrifice, what is the Kingdom.
For salvation, it IS all about belief in Jesus. And nothing else.Yet some teachers think it is all about belief in Jesus, rather than because Jesus is the Son, we know what we need to do.
Johnny's mommy told him about Jesus when he was 4 years old.. and he genuinely believed. But for the rest of his life he lived like a child of hell... And only used the name of God as a curse word. He hated God and the gospel and taught others to do the same. According to your theology, Johnny gets a free ticket into heaven...an idea that is refuted by pretty much the whole Bible, which supposes that if a person truly believes, he will act like it to some degree or another. Your theology is silly.2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
This verse states in very clear and plain words that condemnation is for everyone who has not believed the gospel.
The words "have not believed" is in the aorist tense; meaning believed in a point of time. Past time.
The Arminian claim that one must continue to believe in order to avoid hell (losing salvation) is refuted by this verse. If that claim were true, Paul would have written it this way:
"so that all will be condemned who do not continue to believe the truth".
So the aorist tense once again refutes the claim of Arminians.
In fact, 2 Thess 2:12 parallels both of these verses:
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Here's how: Jn 5:24 says those who believe "will not be judged/condemned".
John 10:28 says recipients "of eternal life (believers) shall never perish".
It will be interesting and instructive to see how Arminians, if any do, will respond to this thread.
I said:
"This isn't about how to get saved or how to stay saved. It's about fellowship, obviously."
Didn't you note (or follow) the context of what i said?
Are you ignoring, or even denying the reality that fellowship with the Lord requires certain things?
No, we don't, unless we study the Bible and gain knowledge.
It seems all you want to talk about is "love". Do you understand how the Bible defines love? I doubt it, from your posts.
Love is not an emotion in the biblical definition. It's not about FEELINGS, but is about ACTION.
Biblical love is patience and kindness. Those are actions, not emotions.
Do you agree?
Please quit lying. I've quoted John 10:28 many times, which you just ignore.
Again, please quit lying. I have explained that verse many times, but which you just continue to ignore.
Are you really ignorant of the fact that the word "abiding" cannot mean "in", since John used that word as well?
Here are 2 statements:
1. no murderer has eternal life IN him
2. no murderer has eternal life abiding in him
Those who read both statements as being EQUAL are in sad shape, because they are NOT equal.
If John meant that those who murder do NOT have eternal life IN them, he wouldn't have needed to add the word "abiding".
He would have just used #1 above to communicate that. But since he included the word "abiding", obviously he meant something else.
So, if #1 was his meaning, why would he include "abiding"? It just becomes an unnecessary word.
But John NEVER said this. That is your man-made opinion only.
And if Christians lose eternal life by hating their brothers, then Jesus couldn't have said what John recorded Him to have said in John 10:28, about recipients of eternal life never perishing.
If your man-made opinions were correct, Jesus would have had to say, instead:
"I give them eternal life, and AS LONG AS THEY DON'T HATE THEIR BROTHERS, they shall never perish"
or this:
"I give them eternal life and IF THEY DON'T HATE THEIR BROTHERS they shall never perish"
But we know what He said, and said very plainly, so that even grade school children can understand what He meant.
Because of John 10:28, we know that Christians shall never perish because of what He did ad promises.
He gives eternal life to whoever believes in Him.
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.
1 John 5:13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
And, just in case you want to abuse the Greek present tense,
1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
That's as PAST TENSE as it gets.
So, on the basis of having believed in Christ, Jesus GIVES the believer eternal life.
So, John 10:28 seals the deal. Those given eternal life shall never perish.
And you simply don't believe what Jesus says.
Once again I provide verses that actually SAY what I believe and claim, unlike you and your man-made opinions.
If any of the verses I quote don't mean what I believe they mean, how come you've even attempted to explain what my verses do mean?
I sure don't have a problem explaining what the verses you quote mean.
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