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As soon as you explain how eternal life isn't given until "the judgment", which would obviously be AFTER one dies physically, but also how a brother who doesn't hate his brother HAS eternal life abiding in him.Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
Please explain how a brother still has eternal life in him who hates his brother.
JLB
Took the wind out of your sails or something?Grace is the Holy Spirit: The Spirit of Grace.
Grace is the power to obey.
And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
1 John 3:3
JLB
The interesting part is how you have to edit out “but delighted in sin” to come to your conclusion. This shows an unwillingness to believe the truth.2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
This verse states in very clear and plain words that condemnation is for everyone who has not believed the gospel.
The words "have not believed" is in the aorist tense; meaning believed in a point of time. Past time.
The Arminian claim that one must continue to believe in order to avoid hell (losing salvation) is refuted by this verse. If that claim were true, Paul would have written it this way:
"so that all will be condemned who do not continue to believe the truth".
So the aorist tense once again refutes the claim of Arminians.
In fact, 2 Thess 2:12 parallels both of these verses:
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Here's how: Jn 5:24 says those who believe "will not be judged/condemned".
John 10:28 says recipients "of eternal life (believers) shall never perish".
It will be interesting and instructive to see how Arminians, if any do, will respond to this thread.
How did I leave out any part of the verse? I have cited the verse (which leaves nothing out) and I have quoted the whole verse, which leaves nothing out. Please advise.The interesting part is how you have to edit out “but delighted in sin” to come to your conclusion. This shows an unwillingness to believe the truth.
If one ceases believing, they are called “fallen away from the faith” and are lost. Your theology is why you edit out the bit that doesn’t fit.How did I leave out any part of the verse? I have cited the verse (which leaves nothing out) and I have quoted the whole verse, which leaves nothing out. Please advise.
The conclusion of the verse is about who will be condemned. It is those who have NOT BELIEVED. That's the sole issue in whether one lives with God in eternity or spends eternity in the lake of fire.
There are confused believers who wrongly think that if a believer ever ceases to believe, which is what Jesus described the second soil in the parable, per Luke 8:13, they simply resort back to the same status as every other unbeliever who never believed.
But this is impossible. God changes people when they believe. They are described as having been born again, regenerated, and no verse describes that as being undone.
Can you or anyone else become un-born from your parents? Of course not. It's no different with our spiritual birth.
And 2 Thess 2:12 prevents anyone from claiming that a "former believer" is just an unbeliever, because a former believer HAS (at one time) believed and is therefore not in view of who will be condemned.
John 3:18 makes the same point - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
Took the wind out of your sails or something?
I'm well aware of that concept, but there is no support for such an idea in Scripture. Jesus Himself noted some who "believed for a while, and in time of temptation/testing, fell away". There is no reason to assume He was saying "fell away from their salvation". The wording is clear that they fell away from what they believed, since they believed "for a while". That's all.If one ceases believing, they are called “fallen away from the faith” and are lost.
Again, I didn't do that. And I asked HOW I did that from your charge, and all you do is repeat yourself.Your theology is why you edit out the bit that doesn’t fit.
This has no bearing or relevance on my point. Which you seem not to understand.The part you left in the verse but edited out of the discussion is the MEASURE of “not or no longer believing” is delighting in doing sin. This you leave out.
No, you are just rather confused. Your seemingly definition of what "enjoys sin" means is not supported in Scripture. Do you really think that anyone, believer or unbeliever, chooses to do (sin) what they don't enjoy? That doesn't even make sense.So however you decide to define believing, once believed or whatever, as soon as anyone enjoys sin, they no longer or never believed. That is, they are lost.
Your claim is merely an opinion and not supported from Scripture.So if a person enjoys slander or is jealous or tells untruths about others, they enjoy sin and don’t believe.
Physically, of course. Spiritually, NEVER.Now that which is born can die.
Go ahead and just try to lose eternal life. Rom 6:23 describes eternal life as a gift of God. Rom 11:29 says that God's gifts are irrevocable.Gifts given can be lost.
Sure. Any physical seal. But NOT the Holy Spirit Himself. Eph 1:13,14 doesn't permit your opinion to be correct.Seals can be broken.
We, of course, are free to cease to believe. But there are NO verses that we even have the power to give back, lose, forfeit, etc our salvation.No where does God promise to change you such that you cannot ever decide to walk away. No chance. No such promise.
Yes, He did say that. And we KNOW that He never meant falling away from (losing) salvation. John 10:28 doesn't permit such a claim.Jesus warned his followers about the possibility of falling away. He even said at some point MANY would fall away from the faith and betray (sin against) others.
Please show me the Scripture. I've never seen any such verse.So I repeat, if a person enjoys any sin, they aren’t believing according to this scripture.
I recommend that you consult with a Greek lexicon and learn what the Greek word means. I'll tell you what it doesn't mean. What you think it means.Believing is not merely agreeing something is true as far as believing God is concerned.
In fact, no grace, no power. It's that simple. And your theology has no grace in it.No grace empowers me to obey.
Please square this claim with your previous claims that eternal life is given at 'the judgment". As it is, you're quite conflicted.If you believe a brother can hate his brother and still have eternal life, then please post the scripture that says so.
He says they will betray many. That is loving sin which means they are lost. You edit out and change what Jesus clearly says.I'm well aware of that concept, but there is no support for such an idea in Scripture. Jesus Himself noted some who "believed for a while, and in time of temptation/testing, fell away". There is no reason to assume He was saying "fell away from their salvation". The wording is clear that they fell away from what they believed, since they believed "for a while". That's all.
“He who endures toAnd there are no verses in Scripture that state that ceasing to believe results in ceasing to be saved.
Yes you do. All OSASers do because they have to in order to maintain a theology no one in the Bible promised.Again, I didn't do that. And I asked HOW I did that from your charge, and all you do is repeat yourself.
I did.Can you provide any explanation of how I "edited" out anything?
I understand it more deeply than you do.This has no bearing or relevance on my point. Which you seem not to understand.
They are described as those who love sin. Doesn’t matter if they once believed or not.Of course those who no longer believe will deligh in sin. And it doesn't change the fact that it is ONLY those who "have not believed" that will be condemned.
I read the whole Bible and don’t edit out bits as you do.Why are you ignoring those very clear words?
OSASrs believe if you once believed you can sin like the devil and go to heaven. They believe they have fire insurance.No grace empowers me to obey.
If you believe a brother can hate his brother and still have eternal life, then please post the scripture that says so.
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15
JLB
Sorry to say, but you're not making sense. To whom does your first sentence refer to by "they will betray"? And what verse does it come from?He says they will betray many. That is loving sin which means they are lost. You edit out and change what Jesus clearly says.
Could you please at least cite the verse you quote? And I will show you the ENTIRE context for this statement. It is about the Tribulation, which is a 7 year period of time, which means the statement referes to those IN the Tribulation, not the entire human race, or any other period of time.“He who endures to the will be saved.“ According to Jesus, being saved is future so there is no being saved before the end.
Ergo, your statement is directly in opposition to what Jesus and Peter said.Ergo, no one is for sure saved today.
Ergo, wrong again.Yes you do. All OSASers do because they have to in order to maintain a theology no one in the Bible promised.
It is apparent that you do not.I did. I understand it more deeply than you do.
Yes, unbelievers are described that way. But that is no reason to assume that loving sin are only those who never believed.They are described as those who love sin.
Your opinion here is refuted directly by Scripture.Doesn’t matter if they once believed or not.
You have yet to prove your claim that I "edit out" anything. Even after I've asked for such evidence.I read the whole Bible and don’t edit out bits as you do.
I know that offends you greatly. However, what we believe is what Jesus plainly said. That those who believe possess eternal life because He gives it to them, and they shall never perish. John 5:24, 10:28.OSASrs believe if you once believed you can sin like the devil and go to heaven.
No, we believe what Jesus said. All who have believed have eternal life and shall never perish.They believe they have fire insurance.
What about those who were not yet born when Paul wrote this? They could not have believed in the past, only in the future.The words "have not believed" is in the aorist tense; meaning believed in a point of time. Past time.
The same principle would apply. For everyone future to what Paul wrote, if they EVER believed, they will not be condemned.What about those who were not yet born when Paul wrote this? They could not have believed in the past, only in the future.
Our "judgment" is determined either at the point of believing in Christ or at our death.Perhaps the point in time referred to is your death when what you believe determines your judgment.
Jesus was very clear about WHEN one actually possesses the gift of eternal life:During your life it is not possible to know with certainty whether there even was an instant in which you chose to believe
Do you have a verse to support this claim?it may be spread out over a period of time, perhaps years.
So, It is grace that fails if you don't quite measure up when you die and face judgment?No grace empowers me to obey.
Easy. 1 John 3:15. If a brother hates his brother.......He is not ABIDING in the eternal he HAS.If you believe a brother can hate his brother and still have eternal life, then please post the scripture that says so.
And the loss of salvation crowd thinks that if they act like satan as an angel of light.........they will be saved.OSASrs believe if you once believed you can sin like the devil and go to heaven. They believe they have fire insurance.
Amen.In fact, no grace, no power. It's that simple. And your theology has no grace in it.
What is interesting is the fact that you have edited out "wickedness" for "sin."The interesting part is how you have to edit out “but delighted in sin” to come to your conclusion. This shows an unwillingness to believe the truth.
And we simply NEED to know this in order to advance in the life He has planned for us. Or to mature in Him.Unless and until that is understood, the believer who thinks salvation can be lost is simply under the delusion that they have some part in their salvation, more than simply receiving it.
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