2 Christian political parties

[chevyontheriver]

Nuclear weapons didn't exist back then, stop comparing the past to today.

Nuclear weapons exist now, and a nuclear war could destroy the planet, that is the reality
of the situation we face.

Aw, let's go ahead and try it. Full steam ahead. Bring on the apocalypse in the next 50 days.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

That is your own judgment, and lacks any biblical basis for it. My revelation I consider a revelation precisely because it does line up with both God's character and biblical principles.

On the other hand your judgmental spirit does not line up with God's character, and so I cannot consider your scrutiny divinely inspired. Otherwise, I would take your criticism seriously.

This is your defense in your previous claim that divine truth and biblical truth are apolitical? You are contradicting yourself, and God is not schizophrenic.

So, you'e saying that once God finished using a program that He now considers "irrelevant" He finally showed that all along His program had been "political" and "irrelevant?" The Bible says, "I the Lord do not change." Or, "Jesus Christ, yesterday, today, and forever."

I'm glad they have your permission! But they serve not because it agrees with your theology, but only despite your theology.

So instead of consulting the Holy Spirit a prospective initiator of a political party should consult your vision of what should not happen with respect to starting political parties? I think you're totally confused...

I do think you are being serious in your skepticism that God could have been inspiring me. But it just makes me think that you doubt God can operate through your own thoughts.

Then what is the source of your own inspiration--you, the Devil? If you consult the Bible what makes you think you're not interpreting the Bible by a wrong spirit? Do you really think that just quoting the Bible renders it truly spiritual?

I don't think so. The Devil can use the Bible in a very judgmental way. Consider how he used the Bible to condemn Jesus in the wilderness? You need to use both the Bible and the Spirit of God.

And so, it is important to recognize when a "revelation" is coming from the right spirit. But if you are so skeptical, I doubt you will be able to do this.

You say your revelation is Biblical, but you can't provide Bible verses where Jesus instructs his follower to be political or form political groups. I can cite verses after verse stating that the kingdom of God is not of this world. they are not my interpretation or revelation, they are Word of God.


Daniel 2:44 ESV

And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever,

John 18:36 ESV

Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”

Luke 17:20-21 ESV

Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”

John 15:19 ESV

If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.


Matthew 16:19 ESV

I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”


Romans 14:17 ESV

For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.


Unless you can provide biblical principles supported by specific Bible verses, your revelation and inspiration, as well as your claim of having the "spirit," remain your personal opinion.

 

[RandyPNW]

Agreed.

It will also be not good if it is imposed upon non-Christian individuals. Criminal acts have to be punished, of course, see Rom 13:1-5 - but acts out of a non-Christian faith must be tolerated (freedom of religion).

Here's where we run into problems. If you've ever been part of an HOA, you'll know that legally you have to bow to the wishes of the majority of home owners. You don't have "rights" in this respect. Your house may have to be so big, or not park big trucks out front. There may be a requirement to match the neighborhood.

If a society that is 99% Christian does not wish to have business open on Sundays, it is *not* within the rights of non-Christians to open their business on Sundays.

If an atheist says he has the "right" to engage in sexual acts with the same gender or with little children because in his religion it is okay, that doesn't make it okay in a Christian society that views these things as sin. It may not have the right to break into an apartment to find some deviant behavior, but public displays that are viewed as "sinful" do not own a protected "right."

I should think you'll agree?

 

[RandyPNW]

You say your revelation is Biblical, but you can't provide Bible verses where Jesus instructs his follower to be political or form political groups. I can cite verses after verse stating that the kingdom of God is not of this world. they are not my interpretation or revelation, they are Word of God.

Who said I cannot provide these kinds of verses? You are judging me without even considering if I have them?

One of the gifts of the Spirit is administration.
1 Cor 12.28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.

I'm not sure about the Greek word for "administrations" but I do know that Solomon set up administrators and governors, as did Ezra and Nehemiah in the restoration. Daniel and his friends were administrators, as were Joseph, Moses, and David. Maybe you're just turned off by our modern designation, "political?"

Unless you can provide biblical principles supported by specific Bible verses, your revelation and inspiration, as well as your claim of having the "spirit," remain your personal opinion.

Some things really don't have to be spelled out. Organization and government is a necessary part of our lives in society. Perhaps you have a problem integrating your spirituality into your secular job?

 

[Helmut-WK]

Here's where we run into problems. If you've ever been part of an HOA, you'll know that legally you have to bow to the wishes of the majority of home owners. You don't have "rights" in this respect. Your house may have to be so big, or not park big trucks out front. There may be a requirement to match the neighborhood.

I never owned a house. My parents did, and I remember that the town gave some rules about such things.

If a society that is 99% Christian does not wish to have business open on Sundays, it is *not* within the rights of non-Christians to open their business on Sundays.

Sunday is no command from God.
The Sabbath is the Saturday (the German word Samstag stems from »Sabbªts-Tag«), or more precisely: It begins on Friday sunset and ends Saturday sunset. Unless you are a seventh-day adherer, you do not keep the Sabbath.
Moreover: You will find no confirmation of the Sabbath command in the NT, rather the contrary (Rom 14:5).

BTW, I live in a country where there are legal restrictions on Sunday work. There have ever been exemptions (hospitals, police, restaurants, tank stops etc.), the industry always tries to have more work on Sundays, the trade unions (and the churches) resist this.

If an atheist says he has the "right" to engage in sexual acts with the same gender or with little children because in his religion it is okay,

I don't think an atheist today will say that sex with children is OK. Such things are observed in religious context (e.g. Islam, or marriage with somewhat elder children in some Christian contexts). You should be more careful with your examples.

that doesn't make it okay in a Christian society that views these things as sin. It may not have the right to break into an apartment to find some deviant behavior, but public displays that are viewed as "sinful" do not own a protected "right."

I should think you'll agree?

If there are 90+% Christians, I agree.

 

[Helmut-WK]

One of the gifts of the Spirit is administration.
1 Cor 12.28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.

This refers to administration within the Church. You don't have apostles, … variety of tongues in politics.

I'm not sure about the Greek word for "administrations"

»Administration« in that verse is kubernesis, dictionary entry.
Paul uses only in the (latter) pastoral letters the terms episkopos (overseer) and presbuteros (elder), and only one time in the church letters episkopos. He usually uses circumscriptions, 1.Co 12:28 is one of them.

To avoid a misunderstanding: I do no oppose to Christians that engage in politics.

But I can't see why a habitual liar, who is inconsistent on abortion, but rather consistent in spreading hatred and lies, should be preferred to the other candidate.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Who said I cannot provide these kinds of verses? You are judging me without even considering if I have them?

One of the gifts of the Spirit is administration.
1 Cor 12.28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.

I'm not sure about the Greek word for "administrations" but I do know that Solomon set up administrators and governors, as did Ezra and Nehemiah in the restoration. Daniel and his friends were administrators, as were Joseph, Moses, and David. Maybe you're just turned off by our modern designation, "political?"

Some things really don't have to be spelled out. Organization and government is a necessary part of our lives in society. Perhaps you have a problem integrating your spirituality into your secular job?

This happens when people use the Bible for their own purposes instead of God's mission. Taking one word out of Bible to make a doctrine? /

Have you read the entire chapter of 1 Corinthians 12? The chapter begins by stating that God gave the gift of the Holy Spirit for specific purposes, such as building the church and supporting one another. Paul then discusses the various gifts and skill sets within the church that work together harmoniously to foster the church's growth. The chapter focuses entirely on the gifts of the Holy Spirit to strengthen and support the church, rather than the government.


You believe "Organization and government are necessary in our lives," yet this isn't specified in the Bible?

In fact, Jesus and the New Testament authors teach us to avoid worldly matters as much as possible.


1 John 2:15-17

Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

Ephesians 6:11-17

Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;

Romans 12:2

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Matthew 6:24-25

“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon. “Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing?

James 4:4

Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.


Romans 8:7

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.


Matthew 6:33

But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.


John 15:19

If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.


Galatians 6:14

But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.



It comes down to whether we should follow Jesus and the Bible or man-made “revelation” about politics. Any true Christian who loves God and obeys His Word knows the answer.

 

[RandyPNW]

I never owned a house. My parents did, and I remember that the town gave some rules about such things.

You don't have to own a house--just understand the example.

Sunday is no command from God.
The Sabbath is the Saturday (the German word Samstag stems from »Sabbªts-Tag«), or more precisely: It begins on Friday sunset and ends Saturday sunset. Unless you are a seventh-day adherer, you do not keep the Sabbath.
Moreover: You will find no confirmation of the Sabbath command in the NT, rather the contrary (Rom 14:5).

This is irrelevant. It is an example. We are not discussing whether various traditions are commands from God. I am pointing out that social order requires a measure of conformity. But tolerance of aberrant pagan behaviors is not something a truly Christian society should engage in. Nevertheless, when Christians live in a pagan society they may have to accept legal tolerance of even sinful behavior like homosexuality and pedophilia.

I'm not saying pedophilia is accepted in pagan societies generally. I'm using an extreme example to make the point. If a pagan society gets to such an extreme as acceptance of marriage to children, and acceptance of sexual activities with children, then as Christians we would still have to accept that, though certainly not endorsing it.

Lot lived in Sodom, and had to tolerate the sodomy in his society. But he did not have to endorse it, and obviously departed from that city as God encouraged him to do.

I don't think an atheist today will say that sex with children is OK. Such things are observed in religious context (e.g. Islam, or marriage with somewhat elder children in some Christian contexts). You should be more careful with your examples.

I don't agree. It is acceptable and often desirable to use extreme examples to make the point, particularly when such things could be moving in that direction. Here in the US "story time" in public education is being used by transvestites and gay adults to indoctrinate little children. Instead of hiding from this we need to "shout it from the housetops," and call it out. Still, we need to abide by the law--not because it is good law, but only because pagans are in charge, trying to keep order in a pagan society.

If there are 90+% Christians, I agree.

Thank you!

 

[RandyPNW]

This refers to administration within the Church. You don't have apostles, … variety of tongues in politics.

»Administration« in that verse is kubernesis, dictionary entry.
Paul uses only in the (latter) pastoral letters the terms episkopos (overseer) and presbuteros (elder), and only one time in the church letters episkopos. He usually uses circumscriptions, 1.Co 12:28 is one of them.

As I pointed out, David, Solomon, and Ezra/Nehemiah used administrators--not just religious administrators but secular administrators, as well. In the Hebrew theocracy, secular jobs were also considered as "gifts from God." The builder of the tabernacle was viewed as "gifted from God." Administrators in secular government are viewed as "gifts from God" by Christians, when those administrators are Christians called by God into such a service.

To avoid a misunderstanding: I do no oppose to Christians that engage in politics.

Thank you!

But I can't see why a habitual liar, who is inconsistent on abortion, but rather consistent in spreading hatred and lies, should be preferred to the other candidate.

"Lies" are sometimes in the eye of the beholder. However, big government policies and corrupt religious ideals do reflect on a political candidate and should determine how we, as Christians, vote.

 

[RandyPNW]

This happens when people use the Bible for their own purposes instead of God's mission. Taking one word out of Bible to make a doctrine? /

Actually, you are taking "one word" out of my rebuttal to rebut my entire claim! I did not just use the word "administration." In context I referred to biblical examples of secular administrations held by men of God. My argument does not rest on a single NT passage! It rather rests on the idea that God gifts His people with not just religious tasks but also with secular governmental tasks.

Look up "administration" in other places in the Bible, and you will see it indicates God was pleased with secular administration to keep the public order, whether manned by believers or by pagans. As I've already said, Daniel and his friends were secular administrators.

Have you read the entire chapter of 1 Corinthians 12? The chapter begins by stating that God gave the gift of the Holy Spirit for specific purposes, such as building the church and supporting one another. Paul then discusses the various gifts and skill sets within the church that work together harmoniously to foster the church's growth. The chapter focuses entirely on the gifts of the Holy Spirit to strengthen and support the church, rather than the government.

Of course I'm aware of this passage, as well as its context. At the time, Christians were subservient to Roman government and had to opt out of government service for the most part.

But that doesn't mean that as the Kingdom of God passed from Israel to Rome that Christians could not begin to serve in secular government positions. As I pointed out, this took place according to biblical examples I offered.

You believe "Organization and government are necessary in our lives," yet this isn't specified in the Bible?

Sorry, but the Bible does specify "organization and government."

Rom 13.Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

1 Peter 2.13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Actually, you are taking "one word" out of my rebuttal to rebut my entire claim! I did not just use the word "administration." In context I referred to biblical examples of secular administrations held by men of God. My argument does not rest on a single NT passage! It rather rests on the idea that God gifts His people with not just religious tasks but also with secular governmental tasks.

Look up "administration" in other places in the Bible, and you will see it indicates God was pleased with secular administration to keep the public order, whether manned by believers or by pagans. As I've already said, Daniel and his friends were secular administrators.

Of course I'm aware of this passage, as well as its context. At the time, Christians were subservient to Roman government and had to opt out of government service for the most part.

But that doesn't mean that as the Kingdom of God passed from Israel to Rome that Christians could not begin to serve in secular government positions. As I pointed out, this took place according to biblical examples I offered.

Sorry, but the Bible does specify "organization and government."

Rom 13.Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

1 Peter 2.13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.

The nation and government of Israel were not the Kingdom of God, nor were they transferred to Rome. Furthermore, it cannot be established as a government on earth because the Kingdom of God is not of this world.

John 18:36 ESV

Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”

Anyone who says the "kingdom of God" can be established on earth is a false teacher.

 

[Helmut-WK]

I'm not saying pedophilia is accepted in pagan societies generally. I'm using an extreme example to make the point.

An extreme example I once stumbled over is in parts or rural USA, where poor families gave young girls (14, or even younger) into marriage with rather well-situated men.
I protested not against the extremity of the example, but rather against the implicit notion that such things cannot happen in Christian contexts.

Lot lived in Sodom, and had to tolerate the sodomy in his society. But he did not have to endorse it, and obviously departed from that city as God encouraged him to do.

The Bible does not say that »sodomy« was a regular practice in this town. Indeed, when Judas refers to this (Jude verse 7) refers to Gen 19, he stresses that the inhabitants of Sodom wanted strange (gr. xenos) flesh, not the same (homoios) flesh. He compares this to the angels in Gen 6:2 - it is the sex between men and angels that is condemned.
But in general, the sin of Sodom was:
Ez 16:49 Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.

Here in the US "story time" in public education is being used by transvestites and gay adults to indoctrinate little children. Instead of hiding from this we need to "shout it from the housetops,"

As to gays and transvestites, I agree (with the caveat that, as an outsider, cannot assess whether your description is correct or exaggerated). But I note that there are more unwanted pregnant Christian teenagers than in other groups - because the boys and girls do not know anything about contraceptive methods, if they are overwhelmed by feelings and seducing each other.
It is not good to hide everything from your children. They should know what happens if they are molested (and talk about this instead of being ashamed ans silenced), they should know how to prevent unwanted pregnancy - this is no contradiction to teach them chastity!

Sometimes that which seems good is not good under close inspection.

 

[Helmut-WK]

"Lies" are sometimes in the eye of the beholder. However, big government policies and corrupt religious ideals do reflect on a political candidate and should determine how we, as Christians, vote.

You can recognize a lie when you compare it to the truth. Sometimes it is so evident that one has to take a blind eye so he still can believe that Trump won the 2020 election (he definitely lost). And I know lies Trump told about my country, Germany.

 

[RandyPNW]

An extreme example I once stumbled over is in parts or rural USA, where poor families gave young girls (14, or even younger) into marriage with rather well-situated men.
I protested not against the extremity of the example, but rather against the implicit notion that such things cannot happen in Christian contexts.

If your country is not the US I can understand your confusion. We Americans fully understand that there are nominal Christians in this country, and they are the predominant type. Such so-called "Christians" change with the wind, with the society, with the norms as they change. And we're quite familiar with things like corrupt ministers and priests--we're not surprised at all, and have no need for your "protest."

The Bible does not say that »sodomy« was a regular practice in this town.

I believe sodomy in Sodom was implied, since that is the example given for the destruction of the *entire city!* It was not an individual case, but an example of "group think."

Indeed, when Judas refers to this (Jude verse 7) refers to Gen 19, he stresses that the inhabitants of Sodom wanted strange (gr. xenos) flesh, not the same (homoios) flesh. He compares this to the angels in Gen 6:2 - it is the sex between men and angels that is condemned.
But in general, the sin of Sodom was:
Ez 16:49 Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.

I can't agree. Aberrant behavior reflects a departure from divine morality. I'm not surprised to hear that sodomites are guilty of both sexual perversion and a lack of compassion.

As to gays and transvestites, I agree (with the caveat that, as an outsider, cannot assess whether your description is correct or exaggerated). But I note that there are more unwanted pregnant Christian teenagers than in other groups - because the boys and girls do not know anything about contraceptive methods, if they are overwhelmed by feelings and seducing each other.

I think teenagers are well aware of contraceptive methods. Pregnancies take place regardless.

It is not good to hide everything from your children. They should know what happens if they are molested (and talk about this instead of being ashamed ans silenced), they should know how to prevent unwanted pregnancy - this is no contradiction to teach them chastity!

I believe there is a responsible way to make children aware. They learn rapidly regardless. What they don't have is the wisdom that comes from experience--they are stilll developing. So there is a fine line between parental guidance and despotic parental behavior.

Sometimes that which seems good is not good under close inspection.

I don't disagree with some of your concerns. We will have to disagree on only a few things, which may in fact be arguable. Thanks.

 

[RandyPNW]

You can recognize a lie when you compare it to the truth. Sometimes it is so evident that one has to take a blind eye so he still can believe that Trump won the 2020 election (he definitely lost). And I know lies Trump told about my country, Germany.

I am half German, friend. Both of my grandparents on one side of the family were immigrant Germans from other countries, and spoke German. I've been to Germany, and enjoyed being there, though I don't speak much more than singing "Stille Nacht."

Trump doesn't like, nor do I, the German policy of allowing unabated immigration by questionable people. Europe has been corrupted by people who are not loyal to Christian standards.

As you can tell, I'm not a "pluralist," but I certainly am a realist. European countries are no longer "Christian," and have no basis for excluding Muslims, Communists, and others who are essentially anti-Christian.

Political views, such as Trump holds, are not "lies." I'm surprised you don't indicate you know the difference? You just seem to react to negative political publicity? But your opinion is noted.

 

[Helmut-WK]

If your country is not the US I can understand your confusion. We Americans fully understand that there are nominal Christians in this country,

It was not confusion. There are plenty of nominal Christians in my country. But if you only count the real Christians, I doubt that there has ever been a Christian society.
Martin Luther, for example, complained that the majority of protestants were like pagans or Turks (i.e., Muslims), and did not understand the gospel at all.

I believe sodomy in Sodom was implied, since that is the example given for the destruction of the *entire city!*

As I pointed out, the case in Gen 19 was described in Jude verse 7 not as »sodomy«, but rather as an attempt to have sex with angels, the same category as Gen 5, where such sex lead to children. Another description in the mind of the ancient would be »break of hospitality« (Lot is called righteous, for he tried to protect his guests by offering his daughters to the mob, cf. Judges 19:24).
While sex between men is certainly called sin in several texts (also in the NT), it is not a point connected with Sodom. That link is our (European, and hence USA) cultural interpretation, not corroborated from the Bible.

I can't agree.

Why?

Aberrant behavior reflects a departure from divine morality. I'm not surprised to hear that sodomites are guilty of both sexual perversion and a lack of compassion.

But the stress in God's words is on pride and the lack of social justice or compassion. I'm not surprised to read that a society with such an attitude also shows a lack of hospitality, and even sexual perversion (which, according to Rom 1:26f, is a consequence of not honoring God).

I think teenagers are well aware of contraceptive methods. Pregnancies take place regardless.

This depends on which teenagers you speak about. And if teenagers only rely on sexual abstinence, they have no preparation whatsoever when they are overwhelmed by their feelings. Just knowing »I should use a condom« without having one at hand is no help.

I believe there is a responsible way to make children aware. They learn rapidly regardless. What they don't have is the wisdom that comes from experience--they are still developing. So there is a fine line between parental guidance and despotic parental behavior.

Yep.
EDIT: Mended some typos.

 

[Helmut-WK]

I am half German, friend. Both of my grandparents on one side of the family were immigrant Germans from other countries, and spoke German. I've been to Germany, and enjoyed being there, though I don't speak much more than singing "Stille Nacht."

Interesting.

Trump doesn't like, nor do I, the German policy of allowing unabated immigration by questionable people.

There is a lie (or call it half-lie) in that statement. »Questionary« people are only a small minority of the refugees, whether those going to Europe or those going to the USA.
And things like »they eat cats and dog in that city« are blatant lies.

Europe has been corrupted by people who are not loyal to Christian standards.

Strictly speaking, no-one is loyal to Christian standa5rds (we are all sinners). More important: European societies always deviated from biblical standards in one way or the other - from the Middle ages to our times.

Political views, such as Trump holds, are not "lies."

I don't speak of political views, but of differences to known facts. The many lawyers of Trump could produce no evidence at all of fraud in the 2020 election, therefore we know (unless we take a blind eye on the facts) that Trump has lost the election.
And it is a known fact that there is climate change. The many massive hurricanes this year are the result of warmer oceans, for example.
And when Trump said that Germany regretted the shutdown of atomic plants - no, we don't regret. We were glad that we could export solar generated electricity to France when many French nuclear plants had to shut down because of climate change (very hot and dry summer).

I refer to things like that, when I call Trump a habitual liar.