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Paul Wilson

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I believein 'The Big Bang' theorey that the scientests have came up with. It makes sense. I believe that that is what God done.

But I have a question for you all.

You cannot have natural light without having the Sun. According to the old testimate on the first day, God created light. But on the forth day, God created the Sun.

Where was the light coming from on the first day, if there was no Sun?
 

Philip

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Paul Wilson said:
You cannot have natural light without having the Sun. According to the old testimate on the first day, God created light. But on the forth day, God created the Sun.

Why couldn't God just have created a bunch of photons? Why do they need to have a source?
 
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Phred

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Philip said:
Why couldn't God just have created a bunch of photons? Why do they need to have a source?
Why couldn't the bible be wrong? It seems to be a much more likely explanation than all these magic photons.

.
 
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mark kennedy

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God said 'Let there be light', it does not explicitly say what the light source was. It may well have been the glory of God or God simply let the light from the sun shine on the surface of the deep.
 
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Sinai

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According to the big bang theory’s Standard Model of the universe, after the initial big bang and inflation occurred, the universe expanded and temperatures and photon energies fell in proportion with the universe’s expansion. When the temperature fell below 3000 degrees Kelvin, electrons were able to be drawn into stable orbits around the hydrogen and helium nuclei by the electromagnetic charges of these nuclei—and light separated from matter and emerged from the darkness of the universe.



Although it may be argued that “light” existed prior to that point in the form of gamma rays, that is an energy form that is in excess of what would be visible to the eye. But as the thermal energy of the photons fell to 3000 degrees Kelvin (thus allowing electrons to bind in stable orbits around hydrogen and helium nuclei), not only did the photons break free from the matter of the universe, but they became visible as well. Now compare the process described in the BBT Standard Model with the wording of Genesis 1: 3-4.

The beginning of the universe and the separation of light from darkness would be major events in the first yom of time--whether viewed scientifically (big bang theory) or Biblically (Genesis 1:1-5).
 
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JohnR7

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Paul Wilson said:
You cannot have natural light without having the Sun. According to the old testimate on the first day, God created light. But on the forth day, God created the Sun.

Where was the light coming from on the first day, if there was no Sun?

The only think God did on the forth day was to make a change in the atmosphere. The way we see the sun and the way it effects the earth has a lot to do with the atmosphere.
 
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jmu_219

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JohnR7 said:
The only think God did on the forth day was to make a change in the atmosphere. The way we see the sun and the way it effects the earth has a lot to do with the atmosphere.

And your evidence for this is exactly what?

Might not it be dangerous to take liberties with the Word of God?
 
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michabo

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Didn't god create water before light? I forget. But simply put, water requires heat and radiates light in the infrared. No sun required, but some weird mental hoops are required to picture liquid water without the sun, or how any of this fit into the BB model.

With the BB in particular, light (photons) will exist well before the sun as matter and anti-matter annihilate and create photons. This before complete atoms exist, and long before stars can form.
 
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JohnR7

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jmu_219 said:
And your evidence for this is exactly what?

Genesis 1:14-19
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: [15] And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. [16] And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. [17] And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, [18] And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. [19] And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

The Bible is clearly talking about a work God was doing in the firmament or the atmosphere of the earth. Perhaps you need to get a good physics book that can explain to you how our atmosphere effects the light. You will never understand light if you do not understand the physics behind it.

Might not it be dangerous to take liberties with the Word of God?

What liberties would that be? I have taken enough classes at the Bible college to understand how to interpret the Bible. You can run a google search and find a web site that will list the 7 basic rules of Bible interpretation.
 
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Paul Wilson

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JohnR7 - "The Bible is clearly talking about a work God was doing in the firmament or the atmosphere of the earth. Perhaps you need to get a good physics book that can explain to you how our atmosphere effects the light. You will never understand light if you do not understand the physics behind it."

I understand how the physics works.

Sinai - "According to the big bang theory’s Standard Model of the universe, after the initial big bang and inflation occurred, the universe expanded and temperatures and photon energies fell in proportion with the universe’s expansion. When the temperature fell below 3000 degrees Kelvin, electrons were able to be drawn into stable orbits around the hydrogen and helium nuclei by the electromagnetic charges of these nuclei—and light separated from matter and emerged from the darkness of the universe.



Although it may be argued that “light” existed prior to that point in the form of gamma rays, that is an energy form that is in excess of what would be visible to the eye. But as the thermal energy of the photons fell to 3000 degrees Kelvin (thus allowing electrons to bind in stable orbits around hydrogen and helium nuclei), not only did the photons break free from the matter of the universe, but they became visible as well. Now compare the process described in the BBT Standard Model with the wording of Genesis 1: 3-4."

The sun is a fuse of hydrogen and helium nuclei (As the hydrogen reaches the surface of the sun, it turns to helium) and it's this that gives us our light / heat. Also, visible light does not emit heat, it's the other radiations within the light spectrum which give us our heat.

I still don't know how God worked the wonders he did, without any light. According to the Bible, he gave light on the first day so he could work. On the forth he created the Sun. What I want to know is, where did that light come from on the first day? Unless, much like time. God does not work with / need light.
 
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Robert the Pilegrim

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jmu_219 said:
And your evidence for this is exactly what?
Might not it be dangerous to take liberties with the Word of God?
Well, actually it is a pretty standard OEC argument that since the Hebrew in Gen 1:4 is arguably not about creation that therefore what was going on was on the fourth day the clouds cleared up so that the Sun shown directly upon the Earth.
 
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more 2 life

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Hello Paul Wilson,
Quoted Paul Wilson: I believein 'The Big Bang' theorey that the scientests have came up with. It makes sense.

And what God said He did through the Bible does not make sense? The big bang theory is based on the anti-God philosophy of humanism, while the Bible is the Inspired Word of God. Who are you going to trust, man who were not there and whose natural tendency is to rebell (sin) against God, or God Himself who was there and who never lies as revealed through His Word, the Bible?

Note to moderators: this is not implying or other wise that those Christians who believe the big bang and evolutionary beliefs aren't Christians, but they have destroyed the basis of the Gospel to which they claim to believe, i.e. no death before Adam and a literal belief in Adam's rebellion against God are essential to Jesus' earthly life being made neccessary, or as Richard Bozarth puts it in The Meaning of Evolution, American Atheist, p.30 Sep. 20, 1979:

Christianity has fought, still fights, and will fight science to the desperate end over evolution, because evolution destroys utterly and finally the very reason Jesus’ earthly life was supposedly made necessary. Destroy Adam and Eve and the original sin, and in the rubble you will find the sorry remains of the son of god. Take away the meaning of his death. If Jesus was not the redeemer that died for our sins, and this is what evolution means, then Christianity is nothing.

Quoted Paul Wilson: You cannot have natural light without having the Sun. According to the old testimate on the first day, God created light. But on the forth day, God created the Sun.

[1]Did you know that the sun is not needed for day and night? What is needed is light and a rotating Earth. On the first day of creation, God made light (Genesis 1:3). The phrase "evening and morning" certainly implies a rotating Earth. Thus, if we have light from one direction, and a spinning Earth, there can be day and night. Where did the light come from?We are not told [2], but Genesis 1:3 certainly indicates it was a created light to provide day and night until God made the sun on the fourth day to rule the day He had made. Revelation 21:23 tells us that one day the sun will not be needed, as the Glory of God will light the heavenly city!

Perhaps, one reason God did it this way was to illustrate that the sun did not have the priority in the creation that people have tended to give it. The sun did not give birth to teh Earth as evolutionary theories suggest; the sun was God's created tool to rule the day that God had made (Geneesi 1:16).

Down through the ages people, such as the Egyptians, have worshipped the sun. God warned teh Israelites in Deuteronomy 4:19 not to worship the sun like the pagan cultures around them did. They were commanded to worship the God who made the sun - not the sun that was made by God.

Evolutionary theories state that the sun came before the Earth, and that the sun's energy on the Earth eventually gave rise to life. Just as in pagan beliefs, the sun is, in a sense, given credit for the wonder of creation.

It's interesting to contrast the speculations of modern cosmology with the writings of the early church father Theophilus:
"On the fourth day the luminaries came into existence. Since God has foreknowledge, He understood the nonsense of the foolish philosophers who were going to say that the things produced on Earth came from the stars, so that they might set God aside. In order therefore that the truth might be demonstrated, plants and seeds came into existence before stars. For what comes into existence later cannot cause what is prior to it." [emphasis added]

more 2 life [M2L]

References:
[1] The Updated & Expanded Answers Book, p. 34, Edited by Don Batten.
[2] Some people ask why God did not tell us the source of this light. However, if God told us everything, we would have so many books we would not have time to read them. God has given us all the information we need to come to the right conclusions about the things that really matter.
 
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Sinai

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more 2 life said:
The big bang theory is based on the anti-God philosophy of humanism
No. The big bang theory is not philosophy (though some object to it because it parallels the Genesis account too much for them), but rather upon science. Since you seem to accept the Bible, why do you object to a scientific theory that is very compatible with the biblical account of creation? Just curious.....
 
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