1John...says we cannot sin?..what does this mean?

[harsum]

need answers....people have told me that as christians we cannot sin. in first john

 

[Pasat_14]

This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. Bit if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
If we claim to be without sin, we decieve ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess out sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us out sins and purify us frmo all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
1 John 1:5-10

The whole book is about fellowship really.
When you say "cannot sin" do you mean as in we're always perfect or taht we're not allowed to?
We're not perfect, and we do sin but it's by the blood of Jesus that we are purified. (1 John 1:7). So as we're not meant to sin, we do. But it doesnt mean we're not saved (For it is by grace you have been saved through faith. Ephesians 2:8)

Well I hope I'm some kind of help. If you could elaborate and explain your question a bit better I'll do my best to answer in a bit more detail.

xox.

 

[Johnnz]

As a Christian I don't engage in what I know to be wrong. That is my motive. There are times when I goof. Confess and get on with living. That verse is about what we deeply desire, not what we can do sometimes as we wander off course..

John
NZ

 

[harsum]

well here it is.I was saved as a teenager..I fell away from the lord. I am returning to god now.I need to find a good church to go to.The church I used to go to had alot of good teachings...but some bad ones..or incorrect ones...the reasons i stayed away from the lord so long...I was taught that basically if you mess up to much god would not take you back...because i did not search the scriptures I beleived a mans word rather than gods word who said i would never leave you nor forsake you..I walked away from him he did not leave me.But from being taught that i would not be accepted back and not studying the word god gave us..I was lead to beleive he would not take me back..I know now I was wrong.The point is I want to find a church that will teach me gods word and lead me closer to him.I have been attending a church where they teach that as christians...we cannot sin.This sounds a bit off to me. I need scriptures to either prove this to be true or false.Again just coming back so i don't know exactly where to look in the bible..and I do not want to be lead astray by mans words again I want to know what god said on this matter and where it is in the bible....I 1 john it also says he that says he has no sin maketh god a liar and the truth is not in him...or something along those lines....they beleive that because of what jesus did on the cross...that he died for all sins...meaning all...past and present...so in a way we do not sin...because jesus died on the cross for it.they us a scripture in 1john 3 and 9 that says...whosoever is born of god doeth not commit sin;for his seed remaineth in him:and he connot sin.because he is born of god,I looked up the word sin in the concordence...it mean habitual sin...we cannot habitually sin...People that habitually sin are sinners.so what I get out of it is because jesus's seed is in us we cannot habitually sin anymore...because he saved us....we still sin...but the power of sin and the wage...death...is not longer there....we must still confess our sins and ask gods forgiveness on a daily basis....I beleive sin is still in us...because we were born into sin...we are sinners saved by grace.I say this because.Romans 3:23 says for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of god.it is from within that sin arises, because of mans basic corruption.Mark7:21-23 says: for from within, out of the heart of men,proceed evil thoughts,adultries,fornications,murders,thefts,covetousness,wickedness, deceit,lasciviousness:ALL these evil things come from within, and defile the man.the most important result of sin is that it breaks our fellowship with god. but it also does things to our inner workings. when we say that the wages of sin is death,this does not only speak of the final acounting at the end of life. sin produces results now. this is why immediate repentanceis neccessary. sin must be washed out of us before it destroys us from within.we were given basic moral guidence...and inner alarm system if you will to tell us the difference between right and wrong. we call it conscience.when the alarm is sounding telling us something is wrong we call it guilt. this inner conviction demands attention.the way of repentance. confess,ask forgivness,recieve his cleansing,and walk away from the sin.1 john 1 :9...if we confess our sins,he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.now 1 john 1:5-10..I beleive John is talking about continuance in God's presence.God is lightIf we remain in fellowship with him he exposes us to ourselves.Little by little as we can bear it, he brings to the surface things that need to be changed in us, if we are to be conformed to his image.This light requires that we face ourselves and make a decision whether or not we will allow god to change us.If we cooperate with the holy spiritas he shows us what we look like to god, we not only continue to enjoy fellowship, but we experiance constant cleansing and growth.that is what i get out of those scriptures...ephesians5:13...but all these things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoeverdoth manifest is light.I beleive salvation is not a once in a life time experience..in the sence that it does not consist of initial repentance alone.salvation has not only a past meaning, the forgiveness of sin but a present and future application.which is being made like christ we lay the foundation stone of initial repentance in order to go on changing the rest of our lives.to go on changing requires the ongoing repentance and acknowlaging our constant need of the lord in practical daily needs.It is not the feeling of temptation but the decision of our will that results in sinful actionteptation is not sin...yeilding to temptation or giving in is.James1:14-15.Not sure if i'm making any sence here or not and if your still with me great.In a nut shell i beleive we still sin. way back at the start of this i stated that the church i am going to beleives as christians we do not and cannot sin.i beleive we do..i guess what i'm saying if you read what i beleive and agree let me know...and can you please give me more sciptures i could show them...or if i'm totally in left feild also let me know...if corection is needed i'm all ears...because again don't know the bible from front to back yet just finding my way back home right now..so if i'm wrong...please let me know....in the word of course because i want to know what god says.... thanks ..i know this was long..i was rambling on... next one will be more to the point.

 

[Ruth~]

need answers....people have told me that as christians we cannot sin. in first john

We are not supposed to sin but we still do sin but we are forgivin because of Jesus dying for all of our sins.

 

[heymikey80]

need answers....people have told me that as christians we cannot sin. in first john

What you're finding about habitual sin is from a difference in the way the Greek language uses its verbs. "Someone born of God does not continue sinning [but seeks to stop his sins]." A few notes about context will make this clear, too.

At the end of his life John had serious conflicts with a group of people called "Gnostics". Among them, Cerinthus thought that the division between the spirit and the body was so great, that it didn't matter how much we sinned. John reacted with disgust. But many in his church were attracted to this teaching. It seemed logical -- if my sin doesn't keep me from God, then it must not matter, right?

So I believe John wrote this homily as a direct address to this problem. In it John points out, the problem with this view is, it makes sin out to be nothing -- so you're not really sinning. But John pointed out, Jesus came to put an end to sin. ( 1 Jn 3:5) It would make no sense if Jesus wasn't at this very time accomplishing what He set out to do. Jesus is indeed in the process of ending sin. Yet we see we have sin, and we'd be lying to say we don't sin (1 Jn 1:8-10). We're in the process with Jesus. We still sin -- yet by His work and His Spirit we are also putting an end to sin.

John went further, so that people could see who was causing them problems by their teaching.

How do you identify true teachers? They agree Jesus came in the flesh. They don't persist in sin, but they struggle to leave it behind. They never really do lose it all, though, and they tell the truth about their own sins, confessing them and receiving forgiveness. And even the mature believers, they love the brothers -- babies in Christ as well as the older people. They don't act superior to them as if they have something special that the newbies don't. For all of us have that One Part that is so important. We have Christ.

If you read John carefully, where the word "sin" in the present tense is understood to be "continue sinning", you'll see what John is getting at.

 

[BeLedbyHisSpirit]

What you're finding about habitual sin is from a difference in the way the Greek language uses its verbs. "Someone born of God does not continue sinning [but seeks to stop his sins]." A few notes about context will make this clear, too.

At the end of his life John had serious conflicts with a group of people called "Gnostics". Among them, Cerinthus thought that the division between the spirit and the body was so great, that it didn't matter how much we sinned. John reacted with disgust. But many in his church were attracted to this teaching. It seemed logical -- if my sin doesn't keep me from God, then it must not matter, right?

So I believe John wrote this homily as a direct address to this problem. In it John points out, the problem with this view is, it makes sin out to be nothing -- so you're not really sinning. But John pointed out, Jesus came to put an end to sin. ( 1 Jn 3:5) It would make no sense if Jesus wasn't at this very time accomplishing what He set out to do. Jesus is indeed in the process of ending sin. Yet we see we have sin, and we'd be lying to say we don't sin (1 Jn 1:8-10). We're in the process with Jesus. We still sin -- yet by His work and His Spirit we are also putting an end to sin.

John went further, so that people could see who was causing them problems by their teaching.

How do you identify true teachers? They agree Jesus came in the flesh. They don't persist in sin, but they struggle to leave it behind. They never really do lose it all, though, and they tell the truth about their own sins, confessing them and receiving forgiveness. And even the mature believers, they love the brothers -- babies in Christ as well as the older people. They don't act superior to them as if they have something special that the newbies don't. For all of us have that One Part that is so important. We have Christ.

If you read John carefully, where the word "sin" in the present tense is understood to be "continue sinning", you'll see what John is getting at.

The reason John did not write "continue sinning" is because he did not mean to. It is not an accident or oversight.

The seed of God CANNOT sin. That is, your new born again nature. And it does not nor cannot sin. It is made new and alive by the Holy Spirit.

You still have your soul, old man, which needs to be crucified.

 

[heymikey80]

The reason John did not write "continue sinning" is because he did not mean to. It is not an accident or oversight.

It wouldn't be an oversight in Greek. It'd only be an oversight of the translator in not taking the Greek tense into account.

The seed of God CANNOT sin. That is, your new born again nature. And it does not nor cannot sin. It is made new and alive by the Holy Spirit.

You still have your soul, old man, which needs to be crucified.

John doesn't allow this:

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 1 John 2:1
​

We, little children, can and do sin.

If John meant something like, 'that this seed can't sin, but we can still sin in the old man,' well, if it weren't for the present continuing tense of the verb, John would have to be saying the opposite:

No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9
​

This is why the present continuing tense pretty-much has to be what John means. Because otherwise, John is telling us we sin, yet we can't sin.

This continuing sense of the present tense in Greek is not unusual. It's only when it translates into English that it creates these kinds of frustrating sentences. The English Standard version accounts for these problems and translates the above as continuing tense:

No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God 1 Jn 3:9 esv
​

 

[BeLedbyHisSpirit]

It is just as dangerous to call two (put asunder) what God calls "one", as it is to call one what God calls two.

The problem is reconciled by understanding that you have 2 things going on. Not one.

You have a newly born again spirit. This is fact.

You also have your old man, your soul.

When Paul wrote Romans 7, saying "Why do I do things I do not wish to do? And why do I do not do the things I wish?" is demonstration of the fact that we still do sin.

BUT, it only through recognition by the newly made man (the spirit!!!!), that this understanding came into view by Paul.

IF you recall, Paul wrote of his own appraisal (apart from the Spirit of God), in Philippians 3:4-6 that he was blameless (so he thought) with regard to being a sinner. But then, he is made newly aware of all his sin by what? By his getting born again. When the Holy Spirit awakened him, he realized how dead he was in tresspasses, and his account in Romans 7 reveals that now he is fully aware of his sin.

Furthermore, it is at the END of Paul's life when he considered himself chief, or foremost of sinners. We witness his attitude change and growing ever more humble as he gets on in his walk and life with Jesus. The closer we grow to Christ, the more we realize our need of HIM.

It's true, and beautiful.

So... the reason John write that we cannot sin, is because of our spirit nature.

It would be absurd to think that we do not sin when he starts his letter out by saying so, to the contrary. Read the 1st chapter!

We sin in our souls. Our old man still gives us problems.

But we are not to yield to our old man, but rather crucify it by the power of God. Our newly made alive spirit, which needs to be filled again and again, while our soul is made to see its weakness.

 

[rocklife]

need answers....people have told me that as christians we cannot sin. in first john

I have heard preachers say this means habitually sin.

1 John 3:6 "No one who lives in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."

there are verses in 1 John that says if we claim we are without sin, we are lying. 1 John 1:8 "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." it continues on about our confessing and being purified. I believe we are to continue in this process and continue in not having habitual sins. Sin on accident every once in a while is a different thing than a sinful lifestyle.

This kind of life is also a power of God. What is impossible for man is possible with God. Ask Him for help to overcome sin, He will Good overcomes evil

 

[harsum]

I would like to thank those who have asnswered the question at hand.you have all given me really great biblical answers which is what I wanted.Personally i beleive from what I read is that we still do sin,If anyone says he doesnot sin he is a liar.When we are saved we are saved from the wage of sin death.we still sin..It is the holy spirit in us...new man if you will....that brings forth or manifests the sin in us,first so we can deal with the sin...crucify the old man...and also brings us closer to the lord...by realizing our need for him.if you say you cannot sin or do not sin it would be safe to say that you are perfect...no one is perfect no not one.throughout our entire lives god makes manifest the sins in our lives..to stop doing the things we wish not to...we faulter....but eventualy that sin we will do no more.some easier than others....some takes our whole lives for god to work out of our lives....I look at justification...sanctification..and glorification..as suc:
Justification-past tense-we were saved emediatly from sin's penalty...death when jesus came into our lives.
sanctification-present tense-we are being saved progressively from sin's power...the closer to god we get the less power sin has on our lives.the more we grow in him the less we sin and the less desire we have to sin...because we then what to please god.
glorification-future sense-saved ultimately from sins presnce...the closer we get to god the less present sin is in our lives...when he comes back for his children...only then will we be glorified....saved ultimately from sin's presence.

again this is just the way i interpret it or put it into perspective for me....from what i know...don't know it all..still a babe so again..if correction is needed please show me what god says on the matter in his word...if i'm undersatnding it correclty..than praise god.....


i ask one more thing..if you have read this from the beggining you would have read that I'm just coming back to the lord...trying to find a church where they will draw me closer to god by teaching the right things... again they teach we do not sin and cannot sin as beleivers....which is not right...from what i know of the scriptures.we still sin we are sinners saved by grace..the only thing that seperates us if you will is that we were saved by gods grace.now I would like to aproach the pastor...and show him in the bible that what he is teaching is not right...why I disagree with him...i have scriptures but not many...i would ask if you could give me more sciptures,,,that show as christians we still sin....They beleive we don't and cannot.
thank you