1Chor. 6:12

[Pamelav]

'All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything. '

What is your take on this?

Thanks.

 

[Ken Behrens]

Who follows Jesus, obeys the "law" automatically. This verse says to stop thinking about whether you have disobeyed the law, and start thinking instead whether your life is getting you closer to salvation (which of course is getting closer to Jesus). It's a different way to think about temptation; we refuse to be mastered by anything, so we are free to follow Jesus, rather than thinking about it as violation of law. We look up toward heaven instead of down into a book of rules.

 

[Mark51]

It seems to me that Paul was counseling that what is lawful to say, do, or eat (his example) and so forth may be lawful within the society in which we live; but, exercising such rights, may not be in one's best interest. For example, excessive drinking, tobacco use, premarital sex etc.

As Christians, are we considering the impact of how others may interpret our actions? Most important, do we consider if our actions and decisions in life is bringing a reproach to Almighty God? Let us first consider what is pleasing to God because, although societal lawful, not everything is "advantageous" or spiritually uplifting/beneficial.

 

[RDKirk]

'All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything. '

What is your take on this?

Thanks.

People incessantly ask, "Is this a sin? Is that a sin? Where does it say it in the bible?"

Paul is saying stop measuring righteousness by adherence to a written code, measure righteousness by the transformation of your mind in accordance with the mind of Christ.

The question is not, "Where in the bible does it say this is a sin?"

The question is: "Is this action profitable to Christ? Is it profitable to me for sanctification toward being Christlike? Is it profitable to the Body of Christ?"

This raises the bar. It's the difference between burying the talent (avoiding doing anything wrong) versus making a profit for the Master.

This is not to say there are no clear "do nots" for Christians. Certainly we can broadly classify many things as clearly "not profitable"--and Paul does. But the basis of mindset is not to try to find the line in scripture for every action, but to put on the mind of Christ and determine whether the action forwards His mission.

 

[BobRyan]

'All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything. '

What is your take on this?

Thanks.

1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

In the NT "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

 

[Wordkeeper]

Some things are permitted. But in excess, they are sinful. Paul advised Timothy to avoid asceticism, to drink a little wine, as wine was supposed to disinfect the gut.

However, some believers were abusing their liberty. For example, they would use wine for social purposes not medicinal. Nothing wrong with this, but it caused weaker believers to be confused, making them wonder if abusing the habit was also permissible.

In the case of meat offered to idols, the weaker believers wondered if eating meat the way idol worshippers ate it, as a form of worship, was also permissible.

This behavior of the so called mature believers is called stumbling.

 

[BobRyan]

Some things are permitted. .

That is true -- but none of this is permitted --

1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

 

[Wordkeeper]

That is true -- but none of this is permitted --

Is eating food offered to idols permitted?

 

[BobRyan]

Is eating food offered to idols permitted?

It does not show up in that list - nor does it show up in the Ten Commandments. But bowing down to images and "Serving them" is certainly condemned in the Ten Commandments. Eating a carrot or a bowl of soup offered by someone else to a false god - is not such a problem for a Christian.

But in the NT many idol-worshiping pagans were turning to the one true God and they were used to thinking of eating food offered to idols as a form of devotion to that false god. (At least that is what we are told in 1 Cor 8) -- so For them - it would be wrong according to Romans 14.

 

[Soyeong]

'All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything. '

What is your take on this?

Thanks.

That was a common saying in Corinth that was leading to some of the problems what Paul was addressing in his letters to them, so he was quoting it in order to argue against it, not to endorse it. For example, in 1 Corinthians 8, they had become puffed up by their knowledge and had reasoned that idols were nothing, so they felt free to eat meat sacrificed to idols when the truth was that idols are not thing, but are actually demons and that they were committing idolatry. Sexual sin was another big issue that they incorrectly thought that they had the freedom in Christ to commit. In 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, it doesn't say that they had to freedom to do those things if they wanted, it just wasn't beneficial, but rather it says that the people who practice those things won't inherit the kingdom of God. With all the laws that Paul taught to obey and with all the time he spent teaching against sin, it is absurd to interpret this as Paul saying that we have the freedom to do the things that God has revealed to be sin.

In John 14:15, Jesus said that if we love him, then we will follow his commands, not that we will follow his suggestions. There are 1,050 commands in the NT, so it is absurd to endorse the position that everything is lawful. In 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12, it warns against a man of lawlessness who will lead a rebellion against God who will deceive people who will perish because they did not love the truth of God's Word, so do not be deceived. In 2 Peter 3:15-17, it says that Paul is difficult to understand, but those who are ignorant and unstable twist his words to their own destruction and fall into the error of lawlessness, so do not fall into the same error, but rather Paul said that our faith upholds God's law (Romans 3:31)

 

[Soyeong]

Who follows Jesus, obeys the "law" automatically. This verse says to stop thinking about whether you have disobeyed the law, and start thinking instead whether your life is getting you closer to salvation (which of course is getting closer to Jesus). It's a different way to think about temptation; we refuse to be mastered by anything, so we are free to follow Jesus, rather than thinking about it as violation of law. We look up toward heaven instead of down into a book of rules.

I don't see anything in the Bible that suggests that followers of Jesus obey the law automatically, otherwise the many commands and exhortations not to sin would be completely necessary. According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation involves God's grace training us to follow what God has revealed to be godly, righteous, and good, and training us to renounce our doing what God has revealed to be ungodly, sinful, and lawless, and Jesus said that if we love him, then we will obey his commands (John 14:15), so there is no thinking about getting closer to salvation and Jesus without thinking about our obedience to the law. Paul said a number of times that we have become obedient slaves or servants of God (Romans 6:16, 1 Corinthians 7:22, Ephesians 6:6, Colossians 3:24, 1 Peter 2:16), so if we refuse to be mastered by God's law by grace through faith and the leading of the Spirit, then we defeat the purpose of our salvation. We are saved by grace through faith, not by doing good works, but for the purpose of coming into obedience to God's commands for how to do good works by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-10). Jesus set a perfect example of how to walk in obedience to the law and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that that we ought to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:3-6), so there is no such thing as following Jesus without following the law.

 

[Wordkeeper]

It does not show up in that list - nor does it show up in the Ten Commandments. But bowing down to images and "Serving them" is certainly condemned in the Ten Commandments. Eating a carrot or a bowl of soup offered by someone else to a false god - is not such a problem for a Christian.

But in the NT many idol-worshiping pagans were turning to the one true God and they were used to thinking of eating food offered to idols as a form of devotion to that false god. (At least that is what we are told in 1 Cor 8) -- so For them - it would be wrong according to Romans 14.

We can form a rule that applies to all situations.

There are activities that are permitted:

1.Wine drinking, because it had medicinal value, and we are not using it to intoxicate ourselves, although there is a way to use it as an intoxicant.

2.Eating food offered to idols, because it is inexpensive, and we are not using it to worship those idols , although there is a way to worship idols through food.

3. Visiting movie halls, because it is educational, and we are not using it to indulge in pornography, although there is a way to use it for pornographic purposes.


However we should avoid these activities because when we do them, there is no balloon above our head telling people WHY we are doing those activities.

It's not sufficient to be good, we should also appear to be good.

 

[Ken Behrens]

I don't see anything in the Bible that suggests that followers of Jesus obey the law automatically, otherwise the many commands and exhortations not to sin would be completely necessary. According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation involves God's grace training us to follow what God has revealed to be godly, righteous, and good, and training us to renounce our doing what God has revealed to be ungodly, sinful, and lawless, and Jesus said that if we love him, then we will obey his commands (John 14:15), so there is no thinking about getting closer to salvation and Jesus without thinking about our obedience to the law. Paul said a number of times that we have become obedient slaves or servants of God (Romans 6:16, 1 Corinthians 7:22, Ephesians 6:6, Colossians 3:24, 1 Peter 2:16), so if we refuse to be mastered by God's law by grace through faith and the leading of the Spirit, then we defeat the purpose of our salvation. We are saved by grace through faith, not by doing good works, but for the purpose of coming into obedience to God's commands for how to do good works by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-10). Jesus set a perfect example of how to walk in obedience to the law and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that that we ought to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:3-6), so there is no such thing as following Jesus without following the law.

My statement is simply a restatement of I Cor. 10:23. "All things are lawful for me, but not all things are expedient " and Rom. 13:9 "love fulfills the law." This is the sense in which your Scriptures are to be interpreted.

 

[Soyeong]

My statement is simply a restatement of I Cor. 10:23. "All things are lawful for me, but not all things are expedient " and Rom. 13:9 "love fulfills the law." This is the sense in which your Scriptures are to be interpreted.

Jesus summarized the law as being about how to love God and how to love our neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40), so love fulfills the law because it demonstrates a full understanding about what the law is essentially about how to do. If you say we just need to follow the command to love, so we don't need to obey any of God's laws for how He wants us to love, then you have missed the point. Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4), so when Jesus was telling people to repent from their sins, he was telling them to turn away from their disobedience to the law and back to obedience, so repentance from our disobedience to the law is a central part of the gospel message. Jesus also said that if we love him, then we will obey his commands (John 14:15), so following the law of God is the way that we are told to demonstrate our love for God, and conversely considering everything to be lawful is the way to demonstrate our lack of love for God. In 1 Corinthians 10:23, Paul was not quoting "all things are lawful" in order to endorse it, but to argue against it.

 

[Ken Behrens]

Jesus summarized the law as being about how to love God and how to love our neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40), so love fulfills the law because it demonstrates a full understanding about what the law is essentially about how to do. If you say we just need to follow the command to love, so we don't need to obey any of God's laws for how He wants us to love, then you have missed the point. Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4), so when Jesus was telling people to repent from their sins, he was telling them to turn away from their disobedience to the law and back to obedience, so repentance from our disobedience to the law is a central part of the gospel message. Jesus also said that if we love him, then we will obey his commands (John 14:15), so following the law of God is the way that we are told to demonstrate our love for God, and conversely considering everything to be lawful is the way to demonstrate our lack of love for God. In 1 Corinthians 10:23, Paul was not quoting "all things are lawful" in order to endorse it, but to argue against it.

I did not say that we do not need to obey the other laws, I said we do so automatically. That is why we do not need to think about them, if we are following Jesus. Jesus teaches us how to love, so as we follow Him, we acquire the habits of doing the other laws as well. It's not a question of what we must do. It is a question of what we are free to think about.