1888 - Still Missing the Mark in 2013?

[AndrewK788]

I,"see" your point. I'll like to share a different,"view" on this topic. It was not the unknown that bothered Jesus, but the knowen. I had posted this earlier.

Not really sure what you're saying. Where else did you post about this? Sorry, I must have missed it.

 

[JDMiowa]

Not really sure what you're saying. Where else did you post about this? Sorry, I must have missed it.

I wrote an article/post titled, "A Bible Riddle" in Traditional Adventist. It includes the discussion I provided above.

 

[Martinman]

“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I saw that Jones and Waggoner had their counter-part in Joshua and Caleb[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]As the children of Israel stoned the spies with literal stones, you have stoned these brethren with stones of sarcasm and ridicule. I saw that you willfully rejected what you knew to be truth just because it was too humiliating to your dignity. I saw some of you in your tents mincing and making all manner of fun of these two brethren.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I also saw that if you had accepted their message we would have been in the kingdom two years from that date, but now we have to go back into the wilderness and there stay forty years.” [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]E.G. White, Melbourne, Australia, May 9, 1892. E.G. White[/FONT]

The significance of this statement is that the Jubilee year of 1889 occurred just before the proposed entrance into the heavenly by God's people.

 

[Martinman]

"Then commenced the jubilee, when the land should rest. I saw the pious slave rise in triumph and victory, and shake off the chains that bound him, while his wicked master was in confusion, and knew not what to do; for the wicked could not understand the words of the voice of God.” {CET 95-96}

 

[JDMiowa]

“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I saw that Jones and Waggoner had their counter-part in Joshua and Caleb[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]As the children of Israel stoned the spies with literal stones, you have stoned these brethren with stones of sarcasm and ridicule. I saw that you willfully rejected what you knew to be truth just because it was too humiliating to your dignity. I saw some of you in your tents mincing and making all manner of fun of these two brethren.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I also saw that if you had accepted their message we would have been in the kingdom two years from that date, but now we have to go back into the wilderness and there stay forty years.” [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]E.G. White, Melbourne, Australia, May 9, 1892. E.G. White[/FONT]

The significance of this statement is that the Jubilee year of 1889 occurred just before the proposed entrance into the heavenly by God's people.

Why ,"Jubilee year of 1889" when Jesus paid the bad debt we owed on the Cross? Don't "types" end when they kiss the "anti type"? Also Jubilee happens every 50yrs. Since Jesus paid the price in full that year would not that had been a "Jubilee year"?

 

[AndrewK788]

Why ,"Jubilee year of 1889" when Jesus paid the bad debt we owed on the Cross? Don't "types" end when they kiss the "anti type"? Also Jubilee happens every 50yrs. Since Jesus paid the price in full that year would not that had been a "Jubilee year"?

I'm not well-informed in the Jubilee year concept. I did have a comment/question regarding the types and antitypes though. I absolutely agree that when the antitype comes, the type must therefore cease. Some people clump much more than Scripture implies into "types" though, claiming Christ fulfilled them on Calvary. Calvary fulfilled the Passover and Unleavened bread for example and forever took the place of the daily sacrifice. It did not fulfill the Day of Atonement, however. So is it right to say that not ALL types were fulfilled at Calvary? Or is there a more theologically correct way of saying what I mean?

And of course, with this in mind, the question still stands in my mind, how does the Jubilee year play into this? Sorry, I probably brought up more questions than answers on that one...

 

[JDMiowa]

I'm not well-informed in the Jubilee year concept. I did have a comment/question regarding the types and antitypes though. I absolutely agree that when the antitype comes, the type must therefore cease. Some people clump much more than Scripture implies into "types" though, claiming Christ fulfilled them on Calvary. Calvary fulfilled the Passover and Unleavened bread for example and forever took the place of the daily sacrifice. It did not fulfill the Day of Atonement, however. So is it right to say that not ALL types were fulfilled at Calvary? Or is there a more theologically correct way of saying what I mean?

And of course, with this in mind, the question still stands in my mind, how does the Jubilee year play into this? Sorry, I probably brought up more questions than answers on that one...

Since Jesus was the sacrifice for,"Passover/Unleavened bread" he must also be the sacrifice for the 49th year,"Passover/Unleavened bread" that begins the Year long Sabbath where the price was paid for the whole world. To For Give means to Pre Pay a price we could not pay for ourselves.

 

[stinsonmarri]

I'm not well-informed in the Jubilee year concept. I did have a comment/question regarding the types and antitypes though. I absolutely agree that when the antitype comes, the type must therefore cease. Some people clump much more than Scripture implies into "types" though, claiming Christ fulfilled them on Calvary. Calvary fulfilled the Passover and Unleavened bread for example and forever took the place of the daily sacrifice. It did not fulfill the Day of Atonement, however. So is it right to say that not ALL types were fulfilled at Calvary? Or is there a more theologically correct way of saying what I mean?

And of course, with this in mind, the question still stands in my mind, how does the Jubilee year play into this? Sorry, I probably brought up more questions than answers on that one...

I will not get in to the Jubilee because it was not a requirement for us today to keep. However we still take unleavened bread this ritual was transferred over for us today. As Paul said to remove the unleaven of sin from our lives. 1 Cor 5:6-8

Happy Sabbath,
stinsonmarri

 

[JDMiowa]

I will not get in to the Jubilee because it was not a requirement for us today to keep. However we still take unleavened bread this ritual was transferred over for us today. As Paul said to remove the unleaven of sin from our lives. 1 Cor 5:6-8

Happy Sabbath,
stinsonmarri

Is this your interpretation? If not why did you post it?

 

[AndrewK788]

I will not get in to the Jubilee because it was not a requirement for us today to keep. However we still take unleavened bread this ritual was transferred over for us today. As Paul said to remove the unleaven of sin from our lives. 1 Cor 5:6-8

Happy Sabbath,
stinsonmarri

I am not an expert on the topic, but it seems difficult to justify doing away with the Jubilee of Lev. 25 while maintaining that the 7 appointed days in Lev. 23 are still binding. If you think they are binding, that is fine. But from my perspective, I'm seeing some inconsistencies in your theology. Not to come across as confrontational... I've just been reading these arguments across several threads (p.s. I also read the essay you shared with me) and I'm still unconvinced Scripturally.

Sure there is a fine argument for keeping these times... but I struggle to see a solid biblical argument. For me this is problematic.

 

[JDMiowa]

I will not get in to the Jubilee because it was not a requirement for us today to keep. However we still take unleavened bread this ritual was transferred over for us today. As Paul said to remove the unleaven of sin from our lives. 1 Cor 5:6-8

Happy Sabbath,
stinsonmarri

If your going to give your interpretation, please give a correct one. 1 Cor 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

 

[Martinman]

JDMiowa and AndrewK788​

One fact to realize is that the whole system of types was a prophecy of events in God's plan of salvation. Therefore, when the veil in the temple was torn from the top to the bottom and opened up the Most Holy Place to the view of the people, that WHOLE system of ritual services ended. It was a complete system. Not all of the real events have occurred yet, but they surely will. The reality of the events began at the death of the Lamb of God.​

That said, for us to be able to understand these real events we must study the requirements and timing of the ritual services. The significance and meaning of these is so great.​

The Jubilee trumpet was blown announcing the Jubilee on the Day of Atonement of the Jubilee year (Leviticus 25:8-10). The Israelites were required to grant liberty to all their slaves at that time. Some Hebrew slaves had received freedom in the Sabbatical year, the year previous to the Jubilee year (Deuteronomy 15:1,2, 12) The price was paid for the release from the curse and bondage of sin for every human being by the Lamb of God. But the release itself waits until the Sabbatical and Jubilee years to be accomplished, just as the type shows us.​

Daniel's wrote about the Messiah being “cutoff”, and said that it would be in the “midst of the week” (Daniel 9:26, 27). The Jubilee never occurred in the middle of the 7-year Sabbatical cycle. It always occurred the year after the 7th Sabbatical cycle was completed. One can easily check and verify the fact that the year of the crucifixion of 31 C.E. was the middle of the first 7-year cycle of years in the 50-year cycle.​

Leviticus 25:8-10 “And thou shalt number seven Sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven Sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years. Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubilee to sound on the tenth [day] of the seventh month,..”​

We cannot go by an assumption or what might seem to be connected, we must have a direct word from the Lord of just how He wants us to count the years, etc.​

“And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout [all] the land...” Leviticus 25:10​

 

[Martinman]

AndrewK788​

All of the types were not fulfilled at the time of Christ's death at Calvary, although the whole system of types ended, when the real events in God's plan began. The whole schedule of the types was connected to the first new moon of the year and to the seventh new moon of the year. When Christ was on earth He fulfilled most of the types connected with the first new moon of the year. The Day of Pentecost was fulfilled after He had ascended to heaven.​

Some of the types connected to the seventh new moon of the year have had a prophetic fulfillment in 1844. But the literal fulfillment of these is yet future. The Apostle Peter connected the events of the Day of Atonement, the blotting out of sins, to be at the time of the refreshing (Acts 3:19, 20) at the time that God would send Jesus to this earth again.​

“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ,...” Acts 3:19. 20​

 

[Castaway57]

If your going to give your interpretation, please give a correct one. 1 Cor 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Very good points.

 

[stinsonmarri]

JD and Castaway:

My response to your comments:

If your going to give your interpretation, please give a correct one. 1 Cor 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Your my friend do not know what interpretation means, my advice look it up. I know that even today we eat unleaven bread for YAHSHUA'S supper.

Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 1Co 5:6

Let me see a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump means exactly what is says. Today we say one bad apple spoil the whole basket. Do you get it? So if you have one sin still present guess what it spoils everything!

Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even YAHSHUA our PASSOVER is sacrificed for us: 1Co 5:7

Get rid of old sin that you may be spotless before the MOST HIGH. YAHSHUA has pass over in death for me! HIS blood is on the doorpost of my heart. I am not interpreting that either

Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 1Co 5:8

So now Paul says let's keep this Holy Appointed Set Time not with old leaven and not with any sin. Paul kept the day of Unleavened Bread and Pentecost so understanding is the best thing in the world!

And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days. For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hasted, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost. Act 20:6, 16

But I will tarry at Ephesus until Pentecost. 1Co16:8

Happy Sabbath,
stinsonmarri

 

[AndrewK788]

Observing that Paul often was present at the keeping of Passover's and Pentecosts is not evidence that it is to be kept. Paul was a Jew and carried great repute within the Jewish community. Certainly, he would always be laboring with his countrymen whenever he had the chance, and what better time than during the feasts when so many were gathered together?

You use the writings of Paul to prove these times ought to be kept, yet ironically it is Paul who gives the greatest evidence in Scripture that they are not binding upon Christians. It is this same line of reasoning that Sunday-keepers use when trying to usurp the seventh-day Sabbath. They point to the NT and say that the disciples met on the first day of the week. So what?

"Quod probat nimiss, probat nihil."

 

[JDMiowa]

JDMiowa and AndrewK788​

One fact to realize is that the whole system of types was a prophecy of events in God's plan of salvation. Therefore, when the veil in the temple was torn from the top to the bottom and opened up the Most Holy Place to the view of the people, that WHOLE system of ritual services ended. It was a complete system. Not all of the real events have occurred yet, but they surely will. The reality of the events began at the death of the Lamb of God.​

That said, for us to be able to understand these real events we must study the requirements and timing of the ritual services. The significance and meaning of these is so great.​

The Jubilee trumpet was blown announcing the Jubilee on the Day of Atonement of the Jubilee year (Leviticus 25:8-10). The Israelites were required to grant liberty to all their slaves at that time. Some Hebrew slaves had received freedom in the Sabbatical year, the year previous to the Jubilee year (Deuteronomy 15:1,2, 12) The price was paid for the release from the curse and bondage of sin for every human being by the Lamb of God. But the release itself waits until the Sabbatical and Jubilee years to be accomplished, just as the type shows us.​

Daniel's wrote about the Messiah being “cutoff”, and said that it would be in the “midst of the week” (Daniel 9:26, 27). The Jubilee never occurred in the middle of the 7-year Sabbatical cycle. It always occurred the year after the 7th Sabbatical cycle was completed. One can easily check and verify the fact that the year of the crucifixion of 31 C.E. was the middle of the first 7-year cycle of years in the 50-year cycle.​

Leviticus 25:8-10 “And thou shalt number seven Sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven Sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years. Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubilee to sound on the tenth [day] of the seventh month,..”​

We cannot go by an assumption or what might seem to be connected, we must have a direct word from the Lord of just how He wants us to count the years, etc.​

“And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout [all] the land...” Leviticus 25:10​

When do you think the Jubilee started? At the stoning of Steven? And why?

 

[Martinman]

When do you think the Jubilee started? At the stoning of Steven? And why?

Did you mean when Israel first kept the Jubilee in type? or did you mean which year is the actual historical Jubilee year? I'll try to answer what I think you are asking with some of the evidence that I have found. Of course, evidence must be inspired to be genuine evidence, or it must corroborate inspired evidence. The year 34 C. E. was the first year in the second Sabbatical cycle of 7 years, going toward the 50-year Jubilee.

Elijah, the prophet, prophesied that the Son of David would appear on the 85th Jubilee counting from creation. Isaiah, the prophet, prophesying of this Jubilee, declared that the Spirit of the Lord would anoint the Messiah to set at liberty those who were bound (Isaiah 61:1, 2). Christ declared the Jubilee after reading Isaiah 61:1, 2, in the synagogue on the Sabbath Day of Atonement by declaring, "This day is this Scripture fulfilled in your ears." He omitted the phrase, "and the day of vengeance of our God." since it did not apply to that particular Jubilee year. Then we have Josephus, the first century Jewish historian All point to spring 27 C.E. to spring 28 C.E. as the historical Jubilee year.

By His fulfillment of the Jubilee, Jesus divided the Jubilee prophecy of Isaiah 61 into two distinct fulfillments, “To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,” at the beginning of His public ministry at His first coming, and, “the day of vengeance of our God” just before His second coming. In the synagogue on the Sabbath, the Day of Atonement of the Jubilee year, in the autumn of 27 C.E., He proclaimed the Jubilee by reading the Jubilee prophecy of Isaiah 61:1, 2 (Luke 4:16-21). He stopped in the middle of the sentence, omitting the phrase, “and the day of vengeance of our God.” (“thegreat and dreadful day of the LORD:” Malachi 4:5) He closed the book and then proclaimed, “This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.” Luke 4:21, thus the Messiah fulfilled the “shadow” Sabbath specifications of the Day of Atonement in that Jubilee year by His fulfillment of it on a 7thday Sabbath that Jubilee year.(Also notice the Bible cross-referencing for Luke 4:16-21 and Isaiah 61:1,2 which refer back to the Jubilee prophecy of Leviticus 25:8-10)

Josephus, the first century Jewish historian, in the book, “JOSEPHUS COMPLETE WORKS,” p. 706, begins his list of the ancient Jubilee years with the year, “1787-1786 B.C.E.” and ends the list with his last recorded Jubilee year of “27-28 C.E.” (spring to spring) the very year that Jesus proclaimed the Jubilee on the Day of Atonement, in the autumn of 27 C.E.

The ancient Hebrew calendar (Hillel I) begins the new year with the new moon after the spring equinox, and ends the following spring with the first new moon after the spring equinox.Later, the Hillel II calendar adopted between 354 C.E. and 360 C.E. began the year with the nearest new moon to the spring equinox, which could be either before it or after it. There were only 7 months in this sacred year involving the sanctuary services, although the count of the months continued until the new moon after the next spring equinox. However, the end of the seventh month was generally considered the end of the sacred year. (Exodus 23:14-17, 34:22-23)

In the ancient Hebrew writings is recorded an amazing prophecy made by Elijah, the prophet, regarding the appearing of the Messiah in connection with the Jubilee year.

“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Elijah told Judah, the brother of Sala Hasida, 'The world will endure not less than 85 Jubilees, and on the last Jubilee the Son of David will come.” (Sanh.97b) [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]from the book, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]“[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Sabbatical Year and [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jubilee[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]”[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], p. 581-582 (Jewish Synagogue Library)[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]No one knows exactly how long the earth endured from the creation of the world until man fell into sin,[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]but it would not have been much over the time of two Jubilees (a period of 98 years), as Adam's third son was born when Adam was one hundred and thirty years old[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif](Genesis 5:3) and Abel had just been killed by Cain. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]From the entrance of sin until the Jubilee year of 27 C.E. when Jesus started His public ministry, could have been about 4067 years or 83 Jubilee cycles, which consequently would have been 85 Jubilees after creation, fitting exactly this recorded prophecy of Elijah.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]In these [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]same ancient Hebrew writings[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] is stated, [/FONT]

“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The sages ... reckoned the historical order and the end of time by Sabbatical Years and Jubilees.[/FONT]”[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]from the book, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]“[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Sabbatical Year and Jubilee[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]”[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] , p. 581 (Jewish Synagogue Library)[/FONT]

“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Israel counted 17 Jubilees from the time they entered the land to the time they left it” (Ar. 12b). [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]from the book,[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]“[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Sabbatical Year and Jubilee[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]”[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] , p. 581 (Jewish Synagogue Library) [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]God's instruction to Moses was that they should begin the count of the Jubilee cycle, from the time they entered the land of Canaan.[/FONT]

“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Speak unto the children of Israel, and [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]say unto them[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]When ye come into the land[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] which I give you,[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] then shall the [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]land keep a Sabbath[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] unto the LORD. Six years thou shalt sow thy field,[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] and gather in the fruit thereof[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]; But in the seventh year shall be a [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Sabbath of rest unto the land[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], ... thou shalt number [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]seven Sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]; and the space of the [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]seven Sabbaths of years[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] shall be unto thee [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]forty and nine years[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]...Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the Jubilee to sound on the [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]tenth day of the seventh month,...And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and proclaim liberty...” [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 25:2-4, 9, 10 [/FONT]

Christ's fulfillment of the Jubilee on the 7thday Sabbath, the Day of Atonement of that Jubilee year, in the autumn of 27 C.E., gives us the interpretation of the final fulfillment of the Jubilee, “the day of vengeance of our God,” Isaiah 61:1, 2, which will, also, occur on the Day of Atonement, on a 7thday Sabbath of a future Jubilee year.

 

[stinsonmarri]

Andrew:

Responding to your comments:

Observing that Paul often was present at the keeping of Passover's and Pentecosts is not evidence that it is to be kept. Paul was a Jew and carried great repute within the Jewish community. Certainly, he would always be laboring with his countrymen whenever he had the chance, and what better time than during the feasts when so many were gathered together?
You use the writings of Paul to prove these times ought to be kept, yet ironically it is Paul who gives the greatest evidence in Scripture that they are not binding upon Christians. It is this same line of reasoning that Sunday-keepers use when trying to usurp the seventh-day Sabbath. They point to the NT and say that the disciples met on the first day of the week. So what?

First if you notice the Text did not say passover again most do not read or observe. YAHWEH never ever called the Uleavened Bread the passover. The Jews presenting a lie just like the Catholic and the Protestants try to attempt do away with the Sabbath.

And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it. And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it. And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is YAHWEH'S passover. Ex 12:7, 8, 11

Now the Holy day of Unleavened Bread drew nigh, which is called the passover. Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, when the passover must be killed. And HE sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.Luke 22:1, 7, 8

The whole point of writing letters to the Indo-European people was the way they were treated even by the Jewish converts. Remember that most seem to forget this people were not like by the Jews at all. The Jews had the same problems of today-prejudice and racism. That is why it is crazy to think that anyone would give their son a Greek name! Secondly they were considered as second class to ELOHIM by the Jews. They thought they were closer to ELOHIM like the Protestants and Catholic today. Once these denominations hated the Jews as much as they hated black people. You should find out why? Here the Jews once again made up rules and had a petition in the courtyard. Have you read Acts 10 and 11 and Paul had to withstand Peter being a certain way around the Jews another around the Greeks! Finally Paul did not change anything at all. Paul was comforting these Colossians telling them what was nail to the SAVIOR'S tree. Paul was talking in that time to that group a people and those who do not want to obey will alway find some type of excuse not too! Paul was telling these Greek people that the Jews had no right in judging them in them taking the new supper and in observing correctly ELOHIM'S Appointed Set Times which also includes the Sabbath. What's so sad is no one is condeming anyone today, its your choice to keep them or not. It is correct for those who want to present the truth and what we show will be the results when you stand before YAHWEH'S Throne! HE is the ONE who will Judge us all in the end!

It is perfectly clear in both the Old and the New Testament that both YAHWEH and YAHSHUA showed that the passover was a supper and not a day. The Jews are just as guilty of taken away truth of the Sanctuary message. Paul did not say passover because that was nailed to the tree. He however used the word leaven and unleaven which keeps in step with what happen at the last passover meal. What took it place only was YAHSHUA'S supper and wine now was introduced to represent HIS shed blood. During the passover meal YAHSHUA took unleaven bread broke and bless it and gave it to HIS disciples the same with the wine. Paul was not writing this letter to us but to someone during his time who knew exactly what he was talking about. We today refuse to believe and try to make Paul say something he never said!

Blessings,
stinsonmarri

 

[AndrewK788]

Andrew:

Responding to your comments:

Observing that Paul often was present at the keeping of Passover's and Pentecosts is not evidence that it is to be kept. Paul was a Jew and carried great repute within the Jewish community. Certainly, he would always be laboring with his countrymen whenever he had the chance, and what better time than during the feasts when so many were gathered together?
You use the writings of Paul to prove these times ought to be kept, yet ironically it is Paul who gives the greatest evidence in Scripture that they are not binding upon Christians. It is this same line of reasoning that Sunday-keepers use when trying to usurp the seventh-day Sabbath. They point to the NT and say that the disciples met on the first day of the week. So what?

First if you notice the Text did not say passover again most do not read or observe. YAHWEH never ever called the Uleavened Bread the passover. The Jews presenting a lie just like the Catholic and the Protestants try to attempt do away with the Sabbath.

And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it. And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it. And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is YAHWEH'S passover. Ex 12:7, 8, 11

Now the Holy day of Unleavened Bread drew nigh, which is called the passover. Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, when the passover must be killed. And HE sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.Luke 22:1, 7, 8

The whole point of writing letters to the Indo-European people was the way they were treated even by the Jewish converts. Remember that most seem to forget this people were not like by the Jews at all. The Jews had the same problems of today-prejudice and racism. That is why it is crazy to think that anyone would give their son a Greek name! Secondly they were considered as second class to ELOHIM by the Jews. They thought they were closer to ELOHIM like the Protestants and Catholic today. Once these denominations hated the Jews as much as they hated black people. You should find out why? Here the Jews once again made up rules and had a petition in the courtyard. Have you read Acts 10 and 11 and Paul had to withstand Peter being a certain way around the Jews another around the Greeks! Finally Paul did not change anything at all. Paul was comforting these Colossians telling them what was nail to the SAVIOR'S tree. Paul was talking in that time to that group a people and those who do not want to obey will alway find some type of excuse not too! Paul was telling these Greek people that the Jews had no right in judging them in them taking the new supper and in observing correctly ELOHIM'S Appointed Set Times which also includes the Sabbath. What's so sad is no one is condeming anyone today, its your choice to keep them or not. It is correct for those who want to present the truth and what we show will be the results when you stand before YAHWEH'S Throne! HE is the ONE who will Judge us all in the end!

It is perfectly clear in both the Old and the New Testament that both YAHWEH and YAHSHUA showed that the passover was a supper and not a day. The Jews are just as guilty of taken away truth of the Sanctuary message. Paul did not say passover because that was nailed to the tree. He however used the word leaven and unleaven which keeps in step with what happen at the last passover meal. What took it place only was YAHSHUA'S supper and wine now was introduced to represent HIS shed blood. During the passover meal YAHSHUA took unleaven bread broke and bless it and gave it to HIS disciples the same with the wine. Paul was not writing this letter to us but to someone during his time who knew exactly what he was talking about. We today refuse to believe and try to make Paul say something he never said!

Blessings,
stinsonmarri

You spent most of the post discussing Passover (and made some valid points), but I also had mentioned Pentecost in my original post, but you didn't specifically address it. I know this has been an ongoing debate in many threads, but we've interacted enough that I believe you know I am sincerely trying to understand where you are coming from. So far, I still cannot wrap my mind around a solid biblical case for these times being binding upon Christians in any way.

I don't mean this as a challenge, but an honest request. Show me succinctly from the Bible how these are still binding. I am not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying I've not seen a solid biblical basis yet. I've read essays and winding narratives, have read every Scripture, have studied the topic myself, and have yet to come to the conclusion that we ought to keep these days.

Would you jusy say I am deceived? Because I am certainly approaching this issue with prayerful sincerity to the best of my ability...