144000?

[anthony55]

The 144000 are another way of saying the seed of Abraham,, unless one denies they would have been of His seed.

And the seed of Abraham, are all those who belong to Christ gal 3:


29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Now, if ye insist that the twelve tribes or the 144000 belong to Abraham's fleshly descendants, then you run into a problem with rom 9:


8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Now since the 14400 are said to be the servants of God rev 7:


1And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Then the 144000 must be children of Promise ! If not, then they are of the flesh and not Children of God.​

 

[heritage36]

Anthony55, have you read Revelation 7 before?

 

[anthony55]

Anthony55, have you read Revelation 7 before?

Plenty of times and romans 9 too : rom 9


8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[heritage36]

Do you think Rev 7 is not being straight forward when it in detail describes the 144000 then?

 

[anthony55]

canuk:

what i like about the 144,000 is that they are without guile. they dont lie.

Thats because they are covered with Christ Righteousness and not their own. All The Chosen in Christ are without Guile.

rev 14:5

And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

1 thess 5:23

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

eph 1:

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Without blame, the same word is used in rev 14 5 without fault.

eph 5:

27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

So rev 14 5 is none other than the blood washed Church, Chosen in Christ.

Those who belong to Christ, The seed of Abraham gal 3:


29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Abraham's seed is The 144000 !

 

[heritage36]

Hasn't there more than 144000 Jews throughout history to roam this earth?

 

[anthony55]

Do you think Rev 7 is not being straight forward when it in detail describes the 144000 then?

Yes I do. But the seed of Abraham according to the Flesh are not the Children of God, do you believe paul is being straight forward in rom 9:8 ?

rom 9:

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[anthony55]

Hasn't there more than 144000 Jews throughout history to roam this earth?

What that has to do with rom 9 8 ?

 

[heritage36]

I honestly think you are putting way too much into that verse, anthony55. I think you will find you understand the 144000 more clearly when you do not try to involve that verse, which is completely unecessary when it comes to this topic. What makes you feel so strongly that verse is important to the topic at hand?

 

[anthony55]

I honestly think you are putting way too much into that verse, anthony55. I think you will find you understand the 144000 more clearly when you do not try to involve that verse, which is completely unecessary when it comes to this topic. What makes you feel so strongly that verse is important to the topic at hand?

You are saying the 144000 are physical jews, which spring from the loins of Abraham Naturally. If thats what you believe, then they are not The Children of God, you cannot put the word of God against itself.

Rom 9:

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[heritage36]

You can stop quoting that verse, lol, we all get it by now, you like that verse. If these 144000 are elite and chosen to be involved with judging the people, wouldn't you think then that they are worthy and called children of God by the Lord? Does it say anywhere anyways that these 144000 have to be called children of God?

 

[anthony55]

You can stop quoting that verse, lol, we all get it by now, you like that verse. If these 144000 are elite and chosen to be involved with judging the people, wouldn't you think then that they are worthy and called children of God by the Lord? Does it say anywhere anyways that these 144000 have to be called children of God?

rom 9:

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

If they are not the Children of God, then they are the children of the devil.

 

[heritage36]

Okay, I give up, lol

 

[anthony55]

Okay, I give up, lol

rom 9:

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

I don't believe the 144,000 are literal Jews. Since there is no more Jew or Greek and God now choses those who are in him to accomplish his work. That is the theme of the NT. We can't just switch and say that the 144,000 are literal Jews.

Whether or not the 144,000 is the actual number or a representative number I do not know. The 70 weeks of Daniel 9 are completed already so there is no 70th week for Israel to do anything. Daniel 7 has been fulfilled already. The judgement has already taken place and God has already taken the government on his shoulder.

 

[anthony55]

I don't believe the 144,000 are literal Jews. Since there is no more Jew or Greek and God now choses those who are in him to accomplish his work. That is the theme of the NT. We can't just switch and say that the 144,000 are literal Jews.

Whether or not the 144,000 is the actual number or a representative number I do not know. The 70 weeks of Daniel 9 are completed already so there is no 70th week for Israel to do anything. Daniel 7 has been fulfilled already. The judgement has already taken place and God has already taken the government on his shoulder.

The seventieth week is over at the 2nd coming, which is shortly, probably within the next couple of years if not sooner.

 

[Mess]

I don't believe the 144,000 are literal Jews. Since there is no more Jew or Greek and God now choses those who are in him to accomplish his work. That is the theme of the NT. We can't just switch and say that the 144,000 are literal Jews.

Whether or not the 144,000 is the actual number or a representative number I do not know. The 70 weeks of Daniel 9 are completed already so there is no 70th week for Israel to do anything. Daniel 7 has been fulfilled already. The judgement has already taken place and God has already taken the government on his shoulder.

Actually the theme of the NT is that the way to salvation is now open for the Gentiles just as much as for The Jews, something that is only open to us because of the blindness of the Jews. It's why it's called the age of the Gentiles, this age ends with the start of the trib. That does not change the position of the Jews. Saying the Jews don't hold a dear position for the Lord anymore, isn't only saying God is a liar, but is also a case of misreading, or ignoring scripture. To say that God is done with the Jews means you will have to ignore scripture including Isaiah 17/Psalm 86 and Ezekiel38. You'd have to ignore the regathering of the Jews, you'd have to ignore the rebirth of the nation of Israel, you'd have to ignore the dispersion of the Jews, you'd have to ignore the rebirth of the Hebrew language, you'd have to ignore the return of all the tribes of Israel, you'd have to ignore Zechariah 13, you'd have to ignore the preservation of the Jews, you'd have to ignore prophecies regarding Israel being the centre of the world politics in end times, you'd have to ignore Romans 11 where Paul actually says God has not cast away His people(note for anthony this means the descendants of Abraham), you'd have to ignore Hosea 3:4-5 which says "For the sons of Israel will remain for many days without king or prince . . . Afterward, the sons of Israel will return and seek the Lord their God . . . and they will come trembling to the Lord and to His goodness in the last days."
Jesus said he would return when the Gentile control of Jerusalem is over, again gentiles being Israel? Don't make me laugh, or cry actually because such an attitude is just sad and pathetic.
Romans 9:4 actually teaches God still has a covenant with the Jews, again ignoring much?
God's faithfullness to His people does not depend on theirs to Him, Romans 3:3
God never set an escape clause in His covenant with the Jews, so why are we?
There is more, which I've left out, but that is a lot of ignoring to do. Which requires blindness to do really. And I find it sad to see Christians putting down the people we should be helping in their hour of need, as we have been commanded to do.

As for Daniel's 70th week having completed, I fully disagree with you

 

[anthony55]

mess:

Saying the Jews don't hold a dear position for the Lord anymore, isn't only saying God is a liar, but is also a case of misreading, or ignoring scripture.

Rom 9:


8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Abrahams Children of the Flesh has never been dear to God, they were not His Children.

God has not cast away His people(note for anthony this means the descendants of Abraham),

God has not cast away His People He foreknew, but He cast away the Phyical seed of Abraham, because they were not His Children, He did not know them like that rom 9:


8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[anthony55]

mess:

Romans 9:4 actually teaches God still has a covenant with the Jews, again ignoring much?

Not the Physical jews of the Flesh, because Rom 9:

rom 9:


8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[Jazer]

Do you believe they are the only ones going to heaven?

They are the ones that represent God, they stand as a priest before God. By undefiled that means their DNA is pure. They are 100% Hebrew.