12 Steps

[themessagecarrier]

Since 1981 I've been involved with the Christian 12 Step Program. This is the original program before it became watered down to "God as we understood Him". I was taken through the steps by someone who was taken through them as they originally were meant to be. The Steps are backed by well over 100 scripture verses.

 

[devonian]

Do you wish to expand on this...

What is the name of the program?
Where can I read about it?
Can you provide the list of the 100 verses?

 

[zachly]

For the newbie in AA, or especially SA, where the guilt and shame one feels evokes desperation and a great need just to talk about things, biblical scriptures are not so important at first. As the days turn to weeks and the addictive cycle, since the last fix, starts to wear on the human psyche, will-power is just not enough. It seems to take a combination of both input from fellow travelers and biblical scriptures to get one thru the next lonely period of bodily cravings. Sometimes thats not even enough because of the degree of inherent daily stress one has to endure; hence, one slips back into the addiction praying for forgiveness (1 Jn 1.9) and vowing to do better hencforth.
Yeah, in this politically correct generation we're in, trying not to offend those of other faiths, I can see where the original AA protocol has gotten watered down.

 

[Garyzenuf]

Yes, now a days we chose our own concept of God (many of my friends chose Jesus), and pray to have our obsesion removed, this seems to happen with anyone who tries, regardless what their concept of God may be. Weird Huh? Must be all that watering down.

 

[MyHeroIsJesus]

Choosing one's own concept of God absolutely has everything to do with AA being accepted by all. In AA there is only room for Christ if you do not say anything about Christ in a meeting. Would AA benefit from having; Christian AA, Hindu AA, etc.? No! We benefit the most when we acknowledge that Jesus is the answer to our problems. Calling something Christian and it actually being Christian are two totally different things. Is AA a delay in finding the true answer to our problems, or is it exactly what God intended? I believe it can be a vehicle to lead us to God, if presented as it was initially intended.

 

[Garyzenuf]

It was intended IMO to help people who were dying of alcoholism, not to lead people to Jesus. I believe many of the founders of AA would have wished others in the program to chose Jesus as they had, but I believe one of their main concerns was to keep it non-exclusive, open to all.

And you're right, AA has led many to Christ, but what ever religion people choose, or none at all, the most important thing is at some point they acknowledge a power greater than themselves, so they can remain sober.

 

[BobW188]

AA's First Tradition is that the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. It exists solely to help those who wish to do so.

AA got started in two places: New York, (Bill Wilson); and Akron Ohio (Dr. Bob Smith). The Akron contingent was largely Christian, the New York group more diverse, including some skeptics and probably some agnostics. The "Power greater than ourselves" phrase was adopted at the first national AA convention back in the 1930s as a compromise.

 

[MyHeroIsJesus]

It was intended IMO to help people who were dying of alcoholism, not to lead people to Jesus. I believe many of the founders of AA would have wished others in the program to chose Jesus as they had, but I believe one of their main concerns was to keep it non-exclusive, open to all.

And you're right, AA has led many to Christ, but what ever religion people choose, or none at all, the most important thing is at some point they acknowledge a power greater than themselves, so they can remain sober.

I think you are correct on both points. It has been my experience that people who are born again in Christ are saved from the sin called alcoholism and no longer have to focus on remaining sober but have true joy in abiding in Christ. Abiding in Christ tranforms. Christ is not religion, IMO religion is ritual. Christ is freedom. So, I contend that once you are comfortable with the higher power and fall into the revolving door of relapse, what better way to truly tranform your life than through Christ our Saviour. I realize there is more to this than what we have posted, but we have to start somewhere.

 

[MyHeroIsJesus]

AA's First Tradition is that the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. It exists solely to help those who wish to do so.

That would work, if drinking were the root of the problem. For most people it is all sin, not just the sin of drinking excessively.

AA got started in two places: New York, (Bill Wilson); and Akron Ohio (Dr. Bob Smith). The Akron contingent was largely Christian, the New York group more diverse, including some skeptics and probably some agnostics. The "Power greater than ourselves" phrase was adopted at the first national AA convention back in the 1930s as a compromise.

Must we compromise to save lives?

 

[Garyzenuf]

I think you are correct on both points. It has been my experience that people who are born again in Christ are saved from the sin called alcoholism and no longer have to focus on remaining sober but have true joy in abiding in Christ. Abiding in Christ tranforms. Christ is not religion, IMO religion is ritual. Christ is freedom. So, I contend that once you are comfortable with the higher power and fall into the revolving door of relapse, what better way to truly tranform your life than through Christ our Saviour. I realize there is more to this than what we have posted, but we have to start somewhere.

Agreed, yet many I see in AA do not fall into the revolving door of relapse, and do not believe in Jesus as their God.

Aside (if I can honestly put it aside) from removing my obsession with alcohol, the greatest gift AA has given me is the knowledge of Gods reality. That knowledge has led me to Christ as my savior, but many others have choosen a different concept of God.

Indeed AA has been used as a stepping stone to new found, or renewed belief in a higher power, according to peoples own lights. Your concept at the begining is not as important as beliving in something more powerful than yourself. Gets one acquainted with humility.

One of the AA steps start with "Came to believe...", my friends and I like breaking that down to 3 separate actions 1. Came. 2. Came to. and finally, 3. Came to believe.... it seems more important to keep newcomers alive, than what their initial concept of God may be.

BTW, I'd just like to add that these are my own personal thoughts, and as such do not neccasarally(sp) reflect AA as a whole, as the fellowship holds no opinion on outside issues.

Ooops...just read your last post MHIS, and ...ummm...yeah I think we do have to compromise to save lives. Sorry.

 

[MyHeroIsJesus]

Agreed, yet many I see in AA do not fall into the revolving door of relapse, and do not believe in Jesus as their God.

Aside (if I can honestly put it aside) from removing my obsession with alcohol, the greatest gift AA has given me is the knowledge of Gods reality. That knowledge has led me to Christ as my savior, but many others have choosen a different concept of God.

Indeed AA has been used as a stepping stone to new found, or renewed belief in a higher power, according to peoples own lights. Your concept at the begining is not as important as beliving in something more powerful than yourself. Gets one acquainted with humility.

Christ has given me the opportunity to overcome all of the sin in my life, not just a single issue, and I love Him for it. Six months ago that winkin' smiley would have triggered one of my phobia. Thank you for your kindness in your responses.

One of the AA steps start with "Came to believe...", my friends and I like breaking that down to 3 separate actions 1. Came. 2. Came to. and finally, 3. Came to believe.... it seems more important to keep newcomers alive, than what their initial concept of God may be.

BTW, I'd just like to add that these are my own personal thoughts, and as such do not neccasarally(sp) reflect AA as a whole, as the fellowship holds no opinion on outside issues.

Ooops...just read your last post MHIS, and ...ummm...yeah I think we do have to compromise to save lives. Sorry.

Thank you. No need to apologize, I was just posing a question. I would also offer this; if AA where still a solidly Christian program, would more lives be saved? Given the statistic on AA/12 Step Programs that indicate that it might cause more people to just prolong/put-off their problem and when there is nothing substantial left to hold onto they relapse and possibly die. Could that be because of the worship of a false god/idol? The Pharisee's had a very good understanding of God yet they still denied Christ. I am only asking these questions to try and understand how to better carry the message.

 

[BobW188]

I doubt that any AA would claim that it is an answer to the larger problem of sin. Indeed, anyone who's done a halfway honest Fourth Step inventory is going to be very well aware he or she has a great deal of praying and changing to do. Those are best done sober.
Keep in mind that the lives we save in AA are each other's. If we can't compromise to do that, we are fools indeed.

 

[Garyzenuf]

Christ has given me the opportunity to overcome all of the sin in my life, not just a single issue, and I love Him for it.

And I'm glad you do, I think alcohol can fill that God shaped hole in all of us. Whether its drugs, food, sex, work, an obsession to fill that hole can actually kill us. IMO even the people who say they don't believe in a God, upon earnestly talking to them, you may well find them bowing down to something.

I believe 12 step programs ALL create stepping stones to a belief in God. I think everyone who wants that, should be given the opportunity to find God for themselves. So to me it makes sense to keep it non-exclusive.

If AA's purpose was to spread christianity, then I would agree its been watered down, but I believe its purpose is to help people stop drinking, at which, I think its doing a job.

 

[madison1101]

One of the key phrases I have heard in most of the 12 step rooms I have been in is "Take what you like and leave the rest." For me, that means I go into my meetings, and work my steps and share my love for the other alcoholics the best I can. When the topic is "God as I understand Him," which happens about once a week, I share that Jesus is part of my God equation. In my personal sharing with my sponsor, or friends, I pray for opportunities to share my faith. More importantly, I pray that my life will be a testimony of Him, a silent witness of the Gospel of Christ.

God is not limited by the phrase "as I understand Him." I don't think I should be either.

 

[Garyzenuf]

Do you believe AA is watered down Madison1101, or do you think the steps still hold the same inspiration that started it in the first place?

 

[madison1101]

Do you believe AA is watered down Madison1101, or do you think the steps still hold the same inspiration that started it in the first place?

I believe that the answer to that is a matter of personal experience. Just as people come to church and approach God at different levels of intensity, at different stages in their spiritual development, there are as many different ways that people approach the 12 steps.

The first three steps are really challenging for most people who come in. Just as sinners struggle accepting their need for Christ, alcoholics struggle with the idea that they have a problem with alcohol and need God's help in dealing with it. Some are quicker to grasp and develop the spiritual life needed for recovery than others. Some never get it, and they go back out and drink again.

The key thing that I always emphaisze with my sharing is the importance of the steps. The program is the steps, not the meetings, or other things. Without the steps, I would not have been able to come to terms with my relationship with God. I was a Christian prior to AA, but had no clue how to work my relationship with God out so it made sense to me, and working the 12 steps helped me.

What I find interesting is that if more Christians came to church and served with the enthusiasm that the people do in AA, there would be a revival. When a newcomer comes into AA, they are put to work. The AA motto is "you have to give it away to keep it."

I hope this makes sense.

God bless.

Trish