100% of Scientists do not believe Darwin

lucaspa · Jan 3, 2003

Originally posted by JohnR7

Originally posted by lucaspa
John, if your purpose is proselytizing, why are you on a science forum?  Science is agnostic. [/QUOTE

This is a christian forum first. I came here to talk about science and how that relates to christianity. What I found was a bunch of skeptics, scoffers and mockers.

I only pray and seek to be well pleasing to God. It is up to Him who He will harden and those that He will soften their heart. God knows how to show His love to people and He knows how to draw people to Himself.  

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First off, at least half the posters are theists.  What you found was people who disagree with creationism, not Christianity.  That's OK, remember that of the 26 plaintiffs trying to get creationism out of public school science classes in the MacLean vs Arkansas suit in 1982, 23 were ministers or rabbis.  And the other 3 were Christian teachers.  Not a skeptic or scoffer in the bunch.

The question is: Is what you are doing really pleasing to God?  Does God really want Christianity to be incorrectly set up to be falsified? 

You say it is up to God to "harden and those that He will soften their heart".  Well, why are you trying so hard to harden hearts, then? Also, you apparently haven't thought thru the consequences of this statement.  If it is truly up to God, then us skeptics and scoffers aren't to blame for our agnosticism or atheism, are we?  According to you, God hasn't chosen to "soften our hearts". 

But the major point is that you aren't living up to your prayers.  You are not bringing people to Christianity but driving them away.  God may know how to draw people to Him, but you aren't doing that. 

Once again, Christianity has no more bitter and dangerous enemy than creationism.  Atheism and agnosticism (skeptics and scoffers) can't destroy Christianity, but creationism can!

Now, do you want to address that point or do you want to try and tell us what a good guy you are again? 

lucaspa · Jan 3, 2003

Originally posted by sulphur
Lucaspa could I have a list of your published work.

Carnell, W.T., Crosswhite, H.M., Pappalardo, R.G., Cohen, D., Fried, S., Lucas, P.A., and Wagner, F.Jr. Absorption Spectra af NpCl3 and NpBr3.  J. Chem. Phys. 61: 4993-4999, 1974

Lucas, P.A., Ophaug, R.H., and Singer, L.  Effect of vitamin A deficiency and fluoride on glycosaminoglycan metabolism in bone.  <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:State><st1

lace>Conn.</st1

lace></st1:State> Tiss. Res. 13: 17-26, 1984

Lucas, P.A. and Dziewiatkowski, D.D.  Feedback control of selected biosynthetic activities of chondrocytes in culture.  <st1:State><st1

lace>Conn.</st1

lace></st1:State> Tiss. Res. 16: 323-341, 1987.

Syftestad, G.T., Lucas, P.A., and Caplan, A.I. The in vitro[/U]  chondrogenic response of limb-bud mesenchyme to a water-soluble fraction prepared from demineralized bone matrix.  Differentiation 29: 230-237, 1985

Lucas, P.A., Syftestad, G.T., and Caplan, A.I.  Partial isolation and characterization of a chemotactic factor from adult bovine bone for mesenchymal cells.  Bone 7: 365-371, 1986.

Syftestad, G.T., Lucas, P.A., Ohgushi, H., and Caplan, A.I.  Chondrogenesis as an in vitroresponse to bioactive factors extracted from adult bone and non-skeletal tissues.  In:  Development and Diseases of Cartilage and Bone Matrix, (Sen, A. and Thornhill, T., eds.) UCLA Symposium on Molecular and Cellular Biology 46 pg 187, 1986

Lucas, P.A., Syftestad, G.T., and Caplan, A.I.  A water soluble fraction from adult bone stimulates the differentiation of cartilage in explants of embryonic muscle.  Differentiation 37:47-52, 1988
 
Lucas, P.A. and Caplan, A.I.  Chemotactic response of embryonic limb bud mesenchymal cells and muscle-derived fibroblasts to transforming growth factor beta.  <st1:State><st1

lace>Conn.</st1

lace></st1:State> Tiss. Res. 18:1-5, 1988
 
Lucas, P.A., Price, P.A., and Caplan, A.I.  Chemotactic response of mesenchymal cells, fibroblasts, and osteoblast-like cells to bone Gla protein.  Bone 9:319-323, 1988

Lucas, P.A., Syftestad, G.T., Goldberg, V.M. and Caplan, A.I.  Ectopic induction of cartilage and bone by water-soluble proteins from bone matrix using a collagenous delivery vehicle.   J. Biomed. Mat. Res. 23(A1): 23-29, 1989
 
Martin, R.B., Chow, B.D., and Lucas, P.A.  Bone marrow fat content in relation to bone remodeling and serum chemistry in intact and ovariectomized dogs.  Calcif. Tiss. Int., 46: 189-194, 1990

Lucas, P.A. Chemotactic response of osteoblast-like cells to TGF-beta.  Bone, 10: 459-463, 1990

Lucas, P.A., Laurencin, C., Syftestad, G.T., Domb, A., Goldberg, V.M., Caplan, A.I., and Langer, R.  Ectopic induction of cartilage and bone by water-soluble proteins from bovine bone using a polyanhydride delivery vehicle.  J. Biomed. Mat. Res.[/U] 24: 901-911, 1990

Bowerman, S.G., Taylor, S.S., Putnam, L., Young, H.E., and Lucas, P.A.,  Transforming growth factor-ß stimulates chondrogenesis in cultured embryonic mesenchymal cells.  Surgical Forum 42: 535-536, 1991

Shoptaw, J.H.Jr., Bowerman, S.G., Young, H.E., and Lucas, P.A.,  Use of gelfoam as a substrate for osteogenic cells of marrow.  Surgical Forum 42: 537-538, 1991

lucaspa · Jan 3, 2003

Originally posted by sulphur
Lucaspa could I have a list of your published work.

Hmm. Copying from my MS Word CV doesn't seem to have worked out so well. Hope you can find the list in here.

Hinton, J.L.Jr., Molnar, M., Lucas, P.A., McLendon, R.E., Laurencin, C., and Robinson, J.S.Jr.,  Reduction of postlaminectormy scar tissue.  Surgical Forum 42: 503-504, 1991

Young, H.E., <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1

lace><st1:City>Morrison</st1:City>, <st1:State>D.C.</st1:State></st1

lace>, Martin, J.D., and Lucas, P.A.  Cryopreservation of embryonic chick myogenic lineage-committed stem cells.  J. Tiss. Cult. Meth. 13: 275-284, 1991

Young, H.E., Sippel, J., Putnam, L.S., Lucas, P.A, and <st1

lace><st1:City>Morrison</st1:City>, <st1:State>D.C.</st1:State></st1

lace>.  Enzyme-linked immuno-culture assay (ELICA).  J. Tiss. Cult. Meth. 14: 31-36, 1992

Young, H.E., Ceballos, E.M., Smith, J.C., Lucas, P.A., and <st1

lace><st1:City>Morrison</st1:City>, <st1:State>D.C.</st1:State></st1

lace>  Isolation of embryonic chick myosatellite and pluripotent stem cells.  J. Tiss. Cult. Meth. 14: 85-92, 1992

Stevick, J.A., Putnam, L.S., and Lucas, P.A.  Delivering local factors to assist tissue healing.  Surgical Forum, 43: 556-558, 1992

Pate, D.W., Southerland, S.S., Grande, D.A., Young, H.E., and Lucas, P.A.,  Isolation and differentiation of mesenchymal stem cells from rabbit muscle.  Surgical Forum 44: 587-589, 1993

Young, H.E., Ceballos, E.M., Smith, J.C., Mancin, M.L., Wright, R.P., Ragan, B.L., Bushell, <st1

lace>I.</st1

lace>, and Lucas, P.A.  Pluripotent mesenchymal stem cells reside within avian connective tissue matrices.  In Vitro Cell. Dev. Biol. 29A: 723-736, 1993.
23. Young, H.E., Mancini, M.L., Wright, R.P., Smith, J.C., Black, A.C. Jr., Reagan, C.R., and Lucas, P.A.  Mesenchymal stem cells reside within the connective tissues of many organs.  Dev. Dyn. 202: 137-144, 1995

24. Hinton, J.L., Warejcka, D., Mei, Y., McLendon, R.E., Laurencin, C., Lucas, P.A., and Robinson, J.S.Jr.  Inhibition of epidural scar formation after lumbar laminectomy in the rat.   Spine, 20: 564-570, 1995
25. <st1:City><st1

lace>Rogers</st1

lace></st1:City>, J.J., Young, H.E., Adkinson, L.R., Lucas, P.A., and Black, A.C.Jr., Differentiation factors induce expression of muscle, fat, cartilage, and bone in a clone of mouse pluripotent mesenchymal stem cells.  Am. Surgeon, 61: 231-236, 1995

26. Southerland, S.S. and Lucas, P.A.  A novel method for the serum-free plating of stage 24 chick limb bud cells.  Methods in Cell Sci. 17: 17-23, 1995

Lucas, P.A., Calcutt, A.F., Southerland, S.S., <st1:City><st1

lace>Wilson</st1

lace></st1:City>, A., <st1:City><st1

lace>Harvey</st1

lace></st1:City>, R. Warejcka, D., and Young, H.E.  A population of cells resident within embryonic and newborn rat skeletal muscle is capable of differentiating into multiple mesodermal phenotypes.  Wound Repair and Regeneration, 3: 449-460, 1995

Grande, D.A., Southerland, S.S., Manji, R., Pate, D.W., Schwartz, R.E., and Lucas, P.A.  Repair of articular cartilage defects using mesenchymal stem cells.  Tissue Engineering 1: 345-353, 1995
 
Warejcka, D., <st1:City><st1

lace>Harvey</st1

lace></st1:City>, R.L, <st1:City><st1

lace>Taylor</st1

lace></st1:City>, B.J.Jr., Young, H.E., and Lucas, P.A.  Isolation of a population of mesenchymal stem cells from newborn rat heart. J. Surg. Res., 62:233-242, 1996.

lucaspa · Jan 3, 2003

Originally posted by sulphur
Lucaspa could I have a list of your published work.

Lucas, P.A., Warejcka, D.J., Zhang, L-M., Newman, W.H., and Young, H.E.  Effect of rat mesenchymal stem cells on development of abdominal adhesions after surgery.  J. Surg. Res., 62: 229-232 1996

<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City><st1

lace>Dixon</st1

lace></st1:City>, K., Murphy, R.W., Southerland, S.S., Young, H.E., and Lucas, P.A.  Recombinant human bone morphogenetic proteins-2 and 4 (rhBMP-2 and rhBMP-4) induce several mesenchymal phenotypes in culture.  Wound Repair and Regeneration, 4: 374-380, 1996.

Warejcka, D.J., Young, H.E., Bok Y. Lee, and Lucas, P.A.  Formation of abdominal adhesions is inhibited by antibodies to transforming growth factor-ß. J. Surg. Res., 65: 135-138, 1996

33.  Young HE, Rogers JJ, Adkison LR, Lucas PA, Black AC. Muscle morphogenetic protein induces myogenic gene expression in swiss-3T3 cells. Wound Repair Regen 6: 543-54, 1998

34.  Young HE, Wright RP, Mancini ML, Lucas PA, Reagan CR, Black AC Jr. Bioactive factors affect proliferation and phenotypic expression in progenitor and pluripotent stem cells. Wound Repair Regen. Jan-Feb;6(1):66-75, 1998.

35.  Young HE, Steele TA, Bray RA, Detmer K, Blake LW, Lucas PW, Black AC Jr. Human pluripotent and progenitor cells display cell surface cluster differentiation markers CD10, CD13, CD56, and MHC class-I. Proc Soc Exp Biol Med. 221(1):63-71, 1999.

36.  Young HE, Steele TA, Bray RA, Hudson J, Floyd JA, Hawkins K, Thomas K, Austin T, Edwards C, Cuzzourt J, Duenzl M, Lucas PA, Black AC Jr. Human reserve pluripotent mesenchymal stem cells are present in the connective tissues of skeletal muscle and dermis derived from fetal, adult, and geriatric donors.  Anat Rec. 2001 Sep 1;264(1):51-62.

37.  Romero-Ramos M, Vourc'h P, Young HE, Lucas PA, Wu Y, Chivatakarn O, Zaman R, Dunkelman N, El-Kalay MA, Chesselet MF. Neuronal differentiation of stem cells isolated from adult muscle.  J Neurosci Res. 2002 Sep 15;69(6):894-907.

sulphur · Jan 3, 2003

Lucaspa why didn't you look at the wording of the poll or ar'nt semantics a part of your expertise

lucaspa · Jan 3, 2003

Originally posted by sulphur
Lucaspa why didn't you look at the wording of the poll or ar'nt semantics a part of your expertise

I didn't respond to the poll. I responded to a specific statement by JohnR7.  And 100% of scientists do not think Darwin was right 100% of the time.

The poll itself is silly.

sulphur · Jan 3, 2003

thats what I hoped you would say

lucaspa · Jan 3, 2003

Originally posted by JohnR7
http://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe/11/10/ancestors/

"Around 80 per cent of European men are descended from a single primitive hunter, according to a new study."

The Bible talks about a man who was created on the 6 th day. .. But it is really not a problem, because the age in the DNA is not based on the oldest man or women. Just the olderst man or women that has decendants still alive today.

"About 8,000 years ago, said Underhill, a more advanced people, the Neolithic, migrated to Europe from the Middle East, bringing with them a new Y chromosome pattern and a new way of life: agriculture. About 20 percent of Europeans now have the Y chromosome pattern from this migration."

Now, isn't that interesting. The Bible talks about a man who was formed 6000 years ago, that was put in the garden of Eden, to tend the garden. He sas the first as the study shows to introduce agriculture. He had quite a profound effect on Europe.

John, please go back and read what you posted.  You have the refutation for your own conclusion in there: "the age in the DNA is not based on the oldest man or women. Just the olderst man or women that has decendants still alive today"  That does not mean the man or woman was alone then, either, does it?  Yet if you are using Genesis 2 as your creation story (ignoring, of course, the contradiction with Genesis 1) then there were only 2 people.

Of course, for that 8,000 year date, you are ignoring that we have cave pictures and skeletons of H. sapiens living in Europe going back 30,000 years.  You can't reconcile that 30,000 with 6,000.

What the data shows is that there was an influx of a new tribe 8,000 years ago and they replaced the older inhabitants according to the DNA strands being studied.

Also notice that the data is only for Europe. What you are doing, John, is known technically as "selective data".  You are looking at only the data that you think supports your hypothesis and ignoring all the data that refutes it.  That is not good science or even a good search for truth.  It is a form of false witness.

lucaspa · Jan 3, 2003

Originally posted by sulphur
thats what I hoped you would say

Then why the ad hominen?  Why not just ask my opinion of the poll?

sulphur · Jan 3, 2003

And thank you for indulgence in giving me a list of your published work

JohnR7 · Jan 3, 2003

Originally posted by lucaspa
no witnesses or evidence is no different from Moses saying he spoke to a burning bush with no witnesses or evidence. 

There is evidence, because here it is almost 3500 years later and the bush is still there. Also, if you want you can climb the 4000 steps up Mount Sinai and see where Moses went to speak with God. It is no wonder that he lived to be 120 and was strong right up to his departure, having to climb up that mountain everytime he wanted to talk to God. There might be a lesson in there for us.

http://www.geographia.com/egypt/sinai/burningbush.htm

http://www.geographia.com/egypt/sinai/mtsinai.htm

I KNOW the Bible is true and accurate
Accurate how? Theologically?  Scientifically?  Historically?  If the last two, then much of the Bible is false. 

Click to expand...

Yes, the Bible is 100% accurate Historically, Scientifically, and Theologically. In order to get to absolute 0 you have to get past Planck time, 10^-43 seconds where you find all the fire of the universe. A very intense heat. Do you think your work can survive a test of fire like that. Double: tried and tested: "Refined as silver is refined and tested as gold is tested."

 

 

For instance, rabbits don't chew their cud

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I just saw a post on that yesterday. Come on, I have my own work to do, don't ask me to repeat the work of someone else.

Jericho sacked in the time frame of the Exodus.

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The archaeological evidence is there. The walls fell down. What are you trying to say, the archologiest came up with a different time frame then the Bible?   Do you want to talk about acheology or Biology?

 There is on [URL="http://www.infidels.org a whole list of factual and historical errors in the Bible.

Click to expand...

Give it up and join us here in the real world. You don't go to infidels to learn about theology or the Bible. At least clonaid has Doctors and Phd's involved in their organization. What do the infidels claim to be experts at? Metaphysical Naturalism. So how does that qualify them to comment on the Bible or theology? They would know about as much about theology as a Biologist would. Talk about the blind leading the blind. Why do you waste my time with stuff like this? If you want to do the Romper Room thing let me know, we can grab the kids and go to the park to play. 

After all, wasn't Judaism changed after the life, death, and resurrection of Yeshu ben Joseph?  That was new data, and it required (in the opinion of the followers of Yeshu) changes in Judaism.  Changes so sweeping that they became a new religion.

Click to expand...

That covers a lot of ground. It would take a whole course in Bible collage to talk about that one. Christianity did not become totally seperate from the Hebrew faith 'tell 70 ad when the temple was tore down by the Romans and the people of Jerusalem were dispersed through out the world. Still, there are Messianic Jews where these is no seperation. Zola Levitte is a famous example, because he has a weekly TV program that you can tune into.

Paul explains it by saying the Hebrews were like a branch on a olive tree that was not producing fruit. So they were cut off and the gentiles as a wild branch was grafted in, so we could produce fruit. So we could be a witness and a testimony for God in this world. Then as I said, you still have Messianic Jews who are a natural branch, grafted into their own tree. They produce fruit and they are a witness and a testimony for God.

Or look at the dream of Peter in Acts.  That new data -- in the form of a dream -- caused all the dietary laws of Judaism to be tossed out.

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Not by me. I think we should follow the teaching of Moses. That dream was to show Peter that God was going to work though the gentiles. A group that Peter would have considered unclean.

There were three courts in the temple. The inner court where only the most Holy Priest could go. The middle court for the Hebrew people and the outer court for the gentiles. The gentiles were no longer considered unclean and confined to the outer court. In fact we can enter into the most Holy Place with boldness in and though the Blood of Jesus. It is the Blood that purifys and cleanses us.

JohnR7 · Jan 3, 2003

Originally posted by lucaspa
Now, do you want to address that point or do you want to try and tell us what a good guy you are again? 

It would appear you just want to fight and argue. I got better things to do. I am willing to help you, I am willing to work along with you. But I am not going to waste my time to argue with you. When your ready to get some work done, let me know.

JohnR7 · Jan 3, 2003

Originally posted by lucaspa
Of course, for that 8,000 year date, you are ignoring that we have cave pictures and skeletons of H. sapiens living in Europe going back 30,000 years. 

I do not think you read the artical that I gave you a link for. Where the Homo sapians living in Europe 30,000 years ago Hunter Gathers, or were they Agricultural?

The link said:

"About 8,000 years ago, said Underhill, a more advanced people, the Neolithic, migrated to Europe from the Middle East, bringing with them a new Y chromosome pattern and a new way of life: agriculture. About 20 percent of Europeans now have the Y chromosome pattern from this migration."

That would be the decendants of Adam in Ch. 2 of Genesis. Underhill's DNA research has just proved the Bible to be true. Right down to where they came from. The Garden of Eden was in the middle east. Where 4 rivers come together.

The people who were all ready in Europe would be decended from the male and female we read about in chapter one of Genesis. They were created on day 6. Adam was formed on day 8.

LewisWildermuth · Jan 3, 2003

Originally posted by JohnR7
I do not think you read the artical that I gave you a link for. Where the Homo sapians living in Europe 30,000 years ago Hunter Gathers, or were they Agricultural?

The link said:

"About 8,000 years ago, said Underhill, a more advanced people, the Neolithic, migrated to Europe from the Middle East, bringing with them a new Y chromosome pattern and a new way of life: agriculture. About 20 percent of Europeans now have the Y chromosome pattern from this migration."

That would be the decendants of Adam in Ch. 2 of Genesis. Underhill's DNA research has just proved the Bible to be true. Right down to where they came from. The Garden of Eden was in the middle east. Where 4 rivers come together.

The people who were all ready in Europe would be decended from the male and female we read about in chapter one of Genesis. They were created on day 6. Adam was formed on day 8.

Okay... So are you saying that the 80% of Europeans that do not have this gene are somehow less than human? Or are they better than those that do since they are not of Adams blood line and therefore not subject to original sin? Or maybe they are all going to hell because the promises in the bible were to Adams decendants?

JohnR7 · Jan 3, 2003

Originally posted by LewisWildermuth
Okay... So are you saying that the 80% of Europeans that do not have this gene are somehow less than human? Or are they better than those that do since they are not of Adams blood line and therefore not subject to original sin? Or maybe they are all going to hell because the promises in the bible were to Adams decendants?

Underhill feels the 8000 year old people who were into agriculture were more advanced then the 30,000 year old hunter gathers.

The Bible does seem to be clear that sin entered into the world though Adam. So maybe it is a mixed blessing.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--

There are lots of bones out there that are older then 8000 years old. So there must have been death in this old world, before Adam sinned. But the Bible seems to say there was no death as a result of sin, before Adam came along.

Romans 5:15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.

Death though sin, spread to all mankind. But also, though Jesus all can inherit and receive eternal life.

Romans 5:18 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

 

 

JohnR7 · Jan 3, 2003

Originally posted by lucaspa
God hasn't chosen to "soften our hearts".  

The same thing that will soften one persons heart, will harden another persons heart. Just like a scoffer will drive some people away from God with their skeptism, but for others their mockery will drive them in closer to God.

It is the same thing with hard times and adversity. When difficult times come, some people seek after God all the more. But others will turn angry and bitter and be driven further away from God.

Nathan Poe · Jan 3, 2003

Originally posted by JohnR7
There is evidence, because here it is almost 3500 years later and the bush is still there. Also, if you want you can climb the 4000 steps up Mount Sinai and see where Moses went to speak with God. It is no wonder that he lived to be 120 and was strong right up to his departure, having to climb up that mountain everytime he wanted to talk to God. There might be a lesson in there for us.

http://www.geographia.com/egypt/sinai/burningbush.htm

http://www.geographia.com/egypt/sinai/mtsinai.htm

Did you read these links?

Regarding the first one:

"According the oldest monastic tradition, this chapel sits atop the roots of the same Biblical bush "that burned with fire, and was not consumed" (Exodus 3:2) when God spoke to Moses for the first time."

Well, I suppose "The oldest monastic tradition" is proof enough for some people, but is it the real burning bush?

The second link:

"But this is the mountain where God spoke to Moses. That, at least, is the overwhelming belief, and the belief itself has drawn pilgrims for over a thousand years. Although no archeological evidence of Moses' presence on the mountain exists, there are abundant relics of faith throughout the eons."

Emphasis mine. Well, there you have it, proof by lack of evidence.

Yes, the Bible is 100% accurate Historically, Scientifically, and Theologically. In order to get to absolute 0 you have to get past Planck time, 10^-43 seconds where you find all the fire of the universe. A very intense heat. Do you think your work can survive a test of fire like that. Double: tried and tested: "Refined as silver is refined and tested as gold is tested."

I have no idea what you're referring to here. And the smart money says, neither do you.

 

I just saw a post on that yesterday. Come on, I have my own work to do, don't ask me to repeat the work of someone else.

Especially if it's wrong.

The archaeological evidence is there. The walls fell down. What are you trying to say, the archologiest came up with a different time frame then the Bible?   Do you want to talk about acheology or Biology?

Ooooh... the walls fell down. Congratulations, you've proven one historical fact (which was never in dispute in the first place) from the Bible.

One down, 6,295,415 to go.

Give it up and join us here in the real world. You don't go to infidels to learn about theology or the Bible.

Sure you do. how else can you test an idea except for going to it's opposite?

It's called Reductio Ad Absurdum. To prove an idea true, assume that it's negation is true, draw conclusions, and look for a logical contadiction. The problem is that Infidels has no logical contradiction, whereas your particular brand of Christianity has hundreds that need to be explained away.

At least clonaid has Doctors and Phd's involved in their organization. What do the infidels claim to be experts at? Metaphysical Naturalism. So how does that qualify them to comment on the Bible or theology?

It does give them a leg up in discussing reality, which the Bible claims to be an authority on.

They would know about as much about theology as a Biologist would. Talk about the blind leading the blind. Why do you waste my time with stuff like this? If you want to do the Romper Room thing let me know, we can grab the kids and go to the park to play. 

Now John, no need to go all Ad Hominem just because your position has been refuted. Play nice. 

Now John, rather than beat the dead horse any more, how about you get back on the topic you started in the first place? (That would be Darwin, in case you've forgotten.)

sulphur · Jan 4, 2003

How can you call an agnostic a rebel just because I am looking for some emperical proof?

sulphur · Jan 4, 2003

Oh I forgot to ask you ,what is planck time.I have used something similar in dealing with black body radiation.

Hector Medina · Jan 4, 2003

I voted 0%

Poor C. Darwin was just confused by satan as many scientists are today.

However,I believe he was still a christian(theistic evolutionist) and did get saved.

God Bless,
In Christ,

Hector

100% of Scientists do not believe Darwin

How right and accurate was Darwin?

I believe Darwin was right and accurate 100% of the time.

I believe Darwin was right and accurate 2/3 of the time.

I believe Darwin was right and accurate 1/3 of the time.

I believe Darwin was right and accurate 0% of the time.

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