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Split Rock

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Everyone is trying to tell you there is NO GOAL to evolution, or NO "10" as you (again, I ask who "we" is) define it. Therefore, it is impossible to explain to you what mechanism defines what "10" is!

For example, scientifically, we cannot say that Man was the goal of evolution among the primates. Some theistic evolutionists may believe this, but that is beyond science or the mechanisms of evolution.

To reassert your erroneous question is not to defend it.
 
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L'Anatra

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Being that this thread (and all others you have created) is arguing against a strawman version of the Theory of Evolution, it has not been successful.

You truly do not understand the theory, its purpose, or its usefulness. This isn't a denegration, it is a fact. It is you who needs to save face.
 
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L'Anatra

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Colossians said:
Those are not and never were commonly accepted concepts of biological evolution.
And Elvis never wore white jump suits.
Yes he did.

And "less complex", "more complex", "primitive", and "ultimate goal" have never had anything to do with evolution. Wherever the hell you get your misinformation from, you're going to need to stop spouting it in this forum.

I would suggest that--if you're going to continue to lie blatantly--you at least read about the actual Theory of Evolution. I'm sick of hearing about the false one you have concocted in your mind.
 
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lucaspa

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Can you quote from any evolutionary textbook that such a claim is made?

Even if the arm did not exist or evolve, the concept would still exist as an absolute.
So their doctrine is built upon an underlying tautology: things are the way they are because they make sense that way.
This is actually a combination of Plato's (or is it Aristotle's?) "perfect forms" and the idea the designs in organisms are there because they are "good" designs. Both are creationist ideas and formed a basis of the theory of Special Creation that Darwin overthrew! You are still working from the old "top down" philosophy that existed before Darwin. Darwin turned that upside down and showed that design was built from the bottom-up, in response to contingent circumstances. There is no "required place in the scheme of things". If the "arm" did not exist, then it wouldn't. The variations that were selected from to make the "arm" are contingent. They might not have appeared, in which case there would be no "arm"!

He has to therefore tell us where this '10' came from.
The creationist has to tell us what is a "good" design before he can claim that organisms are good designs. Good luck!
 
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lucaspa

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Calm down. Talk about the ideas and not the person. The statements may be falsehoods, but don't make it personal by calling Colossians a "liar".

Now, since Colossians claims these concepts are part of evolution, let's have him quote from a recent evolutionary biology textbook to demonstrate that to us. He should be able to do that.

I will correct one thing: evolutionists talking about natural selection do talk about "primitive" and "derived" characteristics. However, "primitive" there has a very specific meaning: it is the ancestral, less specialized trait.
 
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Logic

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Aduro Amnis said:
What is the Theory of Creationism ?
The Earth and universe were created 6000-7000 years ago by God, all "kinds" of life including humans were created at roughly the same time and no new "kinds" have emerged, though they have gone extinct due to a global flood which happened 4,400 years ago, which explains where layers of strata, most geological features, and most importantly, fossils came from.

See also: Falsified Hypothesis
 
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lucaspa

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Physics_guy said:
I can't believe you guys are even trying with to have a discussion with this troll.
Speaking for myself, I'm just trying to post the correct information for the lurkers.

Once again, discuss the ideas, not the person. Colossians' personal imperfections, if any, are not the subject. The subject is the ideas he posted. Are they accurate portrayals of evolution? If not, why not? If you stick to that, you'll be happier.
 
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lucaspa

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Aduro Amnis said:
No I don't want the Hypothesis I want the THEORY.
Logic gave you the shorthand version of the theory of creationism. That he called it a "hypothesis" is simply semantics. There's no hard and fast line between hypothesis and theory. http://www.christianforums.com/t125211

As Logic said, the theory was falsified by 1831. What we have today is a group of people who, for emotional reasons, won't accept that it is falsified.
 
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warispeace

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I find myself reminded of Don Quixote, bravely tilting at windmills and calling them giants.

Onward, Rozinante!
 
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L'Anatra

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You're right, lucaspa. Perhaps I was too free with my words.

The thing is, we all know he's been told the concepts are not a part of evolution. Yet he continues to parrot them. To me, that constitutes "lying." At the same time, the ad hominem attack was likely not required.

"Primitive" in the sense that Colossians is using it never has had anything to do with the Theory of Evolution.
 
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Physics_guy

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Once again, discuss the ideas, not the person. Colossians' personal imperfections, if any, are not the subject. The subject is the ideas he posted. Are they accurate portrayals of evolution? If not, why not? If you stick to that, you'll be happier.

The OP is so hopelessly addled by poor understanding that there is little that can be done to correct it. Furthermore, the post is simple sophistry and attempts to "win" a debate by confusing pseudo intellectual rambling. Colossian can only "win" by so frustrating anyone willing to actually write out a response, as he has in this thread already. He is the very definition of a troll and this thread is nothing more than a sophists (poorly laid) trap.

I say call a spade a spade.
 
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Nathan Poe

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Of course the trap is poorly laid because Col directed his OP towards an forum well-learned in evolutionary theory. Imagine if he had tried to pull a Hovind and tote this nonsense to an unknowing audience?

EDITED TO ADD: I'm going to copyright the phrase "Pulling a Hovind." I want a dollar every time someone says it.
 
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RoboMastodon

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Nonono, you are right only partially. See the problems with evilutionits and their man-made theorys is that it is that the intrinsic manifestation of the ultimate utilitity is incontigent with the nature of such manifestation, it is neither possible, nor contrivable. From ontological empiricism, it is known that it is the result of an unequivocally invalid weltanschauung and it fails, miserably and consistently, as a aphorisitic definition of life. It claims is a theory for life, however, it fails at life for the veracity of such a formulation is, as aforementioned, is incontingent with its immediate and meta-immediate epistomological implications. Evilution is false, both contingently and metaphysically.

Now since evilutionist are dum and stupid, let's dumb it down for them:
Let us use
to represent the wavefunction for the evolution state of an individual with time t.
Let us use the LaPlace Transform
to represent the evolution of the system with a vector parametrization of s.
Let us use
to represent the tensorial manifold which drives evilutionary geometry.
Let us use
to represent the 4-vector renormalization of the evilutionary dichotomy that stems from the nature of its manifestation.



(The evilutionist, realizes there is something missing in his reasoning at this point, but not really wanting to find out what, immediately invokes his higher-than-usual evolved thought-blocking ability, and declares proudly but irrelevantly: "PIZZA!".)

Since the dawn of the proto-existentialist, it has been unbiquitously pellucid that the entrenched ontology is redolent of the disestablishmentarianism that is this gnomic representation. blah blah blah blah philosophy blah ergo, concordantly, vis-a-vis, aifjoegklrgaerlkgjsafda ls;kjg aglaerk jgaer g Therefore, evilution is false.
 
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PhantomLlama

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Physics_guy said:
Furthermore, the post is simple sophistry and attempts to "win" a debate by confusing pseudo intellectual rambling.
I propose a law governing the content of posts, the CF Principle.

P = S + T(rl)

where
P = poster's self image (pretension coefficient)
S = Actual substance of argument
and T(rl) = A + O + r

where
A = ad hominem
O = obsucrantism
and r = pseudophilosophy.
 
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