1 Timothy 4:1-3

Symes · Mar 1, 2004

Andre

It has nothing to do with any present religion Symes, there will be a world religion instituted by the anti-Christ that will bring false peace on earth, I'm pretty sure it isn't the RCC, nor the SDA church. It's something that will make Jews and Muslims happy for 3 and 1/2 years so we know that Jesus is not a part of it's doctrine.

I believe I will be far from here when that happens so I'm not really worried about it.

You may well be much closer than you think. You are right in say the anti-christ will be world wide and that it is not the SDA Church. I cannot find anywhere in Scripture to say it will be 3 1/2 years.

Andre · Mar 1, 2004

Symes said:
Andre

You may well be much closer than you think. You are right in say the anti-christ will be world wide and that it is not the SDA Church. I cannot find anywhere in Scripture to say it will be 3 1/2 years.

The abomination of desolation will happen halfway thru the Tribulation, and we know that the Tribulation is 7 years long. It's the last week of Daniel that hasn't happened yet.

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Mar 1, 2004

Symes said:
Andre

You may well be much closer than you think. You are right in say the anti-christ will be world wide and that it is not the SDA Church. I cannot find anywhere in Scripture to say it will be 3 1/2 years.

There is no one-world religion Symes, not one at all, so the verses in question don't relate. The passage in Daniel is not related to the passage in 1 Timothy, they are referencing different things. I do not think they reference the Catholic church at all but if you insist we will keep pointing out how they reference the SDA church just as easily and with less conjecture.

Symes · Mar 2, 2004

There is no one-world religion Symes, not one at all, so the verses in question don't relate. The passage in Daniel is not related to the passage in 1 Timothy, they are referencing different things. I do not think they reference the Catholic church at all but if you insist we will keep pointing out how they reference the SDA church just as easily and with less conjecture.

flesh99

I think you had better spend the morning doing some Bible reading. It seems from this passage that there will be a power that enforces it's will on people that is world wide. Where do you plan to hide to get away from this power? It certainly is NOT the SDA Church that is going to do such a thing.

Revelation 13:11-18
"And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Mar 2, 2004

The verses in ! Timothy refer to a great apostasy and not the same event in Revelation. In fact most scholars hold that the great apostasy precedes the anti-christ. But even by your own posting you have ruled out the Catholic church, well done sir!

deu58 · Mar 2, 2004

hello symes

In your own words you have stated that" There will be" which means it is not yet.
you are right that it is coming, look around and you can see it coming, The key word is around, not just in one direction,

if you want to talk about changing laws and times How about church's that teach the resurrection never happened? are embracing same sex marriage? Think there is nothing wrong with a little mysticsm in the church? believe Genesis is a myth? Noah is a Myth to. They all claim to be protestant. Catholicism teaches none or these things

yours in Christ
deu58

Andre · Mar 2, 2004

I believe that what's predicted in 1 Tim 4 has been already happening for a while, amd it's a sign that we are living really close to the end times, the prophecy in Daniel and in Revelation that you quoted doesn't have anything to do with the apostasy, they are specific prophecies about the anti-Christ, and not about the religious situation on earth.

1 Tim 4 - False religions/apostasy before the Tribulation.

Daniel 11/Rev 13 - detailed prophecies about the anti-Christ during the Tribulation

Symes · Mar 2, 2004

Andre

I believe that what's predicted in 1 Tim 4 has been already happening for a while, amd it's a sign that we are living really close to the end times,

Totally agree.

deu58 · Mar 2, 2004

Symes said:
Andre

Totally agree.

hello Andre,

It started at the cross. The Cross is the beginning of the last days. We see it in 1Cor 1
where Paul rebukes the church for the divisions that were found among them, The beginning of denominatioalism

yours in Christ
deu58

Andre · Mar 3, 2004

deu58 said:
hello Andre,

It started at the cross. The Cross is the beginning of the last days. We see it in 1Cor 1
where Paul rebukes the church for the divisions that were found among them, The beginning of denominatioalism

yours in Christ
deu58

Makes sence, false doctrines started to form early in the history of the church, that's why Paul and other apostles had to wright so many epistles refuting false doctrine. But I noticed that it's getting worse, there are so many religions and cults, and groups today that are forming all the time and even though they usually don't last too long, their number is increasing, things like spiritism, witchcraft, Islam, hinduism, budism, this thing were heard of in the past, but now they are everywhere, and those are the obsious ones, the problem is that it's contaminating the church, and there are groups that are preaching a different, ussualy water down Gospel, they are making people walk out of church feeling ok about their lifestyle, acepting homosexuality as an ok lifestyle,and things of that nature. Or worse, they are adding burdens that are not necessary to make people fell they are doing fine because they are doing those things, when what they really need is a change of heart, they need to change on the inside, not on the outside only, they make them focus on those things when they should be looking at Jesus for their source of righteoussness.

deu58 · Mar 3, 2004

Hi Andre
That is why I told Symes to look around and not just look at one denomination.
The church is under attack from inside and out. all ready people are coming out and forming home church's because they can not stand what they are seeing in the main stream church's.

most likely in our life times we will hear the official call come out of her my people, this has nothing to do with just one denomination. It is a call to come out of the corrupted world church system.

As economic and political systems are slowly melding together so to are the world religioans and denominations moving towards oneness,

Contrary to popular belief, not all roads lead to God. Also you touched on another important issue, We all know that taking away from Gods Word is forbidden but also is adding to it, Just because a denomination has made the requirements to live a life more pleasing to God by adding more strict rules and demanding adherence to these rules does not make that denomination more holy,

In fact if adding rules and ordinances pleased God, Jesus would have come praising the Pharisee's rather than condemning them

yours in Christ
deu58

Symes · Mar 9, 2004

That is why I told Symes to look around and not just look at one denomination.
The church is under attack from inside and out. all ready people are coming out and forming home church's because they can not stand what they are seeing in the main stream church's.

most likely in our life times we will hear the official call come out of her my people, this has nothing to do with just one denomination. It is a call to come out of the corrupted world church system.

As economic and political systems are slowly melding together so to are the world religioans and denominations moving towards oneness,

Contrary to popular belief, not all roads lead to God. Also you touched on another important issue, We all know that taking away from Gods Word is forbidden but also is adding to it, Just because a denomination has made the requirements to live a life more pleasing to God by adding more strict rules and demanding adherence to these rules does not make that denomination more holy,

In fact if adding rules and ordinances pleased God, Jesus would have come praising the Pharisee's rather than condemning them

yours in Christ
deu58

Revelation 18:4&5 says to come out.

"Then I heard another voice from heaven say:
"Come out of her, my people,
so that you will not share in her sins,
so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
5for her sins are piled up to heaven,
and God has remembered her crimes."

Read the previous verses and find out just why they need to come out.

"1After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven. He had great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his splendor. 2With a mighty voice he shouted:
"Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!
She has become a home for demons
and a haunt for every evil[1] spirit,
a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird.
3For all the nations have drunk
the maddening wine of her adulteries.
The kings of the earth committed adultery with her,
and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries."

These are not to be taken lightly.

This is serious stuff.

aanjt · Mar 11, 2004

Symes said:
flesh99

Interesting that you make that claim. If you follow Christ you belong to the seed of Abraham. Then keep the food laws as all of his seed were told to keep them. You have no exuse now.

Except Christ said it is not what goes in you that makes us unclean, but what comes out. Christ said that whatever we put in our mouths goes to our stomach and out the body, but what comes out of our mouths comes from the heart and lists sins such as adultery, murder, slander. There were reasons not to eat certain foods. People died from bacteria and such because of improper storage and cooking that they did not have. If they ate it, they died. Today, we now know about bacteria and such that can kill us if we do not cook food properly and store it properly and we have the places to store meat in its proper place. They are called refrigerators and freezers. We also can check the temperature of the meats to see if they are cooked all the way through. Red meat, we really do not have to worry about, but others we do, so it is imperative that we cook those all the way through.

Plus, why do you think the Pharasees were so mad at what Christ said? Read 2 Maccabees to find out. A family was murdered because they refused to eat pork and it did not make some Jews very happy to hear Christ say that it is not what you put in your mouth that makes you unclean but what comes out of it.

Yours in Christ,
Jen

Symes · Mar 11, 2004

Plus, why do you think the Pharasees were so mad at what Christ said? Read 2 Maccabees to find out. A family was murdered because they refused to eat pork and it did not make some Jews very happy to hear Christ say that it is not what you put in your mouth that makes you unclean but what comes out of it.

Yours in Christ,
Jen

Now that you have confirmed that the Jews would not eat pork do you think that Jesus would now go and tell them to eat it.

This is getting a bit off track from what the thread is about but still interesting.

Andre · Mar 11, 2004

Symes said:
Now that you have confirmed that the Jews would not eat pork do you think that Jesus would now go and tell them to eat it.

This is getting a bit off track from what the thread is about but still interesting.

Yes, the same way the He would have told them not to sacrifice anymals anymore after He was crucified.

Colossians 2
16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--
17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

If you tell me I'm sinning by eating certain food you are judging me.

Symes · Mar 12, 2004

Yes, the same way the He would have told them not to sacrifice anymals anymore after He was crucified.

Colossians 2
16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--
17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

If you tell me I'm sinning by eating certain food you are judging me.

The Jews did not start to eat pork then and still do not eat it now.

I would not judge you, God will do that.

Andre · Mar 12, 2004

Symes said:
The Jews did not start to eat pork then and still do not eat it now.

I would not judge you, God will do that.

They also didn't acept Christ then and still don't acept Him now.

Symes · Mar 13, 2004

1 Timothy 4:1-3

Instructions to Timothy

1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.

Click to expand...

As much as I want to respond about the foods issue to Andre I feel it is getting off topic. We have been through all that and should try to keep on the topic a bit more.

This is about not allowing people to get married and stopping people from eating certain clean food.

Now there is only to my knowledge one Church that does both.

1 Timothy 4:1-3

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