1 Samuel 16:14

[HopeBforJC]

14 Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him.

So I heard a sermon today that was centered around this scripture...well..this passage...but I couldn't help but dwell on this scripture the whole time while trying to listen to the sermon.

There are actually two separate parts of this scripture that bothered me. The first half---Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul--I have always been taught that god never leaves us. "I will never leave you nor forsake you"....And I'm sure this (the spirit of the lord leaving someone) has occurred several times in the bible. Let us take the example of Samson. The story where he keeps telling Delilah these things that should make him weak and lose his power, and then finally when he tells her that all she has to do is cut his hair then he will lose his power. So she does and he does lose his power-- Judges 16:20 "He awoke from his sleep and thought, "I'll go out as before and shake myself free." But he did not know that the LORD had left him." It seems apparent to me that my thinking that the Lord doesn't leave us is a bit off.

Then there is the second part---and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him.---An EVIL spirit?? What? Wow...I didn't think God was evil. What's up with that?

Then also there is Isaiah 45:7--I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Maybe it's just me, but my thinking of who God is is definitely NOT evil. Everything but evil..so what is this?

 

[Alphadux]

1. Perhaps we could look at the Spirit of the Lord leaving because the promise "I will never leave you nor forsake you" was given by Christ, who had not come yet. I admit that's a rather uneducated reason. If someone else comes up with something better, listen to them.

2. The evil spirit of the LORD could be that the LORD sent an evil spirit, not that the LORD Himself was evil.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

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Perhaps we could look at the Spirit of the Lord leaving because the promise "I will never leave you nor forsake you" was given by Christ, who had not come yet. I admit that's a rather uneducated reason. If someone else comes up with something better, listen to them.

This is precisely right. Part of the miracle of Christ and his resurrection is the outpouring of the Spirit on Pentecost. Before this, only prophets, priests, and kings had the Spirit of the Lord upon them (through oiled annointing), and it was not necessarily perminant. David's cry 'Cast me not away from thy presence, O Lord, and take not thy holy Spirit from me' was a cry to maintain his kingship in the midst of his sin.

So the revokation of the Spirit was Saul is part of God's ending of his kingship in favor of the new and coming king, David.

As for the second part- there are plenty of interpretations, but suffice it to say that the spirit sent out is described as evil, not the Lord, and it may be 'teleologically evil,' that is, evil (harmful) in its purpose toward Saul, not absolutely evil.

 

[Fireinfolding]

I was looking into this sometime back, I wish I could find my study, I recall "parts" that Im throwing in here (nothing in full) but I do see a consistent patern threaded throughout OT and NT. I got to dig for the entire thing, as it shows all sides of the judgments and recompense, here I thought I'd just show (in part) the one side.

This is said throughout scripture, notice what He will do.

Hosea 4:9 I will punish them for their ways, and reward for their doings.

"Where" is everyone in this verse recompensed?

Prov 11:31 Behold, the righteous shall be recompensed IN THE EARTH: much more the wicked and the sinner.

The Lord says...

Ezek 11:21 ... I will recompense their way UPON their heads, saith the Lord GOD.


If he recompenses their own WAY upon our heads (and if it be an evil way) what better to do the job then an "evil spirit". Makes sense to me.

This is exactly whats stated, we cant ignore the obvious here

Roms 2:9 TRIBULATION and ANGUISH, UPON every ~SOUL~ of man that DOETH EVIL, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; (Hosea 12:2)... according to ones doings.

An evil spirit was sent to "torment Saul". Seems (to me anyway) comparible to being handed over to "the tormentors" or even a "Spirit of judgment" in being "measured back to". Jesus said, likewise will my heavenly Father do to you if you forgive not your brother from your heart.

1Peter 3:10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile


Psalm 109:18 As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it COME ~INTO~ HIS BOWELS .

Psalm 94:2 Lift up thyself, THOU JUDGE OF~ THE EARTH~: render a reward to the proud.

Isaiah 65:2... I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense INTO their BOSOM,

Do ALL FEEL this evil?

Ecc 8:5 Whoso ((( keepeth the commandment )))) shall FEEL no evil thing and a wise man's heart discerneth both time and judgment

The evil Spirit was sent to TROUBLE Saul

1Sam 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an EVIL spirit FROM the Lord TROUBLED HIM.

Is this consistent even in the NT?

2Thes 1:6 Seeing it is ((( a righteous thing with God ))) to recompense tribulation TO THEM that TROUBLE you;

Can one bring this on themselves?

Prov 11:17 The merciful man doeth good unto his own soul: but he that is CRUEL TROUBLETH his OWN FLESH.

I see this as consistent throughout scripture.

1Sam 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD TROUBLED HIM.

Was there "relief" for Saul? Yes

1Sam 16:23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

But the picture can't be plainer when it comes to showing a "hidden agenda" concerning Saul

1Sam 18:10 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand

I think theres a CLUE concerning that "Javelin"

1Sam 19:9 And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, AS he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand:

and David played with his hand.

David was NOT feeling the same thing that was coming on Saul (inwardly). Yet Saul (as the picture shows) had something up his sleeve (or rather an intent) expressedly implied by what was in his hand ( a javelin obviously)

Ecc 8:5 Whoso keepeth the commandment shall feel no evil thing: and a wise man's heart discerneth both time and judgment.

I dont think the commandment is kept while your holding onto a JAVELIN!!

This post is a mess (sorry) I copy pasted from "notes" rather then the study itself.

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[Bubba1301]

In the OT the Lord would rest upon certain people or places for a time and then leave. In the OT his earthly "home" <for lack of better adj> was the Tabernacle and even more specific, the Holy of Holies.

It was not until after Jesus that God then dwelt within people - not because he couldn't but because he chose not to... we were not yet cleansed by the sacrifice of Jesus. Once Jesus washed away our sins we were then "clean" and ready to accept God within us... until that point God simply chose to rest upon people.

 

[plmarquette]

...go to proverbs 6.18-24 ... strife , gossip , offense ...

why did God leave & when good leaves _____ shows up
see : Matthew 12.45

Saul had fits of carnality , with david's popularity with God and the people ... lost his throne , anointing , and life because of his pride , temper, and bad attitude ...